Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Amazing how many straws people will grasp at ....

ETA: To say nothing of their presumptuous attitudes.

In all fairness you are 20 or so years my junior, so there is hope yet.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Ever experienced a queue? Ever returned an item because it didn't work out as you wanted? Ever had to return something because it was broken? If you want to go back to grab more demos because of a timer that's just yet another you-thing; a lot of us simply delete the item the instant we see the timer message and never go back to that store again. 

I'm a picky shopper and don't even demo an item unless I am quite convinced I want it. I wouldn't let a timed out demo stop me. Those who let such a small thing stop them were probably not really needing the item anyway.

[Solar Legion]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

In all fairness you are 20 or so years my junior, so there is hope yet.

Unless you are close to or above the average retirement age (in the US at the least) then you're quite a bit off on your presumption of my age/the supposed age gap between us.

I was six when the Berlin Wall fell - to use a historical event.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

9 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

I'm not looking to keep going around and around on it while people try to find some example or other such thing that will work to explain why the present directory structure of the inventory needs to change (it doesn't) or to try and change my mind on it (not happening).

Just to clarify, I don't think the inventory itself needs a massive change and I'm certainly not trying to convince you it does. What I'm saying is overall, SL could benefit from making itself a bit more familiar to potential new users in general. What that looks like, I don't know. I play way too many games, each with wildly different systems and ways of handling that, so it's impossible for me to guess.

I agree with you that SL's needs are pretty complex and I don't know what an up-to-date refresh would even look like. I'm thankful it's not my job to figure that out, that's for sure. 😂

I will bow out, though, as I didn't intend to pile on and the convo appears to be going...places.

 🏃‍♀️ 💨

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Just to clarify, I don't think the inventory itself needs a massive change and I'm certainly not trying to convince you it does. What I'm saying is overall, SL could benefit from making itself a bit more familiar to potential new users in general. What that looks like, I don't know. I play way too many games, each with wildly different systems and ways of handling that, so it's impossible for me to guess.

I agree with you that SL's needs are pretty complex and I don't know what an up-to-date refresh would even look like. I'm thankful it's not my job to figure that out, that's for sure. 😂

I will bow out, though, as I didn't intend to pile on and the convo appears to be going...places.

 🏃‍♀️ 💨

No worries.

In all honesty I really should not be bothering to respond to some of those I have responded to thus far - they've shown in the past that they're the sort to champion "change for the sake of it" (no real meaning whatsoever to such a change, no worth to said changes).

I am welcome to be proven wrong but for that to happen, the changes would need to be implemented and not be so drastic as to cause further problems.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

I am welcome to be proven wrong but for that to happen, the changes would need to be implemented and not be so drastic as to cause further problems.

This right here is the maaaaajor challenge Second Life faces going forward (I know, I know, I was supposed to be going...one more response, I promise, LOL).

How does it give itself just the right amount of makeover to appeal to both the current and future userbase? Is that even necessary or is there something else that's turning off newbies who try it and leave? Etc. Honestly at this point, I think the only way for LL to figure that out is to start doing actual research and talk to new and older residents (if they haven't yet already). Have some in-world meetings and discussion groups, send surveys, do some livestreams with user participation. Going in without all that and grabbing a system from, say, The Sims 4, might prove to be a whole disaster - not just in driving off current users, but breaking just about everything in the process. For as much as I'd LOVE to see some sort of snazzy character creator (better than what came with the Senra avies), imagine fitting 150,000+ inventory items into it and how much fire and mayhem that'd cause from just my inventory alone! 👀🤣

As to the rest, I didn't reply with the intention of proving you or anyone else wrong, and I hope I didn't come across that way. ❤️ You might be entirely right for all I know and maybe it's something completely different that's messing with newbie retention. I admit that some of my desire to see SL "get with the times" a bit has EVERYTHING to do with my own frustrations with navigating 600 different mesh bodies and heads and the annoyance of such, I'M JUST SAYIN'! 😄

 

[Rowan Amore]

37 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I'm a picky shopper and don't even demo an item

That's an oxymoron...Just sayin'

[Arielle Popstar]

12 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Unless you are close to or above the average retirement age (in the US at the least) then you're quite a bit off on your presumption of my age/the supposed age gap between us.

I was six when the Berlin Wall fell - to use a historical event.

Oh ok, you are even younger then I thought. 6 years before the Berlin wall fell I was deciding whether to learn COBOL or Fortran and opted instead for computer aided design and manufacturing link so I do know my way around directory systems and sorry in an application such as SL, there are better ways that are more efficient for old and young for an inventory of virtual goods. A text based hierarchy of virtual goods might have been great 50 years ago but it is in no way relevant for today. Who else even does it this way today???

