Should the Stipend Be Increased to Adjust for Cost of Living?

[Porky Gorky]

20 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

the 50L ended 28th of may 2006

Wow, how do I not remember that? Oh yeah, weed.

I’ve also forgotten the names, password and emails of at least 5 other alts created before that date which is annoying.

Edited June 11 by Porky Gorky

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

LL could increase Land Impact again. After all, they have double prim regions, what is stopping them from giving us more to play with?

The double prim regions are still the same size and prim allowance as regular regions.  They just divvy it up differently.  Horizons has less available parcels on each region with roads/sidewalks and easements that are linden owned taking up the rest.

Edited June 11 by Rowan Amore

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Porky Gorky said:

Wow, how do I not remember that? Oh yeah, weed.

don't tell  .. it's in the little overview of stipends on that website i quoted earlier  

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Porky Gorky said:

I’ve also forgotten the names, password and emails of at least 5 other alts created before that date which is annoying.

if you still have the email active that you used, you can possibly recover them.

If you do have them on one and the same adress, you'll have to move them to another one once you recovered it, the system from recovery with email, sends the name that has been last moved, or signed up to that adress...

Edited June 11 by Alwin Alcott

[Luna Bliss]

7 hours ago, discussionbot said:

20 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Might be a good new thread to start. What could SL do to facilitate a move toward a more expansive type of consciousness not tied to the fear you highlight.

What does this mean?

Oh...nothing really major. In any world (virtual or RL), or within any project, there's ways to encourage more cooperation between people and less competition. When this dynamic is unbalanced toward excessive competition we facilitate more fear, strife and war-like behaviors that encourage unjust situations.  Thought I'd answer your question...but this really needs to be a topic for another thread.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/11/2024 at 2:33 AM, Alwin Alcott said:

400 is also a grandfathered stipend .. so i don't see any valid reason to let the 400/500 be what it is ..
The basic stipend of 50L also needs to raise..

There's an existing grandfathered $400 stipend? I didn't realize that. 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/11/2024 at 1:52 PM, Porky Gorky said:

Wow, how do I not remember that? Oh yeah, weed.

I’ve also forgotten the names, password and emails of at least 5 other alts created before that date which is annoying.

You could try filing a ticket but a) you risk unearthing accounts with huge bills on them you'll have to pay b) all their content might be gone c) they won't let you have the $500L week back.

"Just remember them the way they were."

[InnerCity Elf]

On 6/11/2024 at 11:12 AM, stlshayne said:

Have you been here lately? I feel I could start a "what color is the sky?" thread and have it go 28 pages before being closed for infighting. 

Yes! That's why I said I should've known! But I see far more potential for disagreement for a colour of the sky topic, plus side discussions of whether you meant the SL, RL or colour of both, and whether the spelling of colour and grey should be unified world-wildly, also, if the spelling of weather and whether should be simplified, while we're at it! 😄 

[Love Zhaoying]

On 6/10/2024 at 5:55 PM, Istelathis said:

Right now I have been using https://lumalabs.ai/genie?view=create

 

Most of the mesh things in these pictures, not the vegetation or trail though.  It takes a few seconds to generate the mesh and a low quality texture for them, right now it is full of flaws but it is definitely going to get better.  This site is free, so I imagine there are ones out there much more capable.

 

You can see faults in almost everything generated, such as this teddy bear, 

This wagon, and so on.  On OpenSim it only takes 1 Li, and doesn't impact my viewer so it doesn't bother me as much.  In SL though it is incredibly expensive when it comes to Li, so it definitely is not viable for SL... yet.  Perhaps for someone who wanted to have something generated for them and then make modifications to it.

I saw another of your posts on this, and missed that it DOES create content that works with SL (while being too high LI). Thanks for the info!

[Istelathis]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I saw another of your posts on this, and missed that it DOES create content that works with SL (while being too high LI). Thanks for the info!

I've been having a lot of fun with it, and becoming a little bit more familiar with Blender(I'm still horrible with it) trying to fix some of the mistakes in it.  

I did some work with removing some of the defects, trying to fix the eye, it was a bit of a chore for me since I am a noob with mesh, regardless it is a lot of fun, perhaps I will actually learn blender.  Still, I would much rather prefer building in SL.

 

 

In SL I was able to bring Teddy down to almost 3Li, I'm sure others could do much much better.

