Thunes to acquire payments platform Tilia LLC

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

So your saying linden does pay attention to the forum after all, fancy that.

I'm all for a fee every time you make a forum post. ♥️

 

@JUSTUS Palianta, that's awfully sweet of you, but charging EVERYONE a fee every time I make a Forum post seems a tad unfair!

Edited April 29 by Love Zhaoying

[AllisonBridgerton]

[Istelathis]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

do we get a refund when the mods remove a post?

Only premium plus 😋

[Prokofy Neva]

On 4/23/2024 at 2:14 PM, Zalificent Corvinus said:

You think thee is one?

Remember how it works.

Cash generating "Victim Inc" is pottering along making a modest but steady profit.

Then it's CEO acts like a tool, and boasts that it's a cash machine.

Then "Stock Market Takeover Pirates Inc" borrow a BIG bag of money and buy Victim Inc.

Then the takeover pirates do some DARK side accountancy and offload all responsibility for the loan onto Victim Inc.

Then they carve off the interesting and re-sellable bits, give them a quick coat of fresh paint, and sell them off.

Then they sit back, and let what's left potter along, but only while it's generating enough cash to pay off the loan instalments AND put a hefty chunk of change into the takeover pirates pockets.

 

If the profits fall off, they let what's left die, and walk away, free of any debt, with pockets full of money, to look for a NEW Victim Inc to buy.

 

I remember one of the Forums less "business savvy" posters stating they were hopeful, because the new owner "had a history in drinks and snacks" and would be good at running something like SL.

I remember thinking at the time that was like saying Attila the Hun had a history in Roman Civic Re-Development.

 

Yeah, that was probably me. "Drinks and snacks" and a "job app" for filling store shelves, like a Door Dash only for managers of stores.

Why did I say that? Because he was a guy in business, not someone who was a computer engineer making widgets and gadgets. I found that helpful. I think it's good if people who have business experience selling actually things to actual customers, rather than making stuff only, or coding, are at the helm. I stand by that.

What I worry about now is that I *thought* the "vision thing" for the Lab was become "the Bank of the Metaverse". or "The Amazon of the Metaverse," i.e. they would sell currencies and goods online, and get away from the land model of server re-rental which is heavy in cost and staff. By taxing sales and currency purchases/sales/cashouts, they would become the bloodstream of the Metaverse and make a bundle, like whoever sold pick axes during the Gold Rush, or whoever owned the railroads.

So if they have abandoned that "cash cow" that would make them "the Bank of the Metaverse" by selling it (the "partnership" part isn't so clear to me when it's described as a sale), then they are selling off SL for parts, as some of the Negative Nabobs have been saying in this thread. And that's sad. I don't know if their Lab Gab really addresses THAT question.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 4/27/2024 at 10:48 AM, Luna Bliss said:

Perhaps all who create for these online corporations should get a better deal? Why should SL conform to the too-low payments creators receive on other platforms? As more and more of RL moves online I'd like to see all who create for online platforms get a better deal. In other words, let's not funnel too much of the money to CEO's.

However I don't know SL's financials, and realize they do need to keep afloat. Also I don't know what those at the top are making -- could be it's not in excess as RL execs make these days.  But to automatically think those at the bottom of a community should pay more is faulty thinking.

Another thought occurs to me: licensing for creators to allow cashouts, rather than allowing them for anybody and everybody as is the case now, no questions asked how you made the cash.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Another thought occurs to me: licensing for creators to allow cashouts, rather than allowing them for anybody and everybody as is the case now, no questions asked how you made the cash.

Brilliant!

 

Land Barons don't "create" so they won't get a licence to cash out, and thus can't make any money of their large land holdings, so...

They close down and we lose a quarter of the grid or more.

 

Well done, way to kill SL in months if not weeks.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

Gatekeeping who can participate in the SL economy is probably the dumbest idea I've heard on these forums, and I was here for covid.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Because he was a guy in business, not someone who was a computer engineer making widgets and gadgets

Your irrational hatred of anyone who actually knows how to use a computer continues to amuse.

 

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I found that helpful. I think it's good if people who have business experience selling actually things to actual customers

Well that rules out the Takeover Triumvirate. They don't "sell actual stuff to actual customers", they buy companies, repaint them, slice them up and sell the pieces off.

Like I said, claiming they have a "history in snacks and drinks" is very literally like claiming Attila the Hun had a history in Roman Civic Re-Development, because he raided Roman cities and burnt them to the ground.

 

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

What I worry about now is that I *thought* the "vision thing" for the Lab was become "the Bank of the Metaverse". or "The Amazon of the Metaverse,"

No, that was never the "vision", remember "Tilla is dead weight, it costs too much we're better off without it" etc., etc.