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

41 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I'm a picky shopper and don't even demo an item

That's an oxymoron...Just sayin'

Maybe it means they just complain a lot about their purchases?

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Maybe it means they just complain a lot about their purchases?

I'm a picky buyer.  I wouldn't buy anything, even from a favorite store, if I couldn't demo it first.  Never.  

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

How does it give itself just the right amount of makeover to appeal to both the current and future userbase?

I think the new Mobile will answer that somewhat, since it is starting with "bupkis" functionality. Only the essentials as judged by someone-or-other are being added initially, and it would either be impossible or take forever to add "everything".  So, possibly whatever Mobile ends up as could reflect one type of "makeover" designed to "appeal to someone".

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That's an oxymoron...Just sayin'

Because you only quoted part of what I said. Finish the sentence: "don't even demo an item unless I am quite convinced I want it." I regularly put items in my cart or fave list for a day or two and then go back and look at the marketplace ad to see if I still want it and if so, then pick up a demo.

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Because you only quoted part of what I said. Finish the sentence: "don't even demo an item unless I am quite convinced I want it." I regularly put items in my cart or fave list for a day or two and then go back and look at the marketplace ad to see if I still want it and if so, then pick up a demo.

Here's the whole quote.  Regardless of whether I really want something or not, I'd be a fool (and not a very picky shopper) if I didn't demo.  My original comment stands..

A picky shopper will always demo an item.  A careless shopper will not.

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I'm a picky shopper and don't even demo an item unless I am quite convinced I want it. I wouldn't let a timed out demo stop me. Those who let such a small thing stop them were probably not really needing the item anyway.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Here's the whole quote.  Regardless of whether I really want something or not, I'd be a fool (and not a very picky shopper) if I didn't demo.  My original comment stands..

A picky shopper will always demo an item.  A careless shopper will not.

 

Ok, whatever.

[AmeliaJ08]

2 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said:

It's completely comparable. All you're telling me is that you have no idea how the next generation are actually using technology, or the knowledge they actually need to achieve the equivalent of what we have today.

What's all this talk of generations?

If we want to get into interface trends it has little to do with generations, it's largely about phones and mobile devices where you will rarely if ever see the directory structure. I know enough older people to know what computer skills or knowledge of things like a hierarchical file system they once had have been thrown out of the window by the emergence of IOS and Android as their primary operating systems.

 

 

 

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I just had a thought - the attachment point is determined by the root prim, which may not have been uploaded at all. In fact, if you're selling things based on full-perm meshes you're supposed to attach your own prim so you'll show up as the owner. Meaning that "setting attachment points on upload" would be a complete waste of time.

Everybody go look at the root prims in your worn mesh. I bet all the clothing and most of the hair has a simple prim root.  This means the creator had to set the attachment independently of uploading the mesh portion and they could use copies of the same root prim over and over with different meshes if they thought it was too much work to set the attachment point for a simple sphere or box. The only root prims that are mesh are those cute but superfluous internal organ root prims in some mesh body parts.

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Oh no, I have the ability to think critically.

I also have the ability to discern relevance - which there was none in bringing up programming languages of the past, at all.

Knowing how to use and navigate a directory structure is not whatsoever comparable.

Nice try.

The ability to figure out how to use old technology is the same as the ability to figure out how to use new technology. As long as it's new to you, it's a novel experience that requires critical thinking and drawing analogies from experiences you do know. I was able to learn how to use computer systems that were new to me, machinery that was new to me, and how to make sausages or mead with modern versions of centuries old techniques. Nobody is born knowing how to do stuff. Everything has to be learned at some point.

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Unless you are close to or above the average retirement age (in the US at the least) then you're quite a bit off on your presumption of my age/the supposed age gap between us.

I was six when the Berlin Wall fell - to use a historical event.

I think I was in college when the Berlin Wall fell? I remember being scared of the possibility of nuclear war long before anyone thought of global warming. I learned DOS in junior high and high school. I was an adult when I heard about other programing languages, but that wasn't my area of study. Still, I understood the basic idea of programing well enough to be able to learn a little of how to create and modify scripts in SL.

[Orwar]

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

This means the creator had to set the attachment independently of uploading the mesh portion and they could use copies of the same root prim over and over with different meshes if they thought it was too much work to set the attachment point for a simple sphere or box.

   True, except the root prim also will be set to the right hand as default if you just add it; the process for changing its attachment point is the same as for any sculptie or mesh, rigged or not.

