Who - aside from users - will benefit from the Mobile Ap

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

But, she's often not wrong.  😁

Oh, great! If you agree with her, we're truly screwed! * panics *

[Jaylinbridges]

@Love Zhaoying

What is the maturity rating for this Apple APP?  Is it even rated yet?  It should be 17+

[Extrude Ragu]

I don't want to repeat what everyone else has said.

But Zalificent, I personally don't mind that you raise lots of problems. You have a lot of knowledge and experience of Second Life up there and I respect that. My main gripe is you never seem to think of other peoples spirits. Sometimes you seem to function a bit like a dementor that exists for the soul purpose of striking down the human spirit sometimes. I'm not claiming to be an angel myself. I do value your insight. I just wish you'd think of the mood you tend to put people in and how it might not bring out the best in those around you. That's all.

[Jaylinbridges]

It's got to be something in the water where she lives...  All those kids dumping drugs in the river? Flushing too, assuming they have indoor plumbing by now.

Edited May 25 by Jaylinbridges

[Jaylinbridges]

25 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

What is the maturity rating for this Apple APP?  Is it even rated yet?  It should be 17+

Asking again. Does the SL Apple APP have a Maturity Rating?  It should be in the top right corner.  Any other Iphone users here that can answer? 

This is relevant, because the 17+ rating ALLOWS all of these things below.  What else does Adult land have that is not on this list?

Apps with this rating may contain instances of the following content that may not be suitable for children under the age of 17:

• Unrestricted web access, such as with an embedded browser

• Gambling

• Frequent or intense simulated gambling

• Frequent or intense mature or suggestive content

• Frequent or intense medical or treatment-focused content

• Frequent or intense references to alcohol, tobacco, or drug use

• Frequent or intense sexual content or nudity

• Frequent or intense realistic violence

Edited May 25 by Jaylinbridges

[Arielle Popstar]

35 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

But, she's often not wrong.  😁

Read in a business journal that the best and highest paid executives make good business decisions 35% of the time, so that leaves a wide margin of error.

Where she is factual, she is very good but when emotional bias creeps in, not so good.

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Read in a business journal that the best and highest paid executives make good business decisions 35% of the time, so that leaves a wide margin of error.

Where she is factual, she is very good but when emotional bias creeps in, not so good.

Agreed, we all have emotional biases depending on the topic.  I've been the target of  Zal's unique style of response a time or two. No harm done.  Sometimes, I roll my eyes and more often than not, I find myself agreeing.  Am I a fan of her acerbic style?  That all depends on who it's aimed at.  😁

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Rahadin said:

Zalificent Corvinus really needs to touch grass.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

52 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Read in a business journal that the best and highest paid executives make good business decisions 35% of the time

Your mistake is in assuming that Executives get paid on the basis of how good they are at their jobs.

"Oh, that guy gets $3.2 mil a year, he MUST be a genius, he has a Combined Diploma of Piled Higher & Deeper in sociology and business studies!"

 

Here in the UK, the post office hired a new ceo, on about 3.2 mil a year, and because he lived too far away to commute, a new mansion costing about 6.4 mil.

His first Executive problem was that the PO was charging 28p, for delivering a 2nd class mail item, at a cost to the PO of 29p.

 

Huis brilliant executive mind's solution?

Lay off 25% of the guys who actually deliver the mail, tell the remaining 75% they have to work 33% harder for 10% less wages, then he wasted some 60 or 70 mil rebranding the PO to Consignia, including changing the livery colours, as a result of which miillions of customers thought the local PO had closed and took their letters and packets to UPS and DHL, so he spent money DE-rebranding back to PO.

 

Me? I'd have just raised the price of a second class stamp from 28p to 30p.

 

Edited May 25 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Love Zhaoying]

42 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Agreed, we all have emotional biases depending on the topic.  I've been the target of  Zal's unique style of response a time or two. No harm done.  Sometimes, I roll my eyes and more often than not, I find myself agreeing.  Am I a fan of her acerbic style?  That all depends on who it's aimed at.  😁

I agree with Zal more and more lately! (That maybe hard for you Zal, sorry.)

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, lovestofu said:

Mobile, from the perspective of the business, is nothing but upside.  There is zero risk of driving away existing high value customers while increasing service availability to currently untapped markets.

No. This is not true at all.

A mobile application gets one shot and one chance to win someone over, and the time for that is significantly reduced compared to an actual computer.

For mobile only if you can't sell your product in the time it takes them to poop, you're out. This is especially true for entertainment products where competition is fierce. We're in the same boat as hearthstone, diablo, pokemon, honkai, genshin, cod, even old school runescape.

