Should Shop&Hop compete with Relay For Life?

[Qie Niangao]

There's only so much calendar, so if the Lab is in the very popular business of promoting these regular Shop&Hop events, it's probably inevitable that they'll overlap with the American Cancer Society-benefitting Relay For Life events, also very popular.

It was only very accidental that I even heard about the current "SL Living Expo" RFL event (Feb 2-16) and I was surprised not to really see promotions for it, but that could be just a "me" thing: I've had more than my usual distractions recently. On the other hand, I couldn't escape the Valentine Shop&Hop (Feb 1-19) on the Linden blog and elsewhere, so maybe there was some breakdown in SL Living Expo promotion?

Maybe this happens with all Shop&Hop events, especially if RFL holds holiday-adjacent events. It just seems to spread a little thin the attentions of shoppers and merchants.

[Sid Nagy]

If both events are initiated by the Lab, than coordination could indeed have been better IMHO.
I know Shop & Hop is a LL organized event, but is the RFL event one too, or is it one that LL participates in as facilitator\sponsor?  If the latter is the case, than these things can happen I guess, because than LL is in a supporting role, not in a leading one and the decisions about when and how are made by others.

And there are so many sales events going on in SL simultaneously (think about all the weekly, monthly, quarterly recurring shopping events and special sales), it is totally impossible for a merchant to participate in even a fraction of them or for a consumer to visit them all. In the end life (even the Second one) is about choices.
 

 

Edited February 4 by Sid Nagy

[Sid Nagy]

Oops, I should have taken my coffee first.

Edited February 4 by Sid Nagy
Double post.

[Alwin Alcott]

In general i don't mind if there are multiple at the same time, will only buy something what i like, and not for the purpose of the event.
I don't go to fundraiser events, i give that in RL to local organisations, why on earth should i give something to a American institute.

[Theresa Tennyson]

6 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

In general i don't mind if there are multiple at the same time, will only buy something what i like, and not for the purpose of the event.
I don't go to fundraiser events, i give that in RL to local organisations, why on earth should i give something to a American institute.

Because after all, Dutch people's cancer is completely different from American people's cancer.

[Qie Niangao]

5 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

In general i don't mind if there are multiple at the same time, will only buy something what i like, and not for the purpose of the event.
I don't go to fundraiser events, i give that in RL to local organisations, why on earth should i give something to a American institute.

Okay, but people do. Personally, I don't often find stuff I want very much (really, at any events lately), but I'm more inclined to stretch the envelope at RFL events because I feel it encourages the creators' support of the cause. That said, I need to have a sense that the charity is doing good things, as opposed to, say, Diagolon or a terrorist organization. They don't need to benefit me directly: I give to the Humane Society for example and those aren't even my species.

53 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

If both events are initiated by the Lab, than coordination could indeed have been better IMHO.
I know Shop & Hop is a LL organized event, but is the RFL event one too, or is it one that LL participates in as facilitator\sponsor?  If the latter is the case, than these things can happen I guess, because than LL is in a supporting role, not in a leading one and the decisions about when and how are made by others.

Yeah, probably the latter, but it's hard to imagine the RFL people couldn't know the S&H plans, so maybe this is just how it goes, year round every year; I honestly never paid attention before. What got me this time was surprise that the RFL event was even happening, but I'm wondering if that's just me and the entropy in my current schedule.

[Alwin Alcott]

13 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Because after all, Dutch people's cancer is completely different from American people's cancer.

that are your and clearly Luna's sick thoughts, not surprising to be honest,  but i didn't say that.
 

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

They don't need to benefit me directly:

same here, but still prefer to spend my money here where there are stricter rules for fundraisings.

[Gabriele Graves]

People should really read this and then decide for themselves about ACS and RFL: https://www.theodysseyonline.com/nobody-should-support-relay-life

[Qie Niangao]

4 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

still prefer to spend my money here where there are stricter rules for fundraisings

Probably true; there are differences between the US's 501(c)(3) and Canada's T3010, too. But it cuts both ways: the tougher the regulation, the more onerous the overhead in meeting those requirements, particularly for smaller scale local causes.

[Luna Bliss]

12 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

that are your and clearly Luna's sick thoughts, not surprising to be honest,  but i didn't say that.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

16 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

that are your and clearly Luna's sick thoughts, not surprising to be honest,  but i didn't say that.
 

We're supposed to be getting mirrors in Second Life. Could be interesting...