He is kind of big though, He is happily sitting by me in SL.  24 Linden spent on him, most definitely would probably be cheaper to find one on the marketplace that takes less Li, but this was fun.  Shrinking him down by what appears to be a third of the depicted size in the pic above, brought him down to 2 li.. meh, I'll let my kittycat play around with him for a while before removing him from my home.

A lot of what Genie creates, reminds me of older World of Warcraft graphics, not up to today's standards, but still I am pretty impressed.  There are so many flaws though that I doubt many people will be shifting over to it anytime soon, I think for the most part it is a fun toy.  Who knows where this sort of technology will be in another five years though, I imagine it is not going to be stagnant. 

Teddy was not rendered in high res, so the graphics are pretty low.  I ran it through genie, and this is what it shows on their site when rendered high res.

 

But yeah, leading back to the original reply in the thread I made, I do think it could possibly make Linden dollars less relevant in the future, I mean just typing in what you want and viola, in a few seconds it is there generated for you.  Who knows, perhaps at one point Linden Lab will actually host meshing services for a fee, providing additional subscription plans, and charging linden for each use.  

All of course speculating on my part.  

Edited June 13 by Istelathis

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

just typing in what you want and viola, in a few seconds it is there generated for you. 

/me types, "I want a handsome Pride-mate and a beautiful lioness!"

/me waits.

[VeeTach Littlething]

Personally, I would like to see larger private regions, keep the LI the same but give us more land.  A 2 x 2 size would be perfect. 

[Qie Niangao]

15 minutes ago, VeeTach Littlething said:

Personally, I would like to see larger private regions, keep the LI the same but give us more land.  A 2 x 2 size would be perfect. 

I'd support a product that spread a full region's Land Impact and avatar allotment across four regions (which is basically what Homesteads are, but instead make the constraints span all four regions), and it would be cool if they could offer them for a good price grouped together in the buyer's favored arrangement of four adjacent regions (more flexible than forcing them into a 2x2 shape).

What I never want the Lab wasting resources on is expanding the size of an individual region. For one thing, that would break tens of thousands of user scripts, and in obscure ways. It's the hideous kludge they did in OpenSim, but its okay there because they don't need to solve the real scalability problem of region crossings across thousands of adjacent regions (and there are so few users nothing really matters anyway). It would be much better if Lab developers could focus on fixing the big problems they've already identified with the current region-crossing mechanism.

There's a beginning of that work (specifically teleport improvements, but it's all related) that's been merged for inclusion in a planned release (not the one currently on RCs, but it's in the queue). What we really don't need is yet another distraction from advancing that work.

[Simo Vodopan]

I have always looked at premium as a scam. After doing the numbers I deduced that there is far more value in buying 2,500L worth of L$ than there is to use a premium account. Lets think about what you're really getting for 8.25$ a month compared to what you get for only a couple dollars extra: 300L stipend, some 512m plot of land, and gifts?

The way I see it, its all about the price to L ratio for me and that is alot more of a banger for your buck. You factor it in like this; the amount of Ls you get with just that purchase alone it can snowball as you save up between purchases. While 300L is a meager amount. Renting land and simply buying objects has been much cheaper in this way as I get more per dollar.

For private homes I can just get my own sim or parcel and enable the privacy barrier.

I can still buy land without the need of premium in some locations. With the exception of the mainland. I'll give them this one, this is a benefit yes as I love the mainland otherwise no.

Meanwhile the very basic level of premium for 5.50$ a month gets you a stipend of 150L. For 2.50$ you get 250L. Which is much cheaper. This is an overall net loss going through the premium option.

Access to premium areas. Its not like any other sandbox I've been to.

The signup bonus. Cool sure. Even-though, there again for 5.56$ you get 1,000L cheaper than paying 8.25$.

Exclusive gifts. Thats great until you realize many items in-world are cheaper or free and at better quality thanks to its residents.

For 20$ which is the highest tier of premium you can get 4500L for that.

The only real incentive I see with being premium is the expanded customer service benefits otherwise the rest don't out-weigh the costs.

I know I ripped hard into the premium membership here but something had to be said about it. This is what I've been doing, I buy 2,500L and pay rent for a 512m parcel thats only 1,400 every other week and still I gain a net profit and added benefits. Meanwhile my land has double prims giving me 702 to work with.

So yes, they really need to do something extra with the premium service to make it much more worthwhile for some of us here.

Edited June 13 by Simo Vodopan

[Ceka Cianci]

I came in  during July 2006.. I just missed getting the 500 a week by that much! \o/.

But got in just early enough to get the 400 a week, before they dropped it to 300.

