So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Lysana McMillan]

Just now, Kathlen Onyx said:

If you are talking technicalities the club could have banned the avatar based on the fact they didn't like the earrings they were wearing. Nope, don't like it. BANNED.

Landowners can ban you for any reason they want.

Truth. Different club I worked for (furry and BDSM) banned avatars based on children's toys just to make absolute sure they weren't courting a false AR. Owner was buying into a SL legend about what constituted a violation, but he was still within his rights. He kicked out a bunch of MLP avis once and was deeply annoyed at the leader of the group's attitude about it. I razzed him about his policy and the event good-naturedly once when they staged a "best in toy" contest and I showed up in a MLP-based furry avatar. I was an adult avi based on human biological standards (ignoring the marshmallow pony aspects). He still almost kicked me out for it (and may have meant it). Half the room and I made him see reason. I'd comment on how he got back at me for it, but this isn't that kind of forum. I knew the job was dangerous when I took it. 😂

[Kathlen Onyx]

6 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

This is really the start of the end of Second Life.. thank you Linden Lab

LOL, every time something happens someone says "this is the end of SL"

I'm wondering if people are not aware that SL will probably end at some point.

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

please explain to me why anyone would play imvu, those avatars are gross

Until about 2016, 2017, Imvu had the better avatars but Imvu is much clearer about what is and isn't allowed and goes to the point of coding their viewers so that a none age verified account, is not even able to see adult content.

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 minutes ago, MinkBlueleaf Fyrewik said:

I meant in regards to the new changes in the TOS re: child avatars ^.^ As a landowner I already knew about the banning for any reason I want.

I'm not sure what you mean.  The change in the TOS doesn't affect landowners at all.

[MinkBlueleaf Fyrewik]

Just now, Kathlen Onyx said:

I'm not sure what you mean.  The change in the TOS doesn't affect landowners at all.

Sorry, it's from my original concern about what avatars = children.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

LOL, every time something happens someone says "this is the end of SL"

I'm wondering if people are not aware that SL will probably end at some point.

Individually and in some cases Groups, SL has ended for thousands. For those who remain, hanging on is an exercise in white knuckling.

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Theresa Ravenheart said:

Something that might be good for LL to look at and use to define the modesty coverage rules for child and teen avatars, it should be clearly defined liked IMVU does so that it cannot be questioned at all. 

https://create.imvu.com/articles/classic/understanding-minimum-coverage-guidelines/#:~:text=To accurately test the coverage,not sheer or transparent).

 

I could mostly see something like that working.  But I'd say no side straps required on the bottoms or top, as that could interfere with bathing suits. Also, for the girl, I don't think the top part needs a back strap or shoulder straps.  That could conflict with tops.

I think these types of tops are valid for girls of all ages, but a back strap and/or should straps on the breast modesty layer would ruin it:
   

[Leslie Trihey]

17 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Bullshj*te.

It's because we associate Huge heads, with huge eyes, and tiny mouths on flat chested narrow hipped bodies 4 and a half feet tall with "looks like a damn child".

Anime faces DELIBERATELY look child like.

Many Anime/Manga characters in the Non SL "art" are basically a child's head on an adult body. That is the "Culture" of Anime.

When you stick a child like head on a child like body, it's a child like avatar, and gets asked to change or leave or get punt kicked.

No exceptions

It's got sod all to do with "cute" and everything to do with "look like a damn child".

 

Thanks for proving some of the concerns valid. Lol. The kemono avatar is not a child avatar, nor can be really used as one. Unless you consider a shortie with a giant ass and child bearing hips as a kid

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

LOL, every time something happens someone says "this is the end of SL"

I'm wondering if people are not aware that SL will probably end at some point.

It will defo end when they drive enough people away that they can no longer cover their costs.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, Wincil said:

Again how do you know that they are not falsely banned or lie about their height? kemono wasn't intended to be a child avatar you doofus some woman are 4'8" in real life btw how do you know that that they broke ToS? how do you know that the disclaimer is meaningless? Im sorry to say this but you sound like a hypocrite. 

How did I know they lied about their height?

Hmmm.

Stay with me on this ok.

I see a suspicious avatar on the sim, that looks like it might violate the boss's NO CHILD AVATARS EVER rule.

I walk over, I look at the walking ToS violation, from my lofty 6'1" in 6" heel, and it's over a foot shrter than me.

I tell them no child avi's allowed, change or leave.

