Starberry Passion Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: It would be a lot easier to determine if it weren't for the clear divide between those who want realistic RL proportions for their avatars and those who prefer to adhere to SL standards. The irony is that those "SL standards" were defined 20 years ago by a handful of egotistical males who started maxing out their shape sliders in attempt to assert dominance and display just how "alpha male" they were! 🙄 That's the thing though, This is a fictional world. It's not reality. Those "egotistical males who started maxing out their shape sliders to be alpha males" took away people's freedom of expression to express themselves, via their avatar and set a ticking timebomb. Not in just the child community but in all aspects of our imaginary would where we can no longer express ourselves to our own being without "Discrimination, alienation, manipulation, blackmail, fear." You know you're not a child, but everything you do is against someone else's self expression or values. And then people want everything to be realistic in Second life but the real world, the majority is still not welcomed fully. This was about child avatars but so many people made it about so much more. Made it about petites, made it about anime, made it about being slim, made it about being cute, made it about being too short, made it about being too thin. And this is why a lot of people, who had adult avatars who were adult avatars, left the game. You can look it up on many forums. People are talking about "age**** drove off so many." while that might be true for some, which isn't a bad thing to be upset about but many more people left because second life was too cliquish, people were too mean, people were bullies. too expensive, a lot of discrimination, too lonely, people try to barge into your real life too much." The point is, second life marketed, as a whole, a place where you have the freedom of self expression, creativity, a second life outside of reality and those tall men you are talking about set a precedent where it voids over half of everyone's self expression and creative outlooks and people cannot make second life their own that way, as adults. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 13 minutes ago, Daniel Regenbogen said: Best solution for LL: Have an AI monitor *all* conversation in open chat and IM! They really want to catch and fight pedos? That's the tool to do it. And it is very fair, it targets *all* residents. When some keywords are triggered, the AI will check the appearance of the involved residents. I'm sure it will make those happy who say "Every little step to make it harder for those perverts is great.". Hm, LL could bundle it with some social scoring. Someone helps a newbie? Give him some points. Someone runs an inworld charity? Give him some points. Someone encroaches a neighboring parcel with trees? Take away some points. If you have lots of points, you get some goodies. If you have a negative number, you get suspended for a day. China is doing that in RL, so why not try it out in SL? You are not, I hope, being serious? You want 24/7 digital surveillance in SL, recorded chat, and then enforcement by AI???? "This avatar only has 5 fingers! Book 'em!" 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 4 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said: Oh, you mean this guy: Pretty sure even he was dwarfed by some of the "alpha male" avatars at the time. I can't say I ever got close enough to compare heights but then it wouldn't be a fair comparison since I chose to make my avatar the same height as I am in RL (and have stubbornly refused to change ever since). This is me in 2004 on my first avi with my first ever SL friend (she was about a foot shorter than the average SL male at the time)... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 15 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: i think your conclusion is debatable, because we can read it in two ways ; if it's a combination of the two the word "and" wouldn't be there and just say "or". With the word "and" is makes the activity required to be present, and the "or" confirms the activity as main reason. this and the lack of information what they'r going to use to rule the violations only makes it a vague happening, not te mention the worries people get about possible different outcomes, just depending who's handling the appeal or report. ( what also was a point in the original cause of this) Somewhere way back someone posted that child avi's are not allowed to be in the presence of nude avatars even if they are clothed. So I would conclude that for child avi's it's considered Adult. For non child avi's it's still considered M if it's just nudity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wincil Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Daniel Regenbogen said: Best solution for LL: Have an AI monitor *all* conversation in open chat and IM! They really want to catch and fight pedos? That's the tool to do it. And it is very fair, it targets *all* residents. When some keywords are triggered, the AI will check the appearance of the involved residents. I'm sure it will make those happy who say "Every little step to make it harder for those perverts is great.". Hm, LL could bundle it with some social scoring. Someone helps a newbie? Give him some points. Someone runs an inworld charity? Give him some points. Someone encroaches a neighboring parcel with trees? Take away some points. If you have lots of points, you get some goodies. If you have a negative number, you get suspended for a day. China is doing that in RL, so why not try it out in SL? Ngl that's just straight up dystopia. Edited May 4 by Wincil 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Regenbogen Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: You are not, I hope, being serious? You want 24/7 digital surveillance in SL, recorded chat, and then enforcement by AI???? "This avatar only has 5 fingers! Book 'em!" What's the problem? I was told here that "everything that makes it a tiny bit harder for the pedos is great" - my solution would make it not a tiny bit harder but extremely. Consequences for all those innocent of any wrongdoing? Who cares! Of course the AI would not have the last say, the actual action against those who get caught would still be take by the governance team. At least for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saraya Starr Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 This thread is now a Train wreck. To be honest, some of you really need to get over yourselves. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aya Sweetheart Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Daniel Regenbogen said: What's the problem? I was told here that "everything that makes it a tiny bit harder for the pedos is great" - my solution would make it not a tiny bit harder but extremely. Consequences for all those innocent of any wrongdoing? Who cares! Of course the AI would not have the last say, the actual action against those who get caught would still be take by the governance team. At least for now... Sounds good... time to shut off the internet completely then. