Count Burks Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 After seeing all the commotion circulating on these boards about the recent PBR introduction I decided to have a look to see what all the screaming is about. I use Firestorm Viewer normally but for this occasion I have used the normal Second Life viewer latest version. I have a decent computer, desktop, good graphics card enough ram. Usually I do not write about these type of updates related to graphics such a EEP etc... However this one is pushing the limits I think with what you are presenting to your customers. Pushing the limits as in, the update to the rendering engine is making 3D models which looked perfectly fine before, look just nasty, cheap and ugly. The word NASTY really sums up my impression of your PBR update. Nasty as in extremely hard to look at. I have adjusted the graphics in the preferences panel, experimented with brightness, even tried some Windlight settings adjustments. Turning off shadows and all kinds of features attempting to get some sort of normal views. Turning off transparency on the water shader in an attempt to make the ocean look presentable. The ocean shader looks like cheap plastic. The hardness of light on objects is making them look horrible. Like you have increased the contrast slider all the way up with your lighting. The terrain textures became way too dark. There are now glitches with alpha textures that are being used in the water to create special colors in the ocean. Beautiful looking waterfalls with rock formations created by Alex Bader look horrific. It is like a lot of the content in world is now sprinkled with some type of plastic coating or varnish. If this is your idea of attracting new users or upgrading your platform I think you are in for an awakening. Things like sunlight beams in trees, textures on buildings are looking filthy. I do not know what your PBR team has been thinking but I do not find you should present this to your customers. I do not want plastic ocean or objects being set to high contrast levels. I had to log out because it gave me a headache just to look at this. Also @Linden Lab when I purchase landscaping Objects because they look good I expect these Object to continue to look as when I buy them. What you are presenting with your PBR update is low quality. You are either in need of much better programmers or a completely new gaming engine. The only slight improvement I noticed was the sunset and sunrise view settings which looked somewhat better. Still that is a very meager compared to everything else which has been damaged because of this update. I am sure your creators are really mad to see what you have done to their work. I hope you will fix this. Nothing should look any different from before UNLESS content creators and users make specific usage of GLTF textures in their creations. A quality assurance manager is not in the company? 9 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 The "this is terrible, my Intel 4004 doesn't work anymore!" thread already exists. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Burks Posted June 24 Author Share Posted June 24 (edited) I have an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB/PCIe/SSE2 can render this which should be more than plenty to handle Second Life graphics. Left is the 3GB version right is the 6GB version. It has nothing to do with my PC. Edited June 24 by Count Burks 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Burks Posted June 24 Author Share Posted June 24 Somebody just posted this image in another thread. Orange floor, orange skin, look at the arms of the woman they have a plastic shine on them. The hair of the boy, plastic shine on it. The effects of the sunlight on the ship, plastic shine all over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 14 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: The "this is terrible, my Intel 4004 doesn't work anymore!" thread already exists. the least, really thé least .. what they had to do is deliver a few acceptable replacements for settings (environment) with it. The way they dropped this is absurd. When i rezz i look orange and weird colored parts, when i change that it looks acceptable, not good yet. When i log in on non pbr i look absurd again but now in opposite direction. Lightning is weird, indoors i need sunglasses, outdoor a guide dog because all is so dark. Pushing a large part of your citizens into a noob stage without any serious explaination is pretty dumb. Excited praise posts new new new wonderful, great and super ... good lord, i swear we (SL) are on the counter again for a sale... i'm sure about that. 10 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) Shoulder Devil: "Aren't you going to say anything about the profile picture?" Shoulder Angel: "We are going to say NOTHING about the profile picture. ABSOLUTELY. NOTHING." Edited June 24 by Theresa Tennyson 3 2 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 15 minutes ago, Count Burks said: Somebody just posted this image in another thread. Orange floor, orange skin, look at the arms of the woman they have a plastic shine on them. The hair of the boy, plastic shine on it. The effects of the sunlight on the ship, plastic shine all over. With minimal adjustments to your eep, all of this is easily remedied. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Heartsong Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 And your exposure setting too. I went down from 1.6 to 0.6 and that solved most of my issues with lighting and brightness. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 42 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: the least, really thé least .. what they had to do is deliver a few acceptable replacements for settings (environment) with it. The way they dropped this is absurd. When i rezz i look orange and weird colored parts, when i change that it looks acceptable, not good yet. When i log in on non pbr i look absurd again but now in opposite direction. Lightning is weird, indoors i need sunglasses, outdoor a guide dog because all is so dark. Pushing a large part of your citizens into a noob stage without any serious explaination is pretty dumb. Excited praise posts new new new wonderful, great and super ... good lord, i swear we (SL) are on the counter again for a sale... i'm sure about that. This. And yes, this is true as well: 35 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said: With minimal adjustments to your eep, all of this is easily remedied. The problem being that many people have no idea what EEP even is, yet alone how to adjust it. (And the documentation for it is AWFUL or nonexistent.) 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: This. And yes, this is true as well: The problem being that many people have no idea what EEP even is, yet alone how to adjust it. (And the documentation for it is AWFUL or nonexistent.) All of us that have been in SL for more than a minute know that LL is terrible at documentation and communication, and it's always been up to us to look this stuff up. OP here is not a newbie has been in SL since almost day one. He should 100% know better than to post another stupid thread about the same easily remedied (with very little research) topic that's already being beaten to death. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 GTX 980 TI here. Performance is exactly as I expect it to be with the PBR changes - I am going to need to get a newer GPU as soon as I can. not just for SL either - it has been on my todo list for some time. A 1060? Seriously? Making the claim that it should be able to handle what is being thrown at it SL wise, with PBR? And using a prerendered testbed as your benchmark? No. Just no. nVidia XX60 series cards are just barely above the straight up mid-line cards that one needs for basic gaming in most of the older generations. That is the reality you've just pretended does not exist. Further, Second Life does not use Direct X. It uses OpenGL - you know, that universal setup that worked very well across all platforms just about (until Apple decided to deprecate it on their platform). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, Count Burks said: orange skin "The lights here make me look orange!" - paraphrased quote 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Redstar Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 as creators catch up and make textures for PBR along with new skins and such I think will just may have to live with this for a while. Use non PBR viewers for now until you have to upgrade 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Why are you starting an identical thread (with the same whining, mind you) to the one @Paul Hexem linked for you? I find it sort of hilarious how you do almost the exact whining here as that thread's OP did. I find it extremely juicy how someone here had to put you in your place when you posted a link to DirectX renderings while SL doesn't use that. I'm not going to repeat much of what i said in the other thread here. For 2 reasons. You probably didn't read that other thread, or you did and took absolutely nothing away from it. I saw an 980Ti being mentioned and you say you have a 1060. Hilariously i have both the exact cards in 2 other machines. I did mention in the other thread that i use the 980Ti as a test machine for Firestorm Beta's and it's fairly capable of it if you adjust some settings. Interestingly, the 980Ti is better then the 1060. see > https://technical.city/en/video/GeForce-GTX-980-Ti-vs-GeForce-GTX-1060-6-GB So, yeah. Time to upgrade your machine (and profile pic) Like i said in the other thread, this is expected human behavior to reject something new, something that "alters" the things you are used to. I explained why i welcome this change and why it is needed. Go read it. Pro Tip: quit while you're ahead, you're embarrassing yourself here. Also, don't "fork" still active threads. It really throws the conversation all over the place. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said: Why are you starting an identical thread (with the same whining, mind you) to the one @Paul Hexem linked for you? I find it sort of hilarious how you do almost the exact whining here as that thread's OP did. I find it extremely juicy how someone here had to put you in your place when you posted a link to DirectX renderings while SL doesn't use that. I'm not going to repeat much of what i said in the other thread here. For 2 reasons. You probably didn't read that other thread, or you did and took absolutely nothing away from it. I saw an 980Ti being mentioned and you say you have a 1060. Hilariously i have both the exact cards in 2 other machines. I did mention in the other thread that i use the 980Ti as a test machine for Firestorm Beta's and it's fairly capable of it if you adjust some settings. Interestingly, the 980Ti is better then the 1060. see > https://technical.city/en/video/GeForce-GTX-980-Ti-vs-GeForce-GTX-1060-6-GB So, yeah. Time to upgrade your machine (and profile pic) Like i said in the other thread, this is expected human behavior to reject something new, something that "alters" the things you are used to. I explained why i welcome this change and why it is needed. Go read it. Pro Tip: quit while you're ahead, you're embarrassing yourself here. Also, don't "fork" still active threads. It really throws the conversation all over the place. Because...reasons apparently.. lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polenth Yue Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) Though as a reminder before the lock, a lot of stuff seems shinier to some people because they didn't turn on advanced lighting. So for anyone in that situation, your avatar always looked like shiny plastic, and your wood floors were always varnished and washed out by overly strong lights, because you couldn't see the shine. But most other people had it turned on, so you/your house always looked that bad. The upside is that now you can see it, so you can fix it. Edited June 24 by Polenth Yue 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: 2 hours ago, Count Burks said: orange skin "The lights here make me look orange!" - paraphrased quote What's wrong with orange skin? I like orange men... 