All the rest after that are Spartans.. hehehe

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, Simo Vodopan said:

After doing the numbers I deduced that there is far more value in buying 2,500L worth of L$ than there is to use a premium account.

Not to dispute your conclusions, but I can't understand the arithmetic. What exchange rate are you using? I generally use 250 L$/US$ just for easy calculations, but this seems all over the place:

• "for 5.56$ you get 1,000L" would be an exchange rate of 180. So… is that $5.56 something other than just buying L$s?
• "For 20$ which is the highest tier of premium you can get 4500L" would be 225, which isn't great but it's at least comparable to the LindeX rate
• "For 2.50$ you get 250L. Which is much cheaper" is actually horrible, a rate of only 100 (even slightly worse than the stipend benefit of the "Plus" subscription, which is really only good for owning a little Mainland). Maybe just a typo?

Overall, as you say, Premium is mostly about the ability to buy Mainland and the bonus tier (which for standard Premium is 1024m² now, not 512, which is for the Plus subscription.) There's some stipend thrown in, and the grandfathered L$500/wk stipends are just barely cash-positive now, independent of the land benefits, but those ancient accounts can't do much to incentivize new subscribers.

I will say, besides the stipends and the Land, they aren't really talking about the gifts anymore which were usually pretty lame, but for long-term residents, more groups make a difference, and for those who use sophisticated scripts, a Land Experience is very useful, and I'm sure event shoppers appreciate the easier early access. Then, for creators at the Premium Plus level, the free uploads can mean real savings far greater than stipends.

But yeah, except for the few with grandfathered stipends, they really don't pay for any subscription level.

[Jaylinbridges]

29 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Not to dispute your conclusions, but I can't understand the arithmetic. What exchange rate are you using? I generally use 250 L$/US$ just for easy calculations, but this seems all over the place:

He is using the Market instant Buy and including the $1.49 USD minimum transaction fee.  It does cost $2.51 USD to buy 250 L$,

LL doesn't want naive buyers to realize there is any transaction buy fee.

Still, his numbers are wrong.  If you pay $99/yr for premium and save the 300$L stipend, your annual Premium cost is about $37 USD/yr.  For $37 you get 1024 sqm plot, mainland or a Linden Home, and about 370 LI.  That is 178 $L/week for 370LI on a 1024 sqm plot of mainland.  Try to find a 1024 sqm plot for 178 $L/week rent/tier from a land baron, or even LL, if you do not have Premium.

In addition to the other Premium extras that you may or may not use, depending on what you do in SL.

Edited June 14 by Jaylinbridges

[Simo Vodopan]

35 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Not to dispute your conclusions, but I can't understand the arithmetic. What exchange rate are you using? I generally use 250 L$/US$ just for easy calculations, but this seems all over the place:

• "for 5.56$ you get 1,000L" would be an exchange rate of 180. So… is that $5.56 something other than just buying L$s?
• "For 20$ which is the highest tier of premium you can get 4500L" would be 225, which isn't great but it's at least comparable to the LindeX rate
• "For 2.50$ you get 250L. Which is much cheaper" is actually horrible, a rate of only 100 (even slightly worse than the stipend benefit of the "Plus" subscription, which is really only good for owning a little Mainland). Maybe just a typo?

Overall, as you say, Premium is mostly about the ability to buy Mainland and the bonus tier (which for standard Premium is 1024m² now, not 512, which is for the Plus subscription.) There's some stipend thrown in, and the grandfathered L$500/wk stipends are just barely cash-positive now, independent of the land benefits, but those ancient accounts can't do much to incentivize new subscribers.

I will say, besides the stipends and the Land, they aren't really talking about the gifts anymore which were usually pretty lame, but for long-term residents, more groups make a difference, and for those who use sophisticated scripts, a Land Experience is very useful, and I'm sure event shoppers appreciate the easier early access. Then, for creators at the Premium Plus level, the free uploads can mean real savings far greater than stipends.

But yeah, except for the few with grandfathered stipends, they really don't pay for any subscription level.

All over the place? I'm going off of the website and how much it costs to buy L$ inworld. The prices are accurate. Standard exchange rate in US dollars. I know it can vary between nations but thats the numbers I get for myself.

[Simo Vodopan]

19 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

He is using the Market instant Buy and including the $1.49 USD minimum transaction fee.  It does cost $2.51 USD to buy 250 L$,

LL doesn't want naive buyers to realize there is any transaction buy fee.