That "Bank of the MetaCrap-Does-Not-And-Will-Not-Exist-Iverse" nonsense is just "Buy, repaint, slice up and sell off" marketing spam.

"Hey look at Tilla, it's going to be HUGE as the Bank of the MetaCrap one day, if somebody was smarter and richer than us they should buy it now before the price goes up, and make a killing! It could be YOU!"

 

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

(the "partnership" part isn't so clear to me when it's described as a sale

"We entered into a partnership" apparently sounds better than "We planned to sell it all along and now we have".

 

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

then they are selling off SL for parts, as some of the Negative Nabobs have been saying in this thread

Some of us said it back when, when we heard who was heading the Takeover Triumvirate.

"What? THAT guy? Mr. 'buy, repaint, slice up and sell off', bane of the independent snacks and drinks manufacturers? OMFG, there goes the neighbourhood."

 

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

get away from the land model of server re-rental which is heavy in cost and staff

Is that "code speak" for "Shut down SL" because that would explain your next post, with the "brilliant" suggestion.

 

[Sid Nagy]

12 hours ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

So your saying linden does pay attention to the forum after all, fancy that.

Of course they monitor sometimes. Imagine there was a forum about your workspace. I bet you would read here and there and make sure, that you don't get involved in discussions with your work account or even better not at all.

That said: Of course Linden Lab sails it's own course.
For every customer who says you should go left, there is at least one to be found who is convinced that going to the right is the best solutions. There are customers to be found who want to go backwards, forward or stay at the spot.

But that doesn't mean that the input has no value.
Good ideas are good ideas to think over and discuss internally. But in the end the Lab has far more to consider than we normally do.
Laws, regulations, costs, available expertise inside the company, available staff, will it only be more costs or is there a future profit to make with the plan....

The only thing we have to do is saying "Linden Lab, we told you so" and move on to the next new brilliant idea, like charging for forum posts or putting all the land barons out of business with one stroke.

 

Edited April 29 by Sid Nagy

[elleevelyn]

11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

What I worry about now is that I *thought* the "vision thing" for the Lab was become "the Bank of the Metaverse". or "The Amazon of the Metaverse," i.e. they would sell currencies and goods online, and get away from the land model of server re-rental which is heavy in cost and staff. By taxing sales and currency purchases/sales/cashouts, they would become the bloodstream of the Metaverse and make a bundle, like whoever sold pick axes during the Gold Rush, or whoever owned the railroads.

So if they have abandoned that "cash cow" that would make them "the Bank of the Metaverse" by selling it (the "partnership" part isn't so clear to me when it's described as a sale), then they are selling off SL for parts, as some of the Negative Nabobs have been saying in this thread. And that's sad. I don't know if their Lab Gab really addresses THAT question.

i have been thinking about this since the announcement. By thinking I more mean reading the tea leaves continuing to try and understand what Linden are doing and why

i too thought that when Oberwolf and companions bought into Second Life then I thought Tilia would more be the prize for the new Linden shareholders rather than SL itself (and I think at that time it was a valid tea leaf projection)

it still can be as well. I don't know the details of the deal, but I think that some of the purchase price would have been paid for in Thune shares, which meets the shareholders want/need to continue to have a stake in the "Bank of the Metaverse". Thune now being the Bank vehicle and not Tila from a shareholder/stakeholder pov which meets the broader investment goal. Better to own a piece of the Thune Metaverse Bank than 100% of it's going nowhere globally tiny dwarf Tilia competitor  

I think the 5 year contract where Linden continue to run Thune/Tilia operationally, is more to satisfy any US regulators concern rather than anything else. There would be regulatory concerns if not for the deal, as Thune has no institutional experience reputation in the US. The 5 year deal buys Thune time to acquire this US reputation. This is same as when the SkyCity Casino was built in NZ. Local shareholders with zero casino operations experience, Harrahs (with all of their operational experience) contracted to run it for 5 years

the most interesting thing about this deal for me is that going forward the revenues gained from SL users now have only two clearly-defined structural destinations: 1) dividends for shareholders and 2) investment in SecondLife

which means that the most annoying thing in the past about the SL cash cow, is that the SL revenues are no longer going toward 3) investor seed money for other tech ventures

and I think that there not being a 3) going forward, has to do with Oberwolf being an investment banker type rather than a tech entrepreneur type. Sure he is into tech as a thing, but when it comes to money investment he is primarily (fundamentally even) a banker. Or so it appears to me, based on the how this deal is structured, meaning what got sold and what didn't get sold. But also more important, that investment bankers like their investments goals to be well-defined structurally

so on balance I think altogether that this is not a bad deal for SL users given the alternative deals that could have been

this all said, I do expect non-tier fees (of all types) to go up. I don't see tier going down - if only because Linden has already signalled how this is going to go - more capacity for the same tier money, recently 15% increase in physics capacity for the same tier

 

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

The only thing we have to do is saying "Linden Lab, we told you so" and move on to the next new brilliant idea, like charging for forum posts or putting all the land barons out of business with one stroke.