Debate SL being a game or not all you like, the end goal, to entertain someone is the same and w ( to quote a recent academic article) are "un-fun".

Desktop to mobile (our existing user base) will be far more forgiving, however that doesn't mean we will use the application or that creating it was a good idea. Especially when this isn't a virgin space. We have expectations about what will be useful to us, and wandering about mainland isn't it.

We're also not the great "untapped market" Linden are hoping for, whoever that might be.

 

1 hour ago, lovestofu said:

First off, Linden Lab is not stupid and understands the shortcomings with mobile.  One should expect the Mobile app to be more focused on avatar customization and shopping.  I expect the Marketplace to be more tightly integrated with the SL client, and there is a possibility that the incumbent vendor platform, Casper, becomes integrated as well.  That alone should drive growth, as avatar apps are very popular, and the extant content in SL (if carefully curated) looks fantastic compared to that of other platforms. Once users fall in love with their avatars, they will be strongly incented to try out the Desktop experience.

I don't care about shortcomings and tempering expectations and neither does anyone else.

Sink or swim. Good or bad. Do or do not. These are the metrics we have to live by or we die in the churn of  bad reviews from people who spent 15 mins with the app before uninstalling it.

Shopping and the marketplace opens us up to the 30% Apple tax, likely everywhere.

Who is going to want to shop in the app if everything is 30% cheaper shopping in a browser on the same device. Unified pricing everywhere ear marks 30% of all sales as Apple tax, which either Apple get or Linden keep, on top of all the regular fees and taxes.

SL is not a curated experience. We make GARBAGE. On purpose half the time.

"Once users fall in love with their avatars" ... how long does that actually take do you imagine? Are you aware that the ill fated Blue Mars tried this trick and it did nothing for the in world population or the future of the platform.

1 hour ago, lovestofu said:

A benefit of the Mobile experience, even if limited, is that it forces Linden Lab to think hard about solving issues with the current platform architecture that would otherwise be seen as nitpicking.

Therefore it is a good project for Linden Lab engineering, which has some highly talented engineers that may be underutilized or underappreciated. Currently, the platform is slow to load and requires large amounts of data to be transferred in order to render the full experience. The platform is also old in terms of graphics technology, although they have recently added PBR, a much welcome improvement.

By giving their engineers a clever incentive, Linden Lab should be able to produce a more optimized Second Life experience on the Desktop. An effort to ship a Mobile experience is thus a driver for growth. I expect SL's netcode and architecture, even on the Desktop experience, to significantly improve.

Well .. I guess you know nothing about how software development gets done, or how Linden development operate. SL isn't wonky thanks to a lack of developer motivation and the suggestion is kinda insulting.

Your expectations are unfounded.

On the second point, the amount of data SL depends on to function is not that high, the processing of that data to assemble assets on screen is. This doesn't change for mobile, at least on a PC we can dedicated gigabytes of ram and storage space to the problem.

2 hours ago, lovestofu said:

These benefits do not stop at retrofitted improvements to the current platform.  Once the platform is rearchitected for mobile, it should bring more ambitious development efforts, such as VR, closer or within reach, especially as VR experiences are sensitive to degradations in network latency and graphics performance.can continue to use SL on the Desktop.  It's either Win-Win or Win-Neutral.  We should all be for this.

SL is not being "rearchitected for mobile".

If the previous paragraphs were pie in the sky, the pie is now full of smaller pies each crammed full of DMT for all the sense and connection to reality this has.

2 hours ago, lovestofu said:

Financially speaking, investing in a Mobile experience is mostly CapEx and little OpEx. This increases the valuation of Linden Lab even if the app generates minimal traction, and one would be shortsighted to believe anyone at the helm would say no to developing a Mobile experience.

We have been down this road several times before and even had fully functional mobile apps.

I wonder what happened to Lumia. If only anyone knew. 🤐

We do also have speedlight .. in the app stores. bringing all the mobile benefits with none of the development costs.

2 hours ago, lovestofu said:

From a marketing perspective, shipping a Mobile experience is a strong signal that the company backing Second Life is invested in the experience and should generate growth in MAU from simple organic search and WOM referrals. The fact that there is no current Mobile experience signals that Second Life is ancient tech. This may lead to decreased conversion as many choose to have their avatar experience on IMVU, which boasts a far larger userbase, but is actually the worse platform.

IMVU is more popular for one stupid dumb reasons.

It's so dumb.

The dumbest thing ever.

They looked at what their idiot users were doing on their platform, and (get this) leaned in hard.