   I would assume that most creators do bother to put something on as they upload it to at least see how it looks in-world before they box it and ship it; at that stage they're a mere button-click away from changing the attachment point.

[Solar Legion]

@Persephone Emerald: My response regarding the relevance of older programming languages had to do with an attempt at making an analogy between knowing said older languages and a directory structure such as one finds in the Second Life Inventory or in PCs - it was not relevant nor accurate whatsoever.

22 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

What's all this talk of generations?

If we want to get into interface trends it has little to do with generations, it's largely about phones and mobile devices where you will rarely if ever see the directory structure. I know enough older people to know what computer skills or knowledge of things like a hierarchical file system they once had have been thrown out of the window by the emergence of IOS and Android as their primary operating systems.

PCs do not utilize iOS or Android and (at least with most Android phones) such devices do still have file managers/browsers which do still utilize some form of directory structure/system presentation, albeit more in the form of a web browser style these days (my current phone has the current working path across the top).

To the casual, modern user ... yes, very few see or utilize such systems these days - a mistake if I am being honest in my thoughts as such exemplifies the over simplification I've mentioned before.

Think of me what you will but I rather dislike such oversimplification as to me it is another step closer to what should be an absurdity: Things being so simplified that if it takes more steps than pushing a singular button, people will be stumped at best and panic completely/break down at worst. There's a careful balance that ought to be maintained.

[Extrude Ragu]

22 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

an attempt at making an analogy between knowing said older languages and a directory structure such as one finds in the Second Life Inventory or in PCs - it was not relevant nor accurate whatsoever.

 

22 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

To the casual, modern user ... yes, very few see or utilize such systems these days

Right. so you are aware they don't use them, like at all. You just are hesitant to admit it.

[Kalegthepsionicist]

@Charlemagne Allen

not hard for me actually.

idk

early tome many think I am alts since i learn fast, I told them SL is not quantum physic, it is easy to understand.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

21 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I didn't know there was an attachment point alpha priority. This is something mesh body and clothing creators need to know.

It also makes even more sense now that root prims for mesh wearables need to be invisible. Stop with the brains, internal organs and prims with the store logo on them! These only contribute to texture loading lag.

20 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I made a thread on it when it came out.. They really need to sticky things some times..

I think there was a blog post about it from LL and then like usual, left up to the rest of us to get the word out..

Firestorm also shows the priority in the "attach to..." menu, it's the number at the end.

[Ceka Cianci]

16 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Firestorm also shows the priority in the "attach to..." menu, it's the number at the end.

Oh that's really neat!  Another quality of life addition.

Thank you, that is going to come in handy.

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 3/20/2024 at 9:35 AM, Charlemagne Allen said:

I like to find nice noobs, pass them some free "meme" avs so they don't look totally boring, and do something different, like sailing or flying or blowing up stuff. I find that's better than forcing them to fight with complex things like mesh bodies at first. What do you do with new players?

 

On 3/18/2024 at 9:56 AM, Charlemagne Allen said:

I've noticed that the number one frustration noobs have is the inability to customize their av. I try to explain it and even do screen shares and half of them do not get it at all. Guys will take meme avs, but women absolutely want a normal person av, and it's frustrating to not have an attractive stylish av. I know mesh bodies are weird, but it's interesting how the basic systems are also confusing. What's your experience with this?

Okay, tough love time - are you sure you should be the person trying to explain things like this? Mesh bodies have been the de-facto standard for ten years; new people are automatically given them now too. I'm not sure it would be a good idea for a drivers' training teacher to be saying, "You know? Cars are weird. They're like mechanical horses."

[Flea Yatsenko]

On 3/19/2024 at 11:55 AM, Persephone Emerald said:

Actually, with an increased use of free inventory management pictures for items, it might be possible to show multiple pictures within a system subfolder like in the picture above. 

I sure wish creators would include pictures with their products, btw. Why don't they do this if they already have an ad picture for the product?

LL has the marketplace. They have direct delivery. Surely they could include the primary image in the marketplace listing as an image when the product is delivered in world? Directories aren't going to work with the generation that grew up with iphones and androids and only searching for stuff.

Making product images the responsibility of the vendor is never going to work. There are too many vendors who don't update old listings or aren't even in SL anymore. They could easily just include the primary product image in inventory when the product is delivered in world. It's too late for stuff that has already been delivered but this is something new users need, not existing ones.

[Arielle Popstar]

18 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

 It's too late for stuff that has already been delivered but this is something new users need, not existing ones.

Good way too to separate the older listings.