They say "But... But... I'm 5'4"

I rez a height meter, and tell them to click it, it says 4'8.

That's HOW I KNOW THEY LIED.

Simple huh?

 

How do I know the disclaimer is meaningless trash.

This one's EVEN SIMPLER.

"disclaimers" in place pics have NO LEGAL STANDING and CANNOT over rule the LL ToS, or a parcel ownerss rules. 

EVER.

Go ask a Linden if you typing "I decided I don't like LL's rules so it's ok if I ignore them" in a place pic is a valid defence against getting banned.

 

How do I know they were not "falsely banned from the sim"?

Because I was the one hired to check them out, I aw the deliberately child like head on the deliberately child like body, I was the one they lied to, repeatedly, I was the one who saw a deliberately child like avatar dressed in fetish gear, I was the one who said "change or leave" and I was the one who broke my foot off in their lying little asses.

 

There is NOTHING "hypocritical" about kicking a child-like  avatar off a parcel where child-like avatars are not allowed.

The Hypocrisy is claiming that Anime avatar users never lie, and are innocent of all wrong and stupid western "biggers" hate cute, and that LL's ToS section regarding ***-play can be ignored if it's anime and you write some nonsense in a place pic.

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Individually and in some cases Groups, SL has ended for thousands. For those who remain, hanging on is an exercise in white knuckling.

That bad huh. Hmm looks up at the sky falling. If SL ended I guess I have other things to do on and offline that while I might get a bit peeved for a week or so, I'd shrugs my shoulders and go do something else.

I actually think Opensim would be happy if SL closed as that would be a huge influx of avatars for them.

[Love Zhaoying]

20 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Women are not defined by their boobs.

Wish I knew which post you may be replying to so I could read it! 

I only found your usage of "boobs" on the current page. Although it could be in a hidden message. 🙂

(Unless you're just making a statement.)

 

[Rowan Amore]

22 minutes ago, Lysana McMillan said:

That one can be misunderstood. Granted, so many anime characters are middle or high-school students that it isn't helpful to those who wish to echo that look. People with partial knowledge and a low desire to learn more become armchair experts about what it takes to look like an adult in anime style and the fauxtrage begins. I also know it's possible to look anime-style and adult without using more conventionally Western anatomy.

I will also never forget staring at a Kemono-type avi at a BDSM club I DJed at for a while who I was told was OK with management. She had mosquito-bite breasts and no waistline. I was built like that once. I was 12. I've seen p0rn with Asian women who were over 18 and slim. Also Western women who were of roughly similar builds. You can tell the difference between AA-cup adults and pre-pubescents whose adult cup size is as-yet undetermined in a moment. The management bought her line of BS. File that under "part of why I quit."

There's also no law against having adult relations with women who appear younger in RL.  That's where RL and SL diverge and what some base their claim on.  

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

A BOM layer can be removed. It's if built into the body it can't be removed. A different body must be used. I would assume, based on common sense, the don't mean BOM skin layer.

But doesn't the skin override anything baked onto the body itself? 
And if the skin has the modesty layer, can I not add a tattoo layer that gives me back my breasts & genitals?

If the answer to either of those is yes, the the child avatar could still show as nude with full body reality.

[Vanity Fair]

1 hour ago, MissSweetViolet said:

Part of the issue is the rules for what the modesty layer should look like haven't been given out. The creator at TD was expressing this yesterday in their Discord. She received no notice from LL [found out through the announcement I believe.] She was working on trying to implement a fix that wouldn't break content [or at least as little as possible], and was ready to start, but has been given no guideline on what to cover. So if even the creators don't know what this layer should look like, where are we?

What it means is that few child/teen body and skin creators are going to be able to provide solutions for the customers in time to meet the June 30th deadline.  
 

This whole business has started to feel like an almost panicky, knee-jerk response from Linden Lab, who should have provided some more guidance to content creators BEFORE announcing these changes.
 

I’m actually feeling really cranky at the moment.  So LL isn’t going to budge on the modesty panel requirement, and I’m not going to budge on upgrading my outdated ToodleeDoo avatar. Therefore, I’m giving up on having any child avatars. I am DONE. I just feel sorry for the content creators and child/teen role players negatively impacted by this, who have little to no time to prepare. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some creators follow the lead of Zooby, and exit the child avatar market altogether.