2 hours ago, lovestofu said:

Furthermore, do not underestimate the importance of staying connected.  Many people on Second Life live very rich virtual lives, and therefore want to stay connected with their friends.  The connections that users make on this platform feel very real, and this seems to be a constant across all user segments, as even trolls end up forming lasting friendships on SL. That Linden Lab should ship a Mobile app should provide peace of mind to users who already use third-parties to connect to the grid, in terms of account security and user experience.

We have already solved that.

Discord.

Locations have servers, events have servers, family & friend groups have servers, roleplay guilds and regions have servers, even Linden have a server.

Discord does not eat phone battery by rendering a 3d world, nor does it automatically disconnect and log anyone out. Message histories are preserved server side and it supports all the communications anyone could need.

SL users will sit in SL and talk on discord. That's where we've been for the last couple of years.

2 hours ago, lovestofu said:

Long story short, Mobile will drive innovation, growth, and keep friends together. All for zero risk, because current customers can continue to use SL on the Desktop.  It's either Win-Win or Win-Neutral.  We should all be for this.

Oh I'm all for mobile.

However I think it's really important Linden start to manage expectations, as this kind of pie in the sky thinking can only lead to disappointment.

 

[Midnoot]

" Just use discord! And not our beloved Second Lyfe~ "

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Midnoot said:

" Just use discord! And not our beloved Second Lyfe~ "

This is what we're doing.

This is why I have been saying we need social tooling an why that is far more important that PBR and GLTF and render code.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I don't want to repeat what everyone else has said.

But Zalificent, I personally don't mind that you raise lots of problems. You have a lot of knowledge and experience of Second Life up there and I respect that. My main gripe is you never seem to think of other peoples spirits. Sometimes you seem to function a bit like a dementor that exists for the soul purpose of striking down the human spirit sometimes. I'm not claiming to be an angel myself. I do value your insight. I just wish you'd think of the mood you tend to put people in and how it might not bring out the best in those around you. That's all.

What I don't understand is I'd get a forum ban for saying 1/10 of the stuff against other forum members she does. It must be the way she says it 😁

 

[Jaylinbridges]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

What I don't understand is I'd get a forum ban for saying 1/10 of the stuff against other forum members she does. It must be the way she says it 😁

Or she has friends in low places, err High Places.  (is a song)  My only issue is every thread turns into one about her, instead of the thread topic.  She is right about as often as LL is right, so worth listening too,  even if she hates Buttwipe, Wisconsin.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

My main gripe is you never seem to think of other peoples spirits

I get pad to spend my working day pretending to be nice to clueless worthless overentitled jerks with IIQ scores on par with an EU shoe size.

Nobody is paying me to lie to them here, in my spare time.

You want a Forum Hug-Therapist to come in here with joss sticks and prayer beads, and lead them in a chorus of Kumbaya, ask Luna Bliss.

 

Edited May 25 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Jaylinbridges]

Does anyone know what the SL Apple APP Maturity rating is, or intends to be?   Third time I have asked this,  I know it's not a hot Drama topic that you are all addicted to.  Just information that tells us about the decisions LL has made.  

The users of the APP so far either don't know, or my question is not enough Drama for you to answer.

Edited May 25 by Jaylinbridges

[Istelathis]

8 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

What I don't understand is I'd get a forum ban for saying 1/10 of the stuff against other forum members she does. It must be the way she says it 😁

 

The mods aren't allowed to do it, so they leave it to the community.  You know, standard SL protocol 🙃  I wonder how many of them, are agreeing with her, but have to bite their lip.

Edited May 25 by Istelathis
it: Berate LL or residents 😉

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I get pad to spend my working day pretending to be nice to clueless worthless overentitled jerks with IIQ scores on par with an EU shoe size.

Nobody is paying me to lie to them here, in my spare time.

You want a Forum Hug-Therapist to come in here with joss sticks and prayer beads, and lead them in a chorus of Kumbaya, ask Luna Bliss.

 

See, this is why we like you.

🫲🥰🫱

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Does anyone know what the SL Apple APP Maturity rating is, or intends to be?   Third time I have asked this,  I know it's not a hot Drama topic that you are all addicted to.  Just information that tells us about the decisions LL has made.  

The users of the APP so far either don't know, or my question is not enough Drama for you to answer.

All any of us know is what our Glorious Leaders have said, at that meeting on Monday. NO ADULT ACCESS.

So you might as well stop asking as that's all the answer anyone here has.

 

[animats]

17 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

A mobile application gets one shot and one chance to win someone over, and the time for that is significantly reduced compared to an actual computer.

Right. I keep making that point to the Lindens I know. The first hour of the SL mobile experience has to be really good. Users must not be bored, not be confused, and not encounter any immersion-breaking bugs.