Although going back to the topic at hand, I don't see anything in Inara Pey's blog either and Inara generally covers RFL. It sounds like an outreach issue on the SL RFL people's side.

Edited February 4 by Theresa Tennyson

[Rat Luv]

4 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/nobody-should-support-relay-life

Finally, the most overwhelming of all: in 2010, the ACS donated just one penny ($0.01) for every dollar donation it received.

 If true...that is an INSANE amount...

This seems to be the problem with a lot of the big charities though...

 

[Luna Bliss]

14 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

People should really read this and then decide for themselves about ACS and RFL: https://www.theodysseyonline.com/nobody-should-support-relay-life

Other articles have different stats, citing that anywhere from 50 to 70 percent donated goes into research (not only 1% like your article states).

My concern relates to 'races for the cure' that only benefit big pharma while ignoring others that don't, but the issues are complicated.

[Love Zhaoying]

Maybe the people who run Shop&Hop love cancer!  Did you ever think about that?

What about freedom of speech, huh?!?

Is there only room for one viewpoint, "anti-cancer"?!? This is no longer America!!!

 

[Luna Bliss]

24 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

People should really read this and then decide for themselves about ACS and RFL: https://www.theodysseyonline.com/nobody-should-support-relay-life

Bad source:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/06/thousands-of-college-kids-are-behind-odyssey-clickbait-publishing-platform.html

[Qie Niangao]

I have no position one way or another about ACS, but I sure don't know where the Odyssey article got its data (from 2010). ACS must file a Form 990 every year to the IRS, so it's all public record. ProPublica has a handy Nonprofit Explorer that's one starting place for somebody with more of an accounting background. Also, GiveWell had a (2010) report analyzing how ACS programs spent donations on categories of patient support, prevention, detection/treatment, and research (it's more about supporting patients and informing the public and health professionals than research). 

 

[Garnet Psaltery]

I'm taking part in Relay for Life in several ways, including Expo, which is one of the many resident-led events.  I've no idea what the Linden involvement is; I saw no Lindens during construction or when the event began, but mostly have seen Roxy and Cody Chronotis and other residents working hard at it.  I've criticised RFL myself in the past and I've heard the stories about the amount of money earmarked for research - no-one's yet mentioned the other things they do like help people get to treatment or the survivors' network.  It may well be that the top staff get millions; I don't care any more, as RFL does actually provide some funding for research and it's something I can take part in.  To supply another answer to the topic question, I'll mention that I went round Shop and Hop before the Expo even began through the simple expedient of belonging to the SL Birthday group.

[PheebyKatz]

I know they blow loads on fundraising and paying people, so does the Red Cross. Every non-profit is a business, whether anyone wants to admit it or not. But some do some actual good, too. I've always been willing to support RFL in Second Life, even if it's just to make myself feel better.

I can't donate to things the way a lot of people can, so I can't support any organizations financially, really, but I've helped with RFL events, and it does feel better than doing nothing. My dad took his own life rather than suffer through yet another round of treatments. Maybe helping people raise funds to throw parties doesn't do as much good as I would like, but it does something, and it helps me feel like there's something that can actually be done.

Sometimes being able to have some hope is better than nothing.

[Luna Bliss]

41 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said:

I know they blow loads on fundraising and paying people, so does the Red Cross. Every non-profit is a business, whether anyone wants to admit it or not. But some do some actual good, too. I've always been willing to support RFL in Second Life, even if it's just to make myself feel better.

I can't donate to things the way a lot of people can, so I can't support any organizations financially, really, but I've helped with RFL events, and it does feel better than doing nothing. My dad took his own life rather than suffer through yet another round of treatments. Maybe helping people raise funds to throw parties doesn't do as much good as I would like, but it does something, and it helps me feel like there's something that can actually be done.

Sometimes being able to have some hope is better than nothing.

I agree with your thoughts here...it's not perfect but it does some good.

No need to denigrate it because it's not perfect.

[Sid Nagy]

Wow this thread outlived it's usefulness quickly.
It must be weekend.

 

[Rowan Amore]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

There's only so much calendar, so if the Lab is in the very popular business of promoting these regular Shop&Hop events, it's probably inevitable that they'll overlap with the American Cancer Society-benefitting Relay For Life events, also very popular.