Still, his numbers are wrong.  If you pay $99/yr for premium and save the 300$L stipend, your annual Premium cost is about $37 USD/yr.  For $37 you get 1024 sqm plot, mainland or a Linden Home, and about 370 LI.  That is 178 $L/week for 370LI on a 1024 sqm plot of mainland.  Try to find a 1024 sqm plot for 178 $L/week rent/tier from a land baron, or even LL, if you do not have Premium.

In addition to the other Premium extras that you may or may not use, depending on what you do in SL.

I'm not even gonna argue that because I know what I see. That is speaking through per month terms ofcourse. Although, I feel some people just skimmed over what I said.

 

Says it right there https://secondlife.com/premium

Edited June 14 by Simo Vodopan

[Jaylinbridges]

39 minutes ago, Simo Vodopan said:

I'm not even gonna argue that because I know what I see. That is speaking through per month terms ofcourse. Although, I feel some people just skimmed over what I said.

That's OK.. My numbers are accurate, and also agree with their annual Premium cost on the web page you listed,  What part do you not understand?

300 $L x 52 = 15600 $L/yr.  15600/250 = $62.40 USD per year stipend refund.  $99 - $62.40 = $36.60 USD/year for Premium account after the Stipend.

$36.60/52 = $0.704 /week = 176 L$/week for a 1024 sqm plot. 

176 L$/370 LI = 0.476 L$/ LI. 

You are paying about 1.0 L$/LI/week for your 512 SQM plot, more than twice the cost than if you were Premium.   

 

Edited June 14 by Jaylinbridges

[Simo Vodopan]

5 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

That's OK.. My numbers are accurate, and also agree with their annual Premium cost on the web page you listed,  What part do you not understand?

300 $L x 52 = 15600 $L/yr.  15600/250 = $62.40 USD per year stipend refund.  $99 - $62.40 = $36.60 USD/year for Premium account after the Stipend.

$36.60/52 = $0.704 /week = 176 L$/week for a 1024 sqm plot. 

176 L$/370 LI = 0.476 L$/ LI. 

You are paying about 1.0 L$/LI for your 512 SQM plot, more than twice the cost than if you were Premium.   

 

The plot of land isn't my main focus here. Overall I'm talking about the overall value of what I get. As I mentioned for the second tier it is 8.25$ right? For me, I could buy 1,500L dollars worth of L for 7.56$ and get more bang for my buck that way. Compared to the measly 300L stipend. To me, its just not worth paying the extra 8.25$. Like I said, I think most of my post was skimmed over and people drew their conclusions there. Missing the point entirely.

Edited June 14 by Simo Vodopan

[Jaylinbridges]

You are ignoring the stipend refund.  If you ignore that you get back $62.40 USD /yr with the 300L stipend, then a 1024 plot would cost you $1.91 USD/week or 476 $L/week, for 370 LI. That is 1.29 $L/LI/week - which is higher than you would pay renting privately.  But I don't ignore the $62.40 USD refund I get back if I save the stipend. 

I also use several of the extra benefits of Premium, because I run a business, and save even more with Premium.  You are saving about 62 cents/week by just renting an empty parcel, and paying with your dollars for everything else. If that makes sense to you go for it.  You won't have the extra 300L stipend/week, but you can always buy more lindens to make up for that, and pay the LL buying fee each time.

Edited June 14 by Jaylinbridges

[Simo Vodopan]

6 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

You are ignoring the stipend refund.  If you ignore that you get back $62.40 USD /yr with the 300L stipend, then a 1024 plot would cost you $1.91 USD/week or 476 $L/week, for 370 LI. That is 1.29 $L/LI/week - which is higher than you would pay renting privately.  But I don't ignore the $62.40 USD refund I get back if I save the stipend. 

I also use several of the extra benefits of Premium, because I run a business, and save even more with Premium.  You are saving about 62 cents/week by just renting an empty parcel, and paying with your dollars for everything else. If that makes sense to you go for it.  You won't have the extra 300L stipend/week, but you can always buy more lindens to make up for that, and pay the LL buying fee each time.

Alright, fair enough. I try to look at things across the board. But that is true about the refunding.

Edited June 14 by Simo Vodopan

[PheebyKatz]

Tilia could just let me spend my US$ balance on L$ without making me go get a bank account again first, and I'd be happy. They could even round down and keep the difference, and I wouldn't mind.

I'd blow it all in 2 days, but hey, that's good for the virtual economy.

[Jaylinbridges]

Hey the thread is back on topic, after wondering if this topic was about letting AI design teddy bears and funny looking doghouses.