Silverdown Seetan Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said: I do gotta ask. Why is it such a bad thing for Child avatars to have to make sacrifices? Everyone has to make sacrifices, and do things they don't like. It's part of life. Then we all should have modesty layers outside adult regions applied server side. 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Mote Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: I do gotta ask. Why is it such a bad thing for Child avatars to have to make sacrifices? Everyone has to make sacrifices, and do things they don't like. It's part of life. I was wondering earlier how much freedom of expression a customer that's playing a child character should expect to have, on any open world virtual platform or game. Edited May 7 by Ineffable Mote 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 2 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said: but since no child has any genitals ether 3d or painted by default. oh please, when you state that you have no idea what is around on SL and what happens between sorts of avatars. you might be a saint, but lots of your liitle friend are absolutely not. Edited May 7 by Alwin Alcott 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: I do gotta ask. Why is it such a bad thing for Child avatars to have to make sacrifices? Everyone has to make sacrifices, and do things they don't like. It's part of life. I'm not arguing against the modesty layer, most of us already wear one, only the welded on built into the mesh idea that some of LL's wording in spots seems to imply necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) Haven't you all noticed by now, that one has to agree with the TOS when one logs in? We have already 214 pages of discussions, ranting, begging and what not.... for nothing really. The new TOS is there. It is there to stay. So the magic word is: adapt. Okay, carry on. Edited May 7 by Sid Nagy 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Alwin Alcott said: oh please, when you state that you have no idea what is around on SL and what happens between sorts of avatars. I know what bodies I use and have demo'ed come with, I don't recall saying once anything about what is around SL. But someone would have to purposefully seek that out, they do not come with the bodies by default. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 minutes ago, Silverdown Seetan said: Then we all should have modesty layers outside adult regions applied server side. Why? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Heartsong Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 4 minutes ago, Silverdown Seetan said: Then we all should have modesty layers outside adult regions applied server side. No, because Moderate allows nudity, but surely you know this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, MissSweetViolet said: No one I know ever asked for this, but since no child has any genitals ether 3d or painted by default, it wasn't even realized that was a needed option till now since most child avatars already use underwear. It was assumed just putting those on should be sufficient. Exactly, if you don't participate in anything of the sort, as the vast majority of the kid community don't, and you don't have that sort of sick mindset, then why would you ever think you'd need to do anything different if you're already wearing BOM undies and fully clothed? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Trihey Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Sid Nagy said: Haven't you all noticed by now, that one has to agree with the TOS when one logs in? We have already 213 pages of discussions, ranting, begging and what not.... for nothing really. The new TOS is there. It is there to stay. So the magic word is: adapt. Okay, carry on. Yep, just be good little consumers. Don't complain. Don't ask questions. Do what your told. Y'know no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to click this topic right? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaa Starlight Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 5 minutes ago, Silverdown Seetan said: Then we all should have modesty layers outside adult regions applied server side. How about NO! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, MissSweetViolet said: I know what bodies I use and have demo'ed come with, I don't recall saying once anything about what is around SL. But someone would have to purposefully seek that out, they do not come with the bodies by default. We all have to go after it because no body comes with it indeed. But we only see a handfull quite "normal" adults using kids avi's here. A huge part won't come, they'r no idiots... for a reason! Sexuality is nearly as normal in large parts of the kidscommunities as in the adult ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 7 minutes ago, Silverdown Seetan said: Then we all should have modesty layers outside adult regions applied server side. Why are you on such a tirade to make everything and everyone modest in SL? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Katherine Heartsong said: No, because Moderate allows nudity, but surely you know this. Wrong, "Moderate" doesn't allow promotion of sexual activities in public nor private: "Residents in these spaces should therefore expect to see a variety of themes and content. Stores that sell a range of content that includes some "sexy" clothing or objects can generally reside in Moderate rather than Adult regions. Dance clubs that feature "burlesque" acts can also generally reside in Moderate regions as long as they don't promote sexual conduct, for instance through pose balls (whether in "backrooms" or more visible spaces). However if any of these businesses uses adult-oriented search tags, the region may be categorized as Adult and blocked from appearing in non-Adult search." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: Why? because everyone has to make sacrifices, that' just how life works. Edited May 7 by Coffee Pancake 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) I'm really amazed at all of this, especially the baked-in modesty layer. I'm against it just because I don't think it solves any problems, won't stop aberrant behaviour, potentially creates TOS-criminals out of most people, and what would Ken and Barbie dolls think? Right now kids can have Ken and Barbie that do not have 'modesty layers' (although ken apparently had his butt and bump removed) - BUT ADULTS can't have non-genitaled (or non-detailed) skins on SL.. it really is part LMAO and SMFH... It's rather so stupid, and comes across as incredibly prude, and punishes a whole swatch of mature adult users - based on the (alleged/suspected/feared) TOS-breaking actions (it's already covered) of 0.01% or less of deviant users. I have no specific dog in this fight, as I don't use a child avatar in SL, but I am against pointless and infantilizing policies - almost embarrassing policies - (should you be telling someone else about SL, and they'd be WTF really?) What I find entertaining and somewhat concerning though, is the amount of respondents who seem to want to be child avatars and run around naked for some reason.. Really? Is this entirely necessary to your existence? Could you not just create an Opensim, or even on your local machine/local host and