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 8 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said: What's wrong with orange skin? I like orange men... I will resist the impulse to post an image of... T.. you know who. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmeliaJ08 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, Count Burks said: I have an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB/PCIe/SSE2 can render this which should be more than plenty to handle Second Life graphics. Left is the 3GB version right is the 6GB version. It has nothing to do with my PC. It is. I was just using the latest Firestorm on a 1060 6GB and it was fine. It was even connected by Thunderbolt so not even the ideal scenario! It's actually kinda crazy how well the old 1060 6GB holds up... it's actually enough. Edited June 24 by AmeliaJ08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, SpiritSparrow Skydancer said: I will resist the impulse to post an image of... T.. you know who. No idea what you're talking about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Marques Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) Anyone else desperately clinging to the pre-PBR versions of SL viewers? Edited June 24 by Clem Marques 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmeliaJ08 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said: Though as a reminder before the lock, a lot of stuff seems shinier to some people because they didn't turn on advanced lighting. So for anyone in that situation, your avatar always looked like shiny plastic, and your wood floors were always varnished and washed out by overly strong lights, because you couldn't see the shine. But most other people had it turned on, so you/your house always looked that bad. The upside is that now you can see it, so you can fix it. I have wondered that but I would assume someone with a 1060 would have ALM enabled already? who knows. The PBR viewers do have a different look, it can look kinda oversaturated on certain monitors? I don't think it's anything some minor tweaking of personal lighting couldn't deal with though and to be honest I feel the effect has lessened significantly since the earlier alphas I remember using. If it's something that is still there I don't notice it. Edited June 24 by AmeliaJ08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Clem Marques said: Anyone else desperately clinging to the pre-PBR versions of SL viewers? Absolutely not. I love PBR. Instead of blasting LL about PBR and telling them they did a bad job, try and actually learn how PBR works and what you can do with it. It's fairly powerful. Granted, old things may need to get an update, but so what? I have a neighbor in SL that has full bright non-modifiable trees that have been colored in light green. So, it has textures of trees AND is light green. they were bought this way because they are no mod. The avatar that owns them is 14 years old, the avatar that made them is 17 years old. Do you get where i'm going with this? Edited June 24 by CaithLynnSayes 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 14 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said: What's wrong with orange skin? I like orange men... That explains the expression in your profile picture! I always wondered. 🙂 I know you meant Oompa-Loompa's, right? Fun Fact: in the original book, Oompa-Loompa's were "black pygmies", not "orange"! https://theconversation.com/from-pygmies-to-puppets-what-to-do-with-roald-dahls-enslaved-oompa-loompas-in-modern-adaptations-166967 Edited June 24 by Love Zhaoying 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Burks Posted June 24 Author Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Katherine Heartsong said: And your exposure setting too. I went down from 1.6 to 0.6 and that solved most of my issues with lighting and brightness. Why should a new person who joins Second Life or any person installing a standard viewer get confronted with this plastic feast? Graphics need to look good as a standard. I always use Midday settings myself and it should look normal. The default graphics should look normal to anyone. I will repeat this from my original post Nothing should look any different from before UNLESS content creators and users make specific usage of GLTF textures in their creations. It should not be: Welcome to Second Life, our graphics look plastic and nasty ..... But if you go to your Preferences panel and then search under the graphics tab, and then you start to tweak exposure and then turn this off, and that, and switch this and 500 other settings .... and then you slap on this special Windlight setting, which you can find under the World menu under the Environment tab in the special lighting panel. Then and only then you will be able to somewhat have a less irritating experience with our product. 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now