Suggested reading for Lindens: "The Gamer's Brain", by Dr. Celia Hodent. She has a doctorate in psychology, and she designed the user experience for Fortnite. So she knows what she's talking about. The video version, from GDC:

 

[Jaylinbridges]

9 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

All any of us know is what our Glorious Leaders have said, at that meeting on Monday. NO ADULT ACCESS.

So you might as well stop asking as that's all the answer anyone here has.

Thanks for replying.  I already knew that - but thought some of those Premium Ploooos testers might have a clue.  I guess not.  So I had to go to Reddit to find the LL hidden announcement, which makes no sense if they use the Apple 17+ App rating.  

Birdie Linden writes : (emphasis mine)

We are planning the exciting transition of the Second Life mobile app from Private Alpha to Public Beta in the near future. Expanding the audience for the app means that we must comply with app store requirements, including limits on the types of content that can be displayed in apps.In order to move forward, we will soon be removing access to Adult-rated regions on the mobile app. In the longer term, we are working on finer-grained controls for content maturity in order to allow maximum freedom while complying with app store requirements. 

For now, you will see this message when attempting to visit an Adult region:

The location you selected exceeds the content maturity limit on this device. App stores restrict the type of content that can be displayed in apps.

If you encounter this message at login, you can use the start location dropdown menu to choose from one of the locations in our Mobile showcase.After you are logged in, you can also browse the Destination Guide (Main menu > Places > Destination Guide) to find interesting General and Moderate locations to visit.

We’re excited by this next step in bringing Second Life to a wider mobile audience and look forward to your feedback as testing continues!

Edited May 25 by Jaylinbridges

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Birdie Linden writes : 

So, no inventory access, teleports limited to using the G & M sections of the Dump-stination guide.

It's almost as if...

...They are DESIIGNING the Mobile viewer to fail miserably, on purpose. 

[Katherine Heartsong]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Asking again. Does the SL Apple APP have a Maturity Rating?  It should be in the top right corner.  Any other Iphone users here that can answer? 

This is relevant, because the 17+ rating ALLOWS all of these things below.  What else does Adult land have that is not on this list?

Apps with this rating may contain instances of the following content that may not be suitable for children under the age of 17:

• Unrestricted web access, such as with an embedded browser

• Gambling

• Frequent or intense simulated gambling

• Frequent or intense mature or suggestive content

• Frequent or intense medical or treatment-focused content

• Frequent or intense references to alcohol, tobacco, or drug use

• Frequent or intense sexual content or nudity

• Frequent or intense realistic violence

26 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Does anyone know what the SL Apple APP Maturity rating is, or intends to be?   Third time I have asked this,  I know it's not a hot Drama topic that you are all addicted to.  Just information that tells us about the decisions LL has made.  

The users of the APP so far either don't know, or my question is not enough Drama for you to answer.

Here the main one from Apple's guidelines (easily found on developer.apple.com) ...

18.1 Apps containing pornographic material, defined by Webster's Dictionary as "explicit descriptions or displays of sexual organs or activities intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings", will be rejected.

Without any doubt, SLex would be considered pornographic by the gate keepers at Apple, hence the "no Adult-rated land, given LL's own Adult notes that say ...

"Expressly sexually themed content, spaces or activities, whether or not photo-realistic. We broadly define what is "sexually themed" to include any sexually oriented activities and conduct."

The bold part is what runs afoul of the Apple censors.

Honestly, all Apple needs to do is do a group search for the average sex-focused group, see the hard core porn images in the group description, and that's ground for rejection right there. Best thing to do if you can even search for group in the iOS app is blank out the associated pictures, though most of those groups will run into that one word that Apple conveniently included in 18.1 ... "explicit descriptions".

Half the groups I just mentioned have awfully explicit descriptions.

Edited May 25 by Katherine Heartsong

[Jaylinbridges]

12 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Here the main one from Apple's guidelines (easily found on developer.apple.com) ...

18.1 Apps containing pornographic material, defined by Webster's Dictionary as "explicit descriptions or displays of sexual organs or activities intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings", will be rejected.

Yeah I remember that being said from the old thread about this.  But SL does not contain pornographic material, which has to be for sale or distributed.  So Frequent or intense sexual content or nudity, and Frequent or intense mature or suggestive content,  is OK because that IS allowed in the 17+ rating.  But Pornographic material is not?

The difference is SL does not distribute pornographic material!  
What is the difference between intense sevual content/nudity, and intense mature suggestive content,  and Pornographic Material?  The first activity is in private, hidden, and not published.  And Apple says that is just fine for 17+

 

Edited May 25 by Jaylinbridges