So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Qie Niangao]

8 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

My experience is that while rezzing in before completely rezzed, I've often seen parts of the mesh body that were made invisible once the alpha actually rezzed. It's the main reason why I wear BoM undies and don't just rely on an alpha for modesty.

Some BOM layers in the same outfit rez separately from others? I don't understand how that would happen, and it would seem a serious bug independent of any potential momentary immodesty.(Alpha cuts, of course, can apply whenever the spirit moves them, or never at all.)

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

In that case, if LL is gonna be the morality police concerning what people do while sitting at their keyboards, they better mandate modesty skins for ALL under 18's, don't want some pervo touching himself over the naked body of a 17 yr old who's clothes he derendered

They did.

Anyone RP in SL as an avatar under the age of 18 is considered a 'child avatar', so the rules apply. 

[Daniel Regenbogen]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Yeah, they kind of do to the extent LL can without explicitly banning child avatars.  

It simply is a case of doing something for the sake of doing something - no matter if useful and/or reasonable. And it paints a whole community into potential criminals (or there wouldn't be a need for such actions, right?).

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

4 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

But you also should agree that a certain amount of self declared "Art Lovers" are all but "Art Lovers". 

They're all "art lovers" or r"ecovering from childhood trauma". They need to have kid genitals for that. Lol. 

Edited May 4 by Ingrid Ingersoll

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 hours ago, stlshayne said:

You just the chat is popping when people are responding to things from 4 pages ago like they were just said tho

That's how the forums work for threads like this that accumulate pages in just a few hours.  We respond as we read  - easier than trying to do "multi quote" of lots of comments.

[Blush Bravin]

Just now, Qie Niangao said:

Some BOM layers in the same outfit rez separately from others? I don't understand how that would happen, and it would seem a serious bug independent of any potential momentary immodesty.(Alpha cuts, of course, can apply whenever the spirit moves them, or never at all.)

No, BoM layers rez at the same time. So I must be thinking of alpha cuts. I know I use alpha cuts nearly as much as alpha layers. So that's probably what I'm thinking.

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

No, BoM layers rez at the same time. So I must be thinking of alpha cuts. I know I use alpha cuts nearly as much as alpha layers. So that's probably what I'm thinking.

That's why the requirement should be...must wear a system skin with modesty panels.  If nothing mesh, body included, rezzes, the system body will be sufficiently covered.

[Wincil]

Peoples bodies can change  and people can grow even into their 20's

sometimes 25 it depends on the person some people can grow until they're like 19/20 sometimes

tbh idk are they bringing up teenagers so much

I think that's self projection people who probably are a pedophile

that's like saying 15 year olds and 18+ are the same. 

Edited May 4 by Wincil

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

They did.

Anyone RP in SL as an avatar under the age of 18 is considered a 'child avatar', so the rules apply. 

I was only joking, but seriously?

[Starberry Passion]

1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Anime characters in japanese cartoons and movies are not driven by real humans like in Meta or SL. This is a major difference.

I also agree that it is difficult to determine where art ends and where sexualised abuse starts. But you also should agree that a certain amount of self declared "Art Lovers" are all but "Art Lovers". And to risk our platforms by enabling these "Art Lovers" to  love their interpretation of "Art" without some reasonable restrictions is stupid.

I'm not going to agree with that because I don't care about what people do with art. I know that art is not a real thing. You're trying to twist it into a different narrative in a forum about the ToS and child avatars to justify calling a fictional being children when they're just child avatars.

These rules are protecting child avatars in second life, the rules are understandable, they're good, they will take some time for some of you to get use to, however

when you compare real children to fictional material you are dehumanizing those children and that's where it becomes a problem.

I'm just telling you to call them child avatars, not children, because they're not children. They are avatars piloted by real people and if you continue to say they are children it sets a bad precedence about second life to those looking in.

If the normal person looks in and see's "real actual children" "children" they will then think we are talking about sexualizing and groom real kids, turning them into sexual materials when it's about child avatars. That's not a good press and will be negative to the entire community, not just those who sexualized them, because it will label Second Life with it. It is bad press.

[Love Zhaoying]

19 minutes ago, Wincil said:

Have you ever heard of something known as a anime caricature? 

I think a lot of us "get it", you're coming from a different place. You and your creations are just fine, probably. I can't tell why you're being defensive anymore. Maybe whoever is arguing with you will settle down so you can stop worrying, nobody is threatening you and your creations if they don't look like children.

[Wincil]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I think a lot of us "get it", you're coming from a different place. You and your creations are just fine, probably. I can't tell why you're being defensive anymore. Maybe whoever is arguing with you will settle down so you can stop worrying, nobody is threatening you and your creations if they don't look like children.