This is one of the magical side-effects of the "nay-sayers" and the "positivists", with all the "many and varied" possibilities being posted.

SOMEONE will be "right"!

Of course, we can always come back to this thread for "bragging rights". 

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, elleevelyn said:

I think the 5 year contract where Linden continue to run Thune/Tilia operationally,

LL isn't going to run Thunes for 5 yrs, they obliged themself to use Thunes in that period.
There's no Linden involvement anymore after all is signed.

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 hours ago, elleevelyn said:

i have been thinking about this since the announcement. By thinking I more mean reading the tea leaves continuing to try and understand what Linden are doing and why

i too thought that when Oberwolf and companions bought into Second Life then I thought Tilia would more be the prize for the new Linden shareholders rather than SL itself (and I think at that time it was a valid tea leaf projection)

it still can be as well. I don't know the details of the deal, but I think that some of the purchase price would have been paid for in Thune shares, which meets the shareholders want/need to continue to have a stake in the "Bank of the Metaverse". Thune now being the Bank vehicle and not Tila from a shareholder/stakeholder pov which meets the broader investment goal. Better to own a piece of the Thune Metaverse Bank than 100% of it's going nowhere globally tiny dwarf Tilia competitor  

I think the 5 year contract where Linden continue to run Thune/Tilia operationally, is more to satisfy any US regulators concern rather than anything else. There would be regulatory concerns if not for the deal, as Thune has no institutional experience reputation in the US. The 5 year deal buys Thune time to acquire this US reputation. This is same as when the SkyCity Casino was built in NZ. Local shareholders with zero casino operations experience, Harrahs (with all of their operational experience) contracted to run it for 5 years

the most interesting thing about this deal for me is that going forward the revenues gained from SL users now have only two clearly-defined structural destinations: 1) dividends for shareholders and 2) investment in SecondLife

which means that the most annoying thing in the past about the SL cash cow, is that the SL revenues are no longer going toward 3) investor seed money for other tech ventures

and I think that there not being a 3) going forward, has to do with Oberwolf being an investment banker type rather than a tech entrepreneur type. Sure he is into tech as a thing, but when it comes to money investment he is primarily (fundamentally even) a banker. Or so it appears to me, based on the how this deal is structured, meaning what got sold and what didn't get sold. But also more important, that investment bankers like their investments goals to be well-defined structurally

so on balance I think altogether that this is not a bad deal for SL users given the alternative deals that could have been

this all said, I do expect non-tier fees (of all types) to go up. I don't see tier going down - if only because Linden has already signalled how this is going to go - more capacity for the same tier money, recently 15% increase in physics capacity for the same tier

 

SL has always been their baby and their cash cow. But they have a really hard time letting go of other projects they have done. Both Sansar and Tillia have run LL dry and they are selling it.I think that with this new capital, they need to invest in rebuilding SL from the ground up. 

And this is not a partnership, it's an acquisition. So once all the bureaucratic BS is done, Thunes will be the new and sole owner of TIllia. 

[sirhc DeSantis]

So after a few days of the usual suspects plus the 'reddit is a fing honest' and a few because I am an oldbie and actually Ser P is worth reading... is it good or bad? Asking for the 95%+ of users who never come here.

I am thinking of a modest forum proposal - any that post here must be logged in at the same time.

[Alwin Alcott]

10 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

any that post here must be logged in at the same time.

for?, and where?... because only logged in SL accounts can post here.

Edited April 29 by Alwin Alcott

[Theresa Tennyson]

10 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

So after a few days of the usual suspects plus the 'reddit is a fing honest' and a few because I am an oldbie and actually Ser P is worth reading... is it good or bad? Asking for the 95%+ of users who never come here.

I am thinking of a modest forum proposal - any that post here must be logged in at the same time.

Let's say you own a factory that makes widgets. You're in an out-of-the-way place so you decide to put in a cafeteria for your workers.

That means you need to buy kitchen equipment and food, and hire cooks and managers to run it. 

All in all, the cafeteria operation is losing money because the audience isn't that big and small operations are inefficient, and nobody working there is making a single blessed widget for you to sell, which is your real business. 