Edited May 3 by Vanity Fair

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

The kemono avatar is not a child avatar, nor can be really used as one. Unless you consider a shortie with a giant ass and child bearing hips as a kid

I wonder sometimes, without being able to articulate it, who actually "likes" kemono avatars besides kemono users?

I just don't get it, and I do like "good" anime avatars (not related to "age").

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

That bad huh. Hmm looks up at the sky falling. If SL ended I guess I have other things to do on and offline that while I might get a bit peeved for a week or so, I'd shrugs my shoulders and go do something else.

I actually think Opensim would be happy if SL closed as that would be a huge influx of avatars for them.

Yes but can you get a mesh avatar in open sim?

*looks for her open sim login, username: "BilliJo Aldrin"*

Edited May 3 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a line

[Lysana McMillan]

11 minutes ago, Wincil said:

Childlike means this

(of an adult) having the good qualities, such as innocence, associated with a child.

"she speaks with a childlike directness" this this can refer to someone who is a grown man or woman cuteness does not always equate to child I can never understand why  some people discriminate on the basis of looks. 

Words have more than one meaning, especially when dealing with context-based situations. You're being deliberately naive here.

 

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Individually and in some cases Groups, SL has ended for thousands. For those who remain, hanging on is an exercise in white knuckling.

For you, maybe. I'm still thriving and happy 16+ years later.

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Yes but can you get a mesh avatar in open sim?

Absolutely

[JUSTUS Palianta]

2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Yes but can you get a mesh avatar in open sim?

MESH Avatars been in open sim for years.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

But doesn't the skin override anything baked onto the body itself? 
And if the skin has the modesty layer, can I not add a tattoo layer that gives me back my breasts & genitals?

If the answer to either of those is yes, the the child avatar could still show as nude with full body reality.

I guess that's why I tried to explain that to me, it's not a "modesty layer" (skin or body) that matters - it's whether the avatar looks naked or not. 

Does an "obvious/generic" modesty layer have to always be visible? I doubt it, because you could have top/bottom/underwear/etc. instead.

Just don't be naked. How hard is that, really?

I guess one ongoing issue being discussed is, if someone de-renders an avatar's skin and BOM layers (somehow? does that even work with skin?!?).  Then it may appear in report screenshots that the avatar was naked but they weren't really.  I know others brought this up before, and it is an "edge case".

 

Edited May 3 by Love Zhaoying
rewording

[Starberry Passion]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I wonder sometimes, without being able to articulate it, who actually "likes" kemono avatars besides kemono users?

I just don't get it, and I do like "good" anime avatars (not related to "age").

Kemonos were a furry avatar, so a furry would like a kemono avatar. It can become human and like I said, put it with an anime head, because it is a cute anime character, it will get Mistaken for a child, it's tiny, slender, small breasts. Anime heads are bigger than normal heads, because it exaggerates since it is a Cartoon, after all.

So someone seeing a cute anime avatar is just going to equate it to child.

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

What it means is that few child/teen body and skin creators are going to be able to provide solutions for the customers in time to meet the June 30th deadline.  
 

This whole business is started to feel like an almost panicky, knee-jerk response from Linden Lab, who should have provided some more guidance to content creators BEFORE announcing these changes.
 

I’m actually feeling really cranky at the moment.  So LL isn’t going to budge on the modesty panel requirement, and I’m not going to budge on upgrading my outdated ToodleeDoo avatar. Therefore, I’m giving up on having any child avatars. I am DONE. I just feel sorry for the content creators and child/teen role players negatively impacted by this, who have next to no time to prepare. 

Has LL even told the creators what the modesty panel needs to look like or are they supposed to just "wing it"

It has been asked in at least 4 posts for LL to show us what it should look like. I have yet to see a response here or on the FAQ page.

@Tommy Linden

[Leslie Trihey]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I wonder sometimes, without being able to articulate it, who actually "likes" kemono avatars besides kemono users?

I just don't get it, and I do like "good" anime avatars (not related to "age").

Plenty of people I imagine. I certainly got no complaints when I used to use one back in like... oh boy I'd say 2017? It's been awhile since I've even seen one in the wild. Kemonos kind of old fashioned these days.

Edited May 3 by Leslie Trihey

[Wincil]

1 minute ago, Lysana McMillan said:

Words have more than one meaning, especially when dealing with context-based situations. You're being deliberately naive here.

 

For you, maybe. I'm still thriving and happy 16+ years later.

Again I am not being naive don't be twist my words childlike can mean anything.