Whatever. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

5 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I find this thread triggering,

Then you most definitely should avoid this thread 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

for the record abusing children is sick, degenerate, pure evil, and anyone guilty of such a thing should be severely punished, in the most severe cases, even with death, but cartoon kids? sorry i cant get upset about that

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

2 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

 That's not a good press and will be negative to the entire community, not just those who sexualized them, because it will label Second Life with it. It is bad press.

SL has had a rep for this since 2007 honestly. 

[Vivienne Schell]

2 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

when you compare real children to fictional material you are dehumanizing those children and that's where it becomes a problem.

Excuse me, but following your argument: Who "dehumanises" here? If someone creates a child avatar in Second Life, isn´t that "dehumanising" a child, according to your theory?

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

People don't get "banned" for insults and personal attacks, generally. Posts get deleted, Mods post warnings, threads get locked, and transgressors get a DM from the Mods.

People can be banned from the forums and SL for days/weeks over posts in the forums - including personal attacks.

I know from personal experience (due to a post that was seen as a personal attack).

And just ask @Phil Deakins how many times he's been banned from the forums & inworld for posts.

Edited May 4 by LittleMe Jewell

[Starberry Passion]

Just now, Vivienne Schell said:

Excuse me, but following your argument: Who "dehumanises" here? If someone creates a child avatar in Second Life, isn´t that "dehumanising" a child, according to your theory?

No because a child avatar isn't real but when you call them real children, you're comparing them to real children, thereby dehumanizing those children you just compared a fictional child avatar to. 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Wincil said:

Whatever. 

I was being supportive. But if you feel a need to vent due to your concerns, that's awesome too. I hope you come to see that not everyone is against you, and some of your arguments may just be falling on "deaf ears" or those who don't and won't understand positive anime culture.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Then you most definitely should avoid this thread 

Thanks! But since venting and explaining the source of my angst, I feel better. I appreciate your support!

[Qie Niangao]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That's why the requirement should be...must wear a system skin with modesty panels.  If nothing mesh, body included, rezzes, the system body will be sufficiently covered.

But again, the complete baked BOM surface—alpha mask, system skin, tattoos, texture underwear, the whole shebang—rezzes whether on mesh or the system body. There just is no BOM layer underneath another BOM layer.

(Tangent: That's true even if wearing multiple onion-skin mesh layers all painted with the system BOM textures: each layer would necessarily end up baked the same. I guess some theoretical body could use distinct alpha cut patterns on different onion-skin layers, but seems extreme. I mean, one could concoct a special mesh UV that paints forbidden pixels on the skirt UV placed inappropriately, but that's going way down the rabbit hole.)

[Wincil]

14 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I was being supportive. But if you feel a need to vent due to your concerns, that's awesome too. I hope you come to see that not everyone is against you, and some of your arguments may just be falling on "deaf ears" or those who don't and won't understand positive anime culture.

Well my only concern is that some people can't tell from fact or fiction some anime can have sci fi element's in it I think. 

Edited May 4 by Wincil

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

People can be banned from the forums and SL for days/weeks over posts in the forums - including personal attacks.

I know from personal experience (due to a post that was seen as a personal attack).

And just ask @Phil Deakins how many times he's been banned from the forums for posts.

Yes, that's why I wrote "generally". A 3-day ban from both sucks, "I'm an expert".  (Experienced.)

[LittleMe Jewell]

5 hours ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Well in the FAQ they do suggest that child avatars change to a different avatar before shopping on moderate sims.

I'm still many pages behind, but just in case everyone managed to skim over your post:

It is in the FAQ:

[Jaylinbridges]

5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Pretty sure that was exactly the motivation behind the bogus "report" that led to all this extra distraction for everybody.

It's bizarre to me that so little rage is directed at the originator(s) of this disaster. Instead we've been busy assembling the circular firing squad while the villain rides into the sunset, whistling.

If you feel the entire report was "Bogus", then tell me why LL management conducted an investigation, AND are making the following changes, based on their findings after investigating the Medium report issues?  I don't think you read it all very carefully. Following is from Oberwolf Linden's Blog letter yesterday:

The findings did highlight opportunities for improvement. As a result, we are making updates to our internal policies to raise the standard for how Linden employees should respectfully engage with community members. This addresses multiple forms of engagement including how we present ourselves, how we interact with the community (even in moments of conflict), and how we minimize the perception of conflict of interest and favoritism in our interactions. Additionally, there have been specific actions we have initiated or finalized:

• Updated our Child Avatar Policy 
• Updated our internal Policies and Procedures
• Implemented personnel changes
• Initiated management improvement programs
• Committed to Community Roundtables (see below)
• Committed to increased transparency and accountability