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlshayne Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) Is it really not obvious that person suggesting AI should monitor all of our DMs and that we need a social credit system is being facetious? Edited May 4 by stlshayne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Since I personally witnessed the type of violations being discussed and saw no words, I do not assume there are always any private or public chat involved. If AI were to be used as a detection tool, then chat couldn't be a reliable detection method. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, stlshayne said: Is it really not obvious the person thinks AI should monitor all our our DMs and we need a social credit system is being facetious? It would be easier to read as ironic if I hadn't run across proponents of AI suggest some pretty similar things in RL! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, stlshayne said: Is it really not obvious the person thinks AI should monitor all our our DMs is being facetious? Why .. LL could have conversational chat logs from all of us going back 20 years that they own entirely. That's AI gold. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Since I personally witnessed the type of violations being discussed and saw no words, I do not assume there are always any private or public chat involved. If AI were to be used as a detection tool, then chat couldn't be a reliable detection method. It's possible they might be smart and chatting not on SL but perhaps Discord? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said: Why .. LL could have conversational chat logs from all of us going back 20 years that they own entirely. That's AI gold. AI trained on SL chat . . . Now THAT is a dystopian nightmare. 5 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlshayne Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: It would be easier to read as ironic if I hadn't run across proponents of AI suggest some pretty similar things in RL! Fair enough... there are also proponents of AI suggesting we have holes drilled into our heads so wires can be put in. I choose to assume most people aren't nutjobs, though some people fail that test. Edited May 4 by stlshayne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 6 hours ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said: Read that back to yourself and ask yourself if that's actually a terrible thing. That's not the sick part, quote my whole post please 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 14 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: Somewhere way back someone posted that child avi's are not allowed to be in the presence of nude avatars even if they are clothed. So I would conclude that for child avi's it's considered Adult. For non child avi's it's still considered M if it's just nudity. the problem is, i don't see mentioned that it applies to child avi's only. If that would be included i'd agree. If those q/a is in chapters it could be under a title, but that got lost in the quote or.. isn't there and it would be to general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 6 hours ago, Wincil said: Not everyone will see my avatar as a child I have friends on second life who wouldn't of thought so. I'd be your friend, and I wouldn't consider you a child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Melody Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 10 hours ago, MinkBlueleaf Fyrewik said: I think I got it? The TWI wolf puppy isn't a human either, so technically that adult club didn't have / need to ban it? Hey Mink! My Little Pony avatars are adults unless they're using a foal mod or specifically say they're kids. Chibis, Dinkies, and Tinies are fine too. As for the Twi Puppy, the choice was made at the club to not allow any representations of a child regardless of species to be on the safe side (and this was way before the TOS change). 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Trihey Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 SL AI Monitor: User, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality code! 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: AI trained on SL chat . . . Now THAT is a dystopian nightmare. /me shifts eyes nervously 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlshayne Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Let's not pretend that if SL had a social credit system that LL would not just go under. This forum is enough evidence. =p 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: the problem is, i don't see mentioned that it applies to child avi's only. If that would be included i'd agree. If those q/a is in chapters it could be under a title, but that got lost in the quote or.. isn't there and it would be to general. Kathlen is right about this, I think. And it does confuse things. "Child avatars should not be engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected." So, yeah. For all intents, something like a nude beach might be rated Moderate, but it would effectively be out of bounds for child avatars, just as if it were Adult. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 6 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: Which is still an incorrect assumption. Anyone can be AR'ed for being an underage avatar. The question being will Governance actually investigate in spite of their assurances they will now start doing what they apparently up to now haven't been. --accidental double quote, wasn't gonna respond to this-- 6 hours ago, Vivienne Schell said: Don´t you think that some pedos derendered your attachments before the rule changes? Nothing will change, except that you are reuired to discourage the pedos now - by not offering anything they would want to get a glimpse at. That´s the little price to pay for impersonating a child in Second Life as you do. Be grateful that you can do it all, cause you cannot do it anywhere else on the planet like that. LOL you are too funny, don't forget, half the pedos in SL are the children themselves, they will make contact with interested adults while they are wearing their modesty skins, tp with them to a secluded place, then change into another skin which shows everything. This modesty skin requirement does NOTHING to protect children, and NOTHING to stop pedos. Its just another way to trap innocent kids who are non compliant and ban them. All the pedos reading this thread will be laughing, and carrying on as usual. Edited May 4 by BilliJo Aldrin fixed stuff 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 8 hours ago, Rowan Amore said: Every single adult region I go to has a restriction against anime type avatars so I'd say a majority of people see them as children. Whether YOU see.them as such is really irrelevant. Maybe those regions restrict them because they don't look like realistic humans? Not all anime characters represent children. Many represent teenagers, but some also represent adults. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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