just do your 'naked' RP there? So very strange how many want to lawyer the TOS, or push the boundaries "It's not a child cuz has ears or tail", or "My age is your subjective!" - completely denying, ignoring and even ARGUING against KNOWN definitions, body traits, body sizes and features that almost every artist knows - what defines child-like features from an adult.. .and how you can infantilize/childize a 'adult' avatar to break the rules - but has a lollipop in their mouth, holding a teddy bear, a bit knock-kneed, 'shy', has big eyes, has flushed cheeks, and calls herself 'naughty', or the avatar sold is featured with a photo holding up a finger "Shhhh it's our secret" .. Give me a break. So my opinion that I want to maintain people's dignity around here as adults, and for LL not to infantilize and criminalize their users, also has to be tempered with the absolute BS some users present trying to skirt the rules. So then I will default to 'behaviours' and 'actions' to allow the most freedom and leeway, without being to prude on everyone. And, if people can't govern themselves, and don't have the ability or brainpower to comprehend what is stated in a TOS, and the spirit of it, and reading it as a 'whole' to get the big picture, and want to nitpick, lawyer it, 'what if'.. bla bla bla.. then THAT forces LL to take stupid measures like baked underwear - then so be it. People can't do it themselves, then Mommy and Daddy have to make you. Sad. 1 hour ago, brodiac90 said: There shoud be no confusion where it comes to child avatars and adult activities. It's one of the main reasons I play as a 9 year old boy. No one could look at my avatar and think I'm anything but a child. I think if you have an avatar that is borderline then that is very dangerous. There's no confusion for the regular person that has a normal brain on their shoulders. If people weren't constantly trying to skirt the rules and screw around - and acted maturely and with common sense, then silly policies wouldn't need to be enacted. I absolutely HATE that LL is considering a modesty layer.. Clothing is modesty layer... But there are some people bent on pushing the boundaries, so now we're at the point something has to be done.. Embarrassing, really. 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: I tend to agree. All the "what-ifs" seem somewhat excessive, addressing things like: - What if someone de-renders their clothing? - What if their clothing fails to download / render? - What if the body / skin does not support the "modesty layers"? There almost "have" to be exceptions for some of these situations. (He said, optimistically.) All fearful responses that are not warranted. If someone de-renders their clothing? How would they know? That person is a pervert. And if there is nothing to see under there, why bother? Pointless. What if their clothing fails to download/render? Their base skin won't have any details anyway. If they do, I wonder why they would. Not necessary. Even in the most 'innocent" of "RPS" as a poster said it.. is there really that much demand or need to have specific details on skin anyway (on a child avatar)? I'd say no. Keep in mind that I may be unaware of creators who are making 'child avatar' skins or w/e with full details on them.. then I'd ask them why? Of course, for a mature adult out there I also would think 'who cares if they have details', as they are roleplaying or recreating real life situations in SL that are 1) Innocent and 2) Would seem strange if all bodies were non-descript Barbie types... So I can see both sides.. What won't change is "Pervert", and "misuse" with any policy because they will be impossible to police anyway.. unless you have "Panty Police" going around SL camming under people's clothes to see if they have a 'modesty layer' on or not. It should begin and end with any AR report is if a child avatar is engaged in non-G or family friendly ways in SL and be done with it. Allow the most freedom, but reminding everyone what acceptable behaviours are. Edited May 7 by Codex Alpha 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 It is all mainly a spoiled children discussion. It remembers me of the time when I was teaching 11 and 12 years old kinds. They also see themselves standard as ugly ducklings and treated totally unfair. Mmm, this thread is pretty good roleplaying in fact /me runs fast. I'll show myself out again. 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinVonVlotho Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Silverdown Seetan said: Then we all should have modesty layers outside adult regions applied server side. Why? Non-sexual public nudity is allowed in moderate regions, and sex is allowed behind closed doors, so why should we have to wear a modesty layer? Moderate regions are 18-rated. The onus is on child avi users to work around that and avoid anything adult-themed. Refusal to accept that will just end with child avis being banned from M as well as A, because there are a lot more people who like to get naked in their bedroom on a moderate sim than there are child avi users. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverdown Seetan Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Sammy Huntsman said: Why are you on such a tirade to make everything and everyone modest in SL? This is exactly how the child avatar community is feeling right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 4 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said: Yep, just be good little consumers. Don't complain. Don't ask questions. Do what your told. Y'know no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to click this topic right? On the other hand, LL gave us torches in our library inventory. Use them if needed! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Alwin Alcott said: We all have to go after it because no body comes with it indeed. But we only see a handfull quite "normal" adults using kids avi's here. A huge part won't come, they'r no idiots... for a reason! Sexuality is nearly as normal in large parts of the kidscommunities as in the adult ones. How many kid communities have you been a part of? I've been a part time kid avatar for almost 3 years, and it most certainly is not the normal in any reputable kid communities. The only place I'd even be remotely compelled to believe that, are teens who skirt the line, but they don't represent the whole of the kid community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Here's a question .... Would an previous unquestionably adult avatar explicitly wearing a modesty layer now reasonably fall under the rules for child avatars, as they are abiding by one of the rules for child avatars ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said: /me runs fast. I'll show myself out again. Good RolePlaying! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Trihey Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: On the other hand, LL gave us torches in our library inventory. Use them if needed! 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said: Y'know no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to click this topic right? So if one is against your position, one can go? Nice spoiled kid reaction. A+ Edited May 7 by Sid Nagy 2 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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