If you could get outside people to come to eat at the cafeteria, there's more of a chance it'll become a profit center than a liability, but you'd need to push the food thing even harder than you're already doing, meaning spending more money up front on the cafeteria and the staff will still not be making your widgets.

But, if you sold the cafeteria to an outside restaurant company it could be run more efficiently because that company already has the knowhow, staff and suppliers. 

That's basically what happened here.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Let's say you own a factory that makes widgets. You're in an out-of-the-way place so you decide to put in a cafeteria for your workers.

That means you need to buy kitchen equipment and food, and hire cooks and managers to run it. 

All in all, the cafeteria operation is losing money because the audience isn't that big and small operations are inefficient, and nobody working there is making a single blessed widget for you to sell, which is your real business. 

If you could get outside people to come to eat at the cafeteria, there's more of a chance it'll become a profit center than a liability, but you'd need to push the food thing even harder than you're already doing, meaning spending more money up front on the cafeteria and the staff will still not be making your widgets.

But, if you sold the cafeteria to an outside restaurant company it could be run more efficiently because that company already has the knowhow, staff and suppliers. 

That's basically what happened here.

This reminds me of a couple RL examples:

- Where I work, the cafe's (one per large building) have for 25+ years been run by a "catering" company.  So, that's already outsourced.  Over time, we shut down to a single building.  The cafe was closed during COVID, and only re-opened slightly the last year or so.  This doesn't fit a comparison very well, except "cafe run by outside source". The company "saved money" by letting someone else run the cafeteria.

- I visited a college once where they let anyone walk in off the street and buy food at their cafeteria.  This kind of fits the "Tilia wanted other people to use the service, and so does Thunes".  In the college cafeteria example, the cost was subsidized by people outside coming in (who weren't on a meal plan, etc.).

 

 

 

[Istelathis]

58 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

So after a few days of the usual suspects plus the 'reddit is a fing honest' and a few because I am an oldbie and actually Ser P is worth reading... is it good or bad? Asking for the 95%+ of users who never come here.

I am thinking of a modest forum proposal - any that post here must be logged in at the same time.

🙃

 

It is good to waste time thinking about 😁 It might raise our dopamine levels, is it good, is it bad?  I dunno, I don't think it is bad but that might not be taken kindly 'round here.  It is fun to speculate about things, none of us hold the keys to this knowledge though.  Having little conspiracies to piece together for me is fun, but I never really put any faith in them, and usually have a laugh at some of them.  I like to take it a bit further, into the preposterous, to the point of insanity, and let the creativity run rampant.  Such as this is all going to lead to Elon Musk buying out SL, eventually requiring neural implants, and turning  SL into RL, because that is were the crumb trail leads, and anyone who doesn't agree is a sheeple!  

(written from undisclosed secret Mole base of operations)

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

I am thinking of a modest forum proposal - any that post here must be logged in at the same time.

I will do you one better. I propose they must be logged in (I presume you mean "to Second Life"), AND have their "away" mode set so that they go into the classic "slump" / "(Away)" when alt-tabbing to the Forums.

 

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

But, if you sold the cafeteria to an outside restaurant company it could be run more efficiently because that company already has the knowhow, staff and suppliers. 

Only downside: The management has no longer control over the prices charged by the outside restaurant company or about what will be on the menus: healthy or greasy fast food or only coffee with a doughnut or a brownie?

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

But, if you sold the cafeteria to an outside restaurant company it could be run more efficiently because that company already has the knowhow, staff and suppliers. 

Only downside: The management has no longer control over the prices charged by the outside restaurant company or about what will be on the menus: healthy or greasy fast food or only coffee with a doughnut or a brownie?

In my company's case, they PAID the other company to run the cafeterias.  Part of that payment was, in part, subsidizing prices for what was being sold.  If they didn't pay - then the prices would have been higher for that company to recoup its own expenses.

 

[sirhc DeSantis]

Interesting. That all who post in the forums (General) be logged in to our virtual world

Double plus bonus - at specific places.

Whats the prob`? We are all residents?

Are we not?

It is why we bother to post eh?

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

Double plus bonus - at specific places.

Possibly all sitting around the same table, having to "face" those we are disagreeing with?

Grand ideas! They'd have to actually wear clothing!

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

Peeve: Captain Oldbies constantly trying to find new ways to exclude people from the forum so they can complain the forums are empty.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Peeve: Captain Oldbies constantly trying to find new ways to exclude people from the forum so they can complain the forums are empty.

 

IKR? Back when I first started being more "outspoken", there were some who claimed people like me were killing the Forums. By posting. Some of them are still here.

P.S. I know you're too smart to have taken those "must be logged into SL" posts seriously. I sure didn't, they seemed like a joke to me.