It was only very accidental that I even heard about the current "SL Living Expo" RFL event (Feb 2-16) and I was surprised not to really see promotions for it, but that could be just a "me" thing: I've had more than my usual distractions recently. On the other hand, I couldn't escape the Valentine Shop&Hop (Feb 1-19) on the Linden blog and elsewhere, so maybe there was some breakdown in SL Living Expo promotion?

Maybe this happens with all Shop&Hop events, especially if RFL holds holiday-adjacent events. It just seems to spread a little thin the attentions of shoppers and merchants.

Well, I stopped by the Living Expo and to be perfectly honest, it was a confusing mess IMO.   I wouldn't really consider it much of a shopping event and it's poorly set up.  It looks nice, don't get me wrong, but it's the type of build I absolutely hate when shopping.  Unless shopping wasn't a primary focus?  Maybe they get more people when some of the actual events are going on but there was a handful of people there while I wandered around aimlessly.  No one was there when I arrived.  

It's not really something that would be considered 'in competition' with the Shop & Hop.

[Chic Aeon]

4 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

People should really read this and then decide for themselves about ACS and RFL: https://www.theodysseyonline.com/nobody-should-support-relay-life

I and many other creators gave up supporting when after paying (the spots are not free)  and making donation items (I never minded that part at all) the participants found out the the money was going to build a hotel in Africa.  We were not ASKED f we wanted to support building a hotel in Africa.   This is not my idea of good use of money and yes many many charities are not really charities at all. 

I lived in New Mexico for awhile and once a year the fire department (volunteer in part) had a fund raising and the firemen would take trucks out to shopping center parking lots  You could donate DIRECTLY to them. I always donated and always gave cash so that if the fireman in question wanted to take it home and buy groceries or whatever at least I knew it was going to a FIREMAN

 

Linden Lab has always been supportive of RFL events -- taking part, giving talks, letting the sims stay  up longer than their originally slated time; but in the past anyway the events were always privately run.  I don't really know anything about this new one (last year was the first I believe when the person that ran the H and G RFL Home Expo decided to stop).  

PS. It MAY be (no idea just guessing) that the websites that usually list events have policies about not listing charity events. Hence not much coverage. I am trying to remember if I have ever seen any (non-paid) advertisements at the prominent listing sites.  There WAS more coverage last year as I remember but I think it was basically through the official LL blog.  A little fuzzy on that so only conjecture. 

Edited February 4 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[Zalificent Corvinus]

One of my RL neighbours was, before they retired, a charity fund raiser.

They raised money for the Anthony Nolan Trust, and Marie Curie.

ANT provides bone marrow transplants / stem cell transplants for people, mostly children, with various blood cancers, they pride them selves on spending the majority of donations on doing exactly that, and only about 10% on fundraising and admin.

MC provides hospice care for terminal patients, many with cancer, and again prides it's self on spending most of the donations on that care..

 

Neither of them have executives on multi-million dollar salaries, neither of them build hotels in Africa.

 

So, yeah, American Cancer is different to Foreign Cancer. It's a corporate business opportunity, exploiting "tax deductible feelgood virtue signalling payments", sell people a nice t-shirt, or a bumper sticker, and spend the cash on comfy leather executive luxury office chairs, and fat salaries, and fatter index linked pensions.

 

I would have extreme doubts about donating to "non-profits" in the USA, that's kind of the problem right there. "Non-profit company, rather than a non corporate charitable trust. Running a BUSINESS that pretends it's a "charity".

 

Edited February 4 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Qie Niangao]

14 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

 (last year was the first I believe when the person that ran the H and G RFL Home Expo decided to stop)

Oh, I didn't know that. I wondered why the change.

Regarding event listing sites, I found that Seraphim indeed does list it in its "Fairs and One-Time Events" category (which I don't often check). I see that last year it featured in the Modemworld blog but not until March 7, when it would close just five days later (so it may yet appear there this year, too). That timing suggests it was a few weeks later on the calendar last year. That post also highlights some significant Linden involvement last time: 

Quote

… the Expo will include a number of special Linden Auctions, including:

• Dinner with the Lindens: enjoy a relaxing dinner over the course of an hour with Patch Linden and three of his friends and three friends of your own.
• A Premium Plus Subscription Package comprising:
  TWO 12-month Premium Plus Subscriptions – one for you and one to gift to a friend.
  A Homestead Region with no monthly maintenance fees for 12 months.
• A 12-month Premium Plus Subscription.
• A 3-month Premium Plus Subscription.
• A 12-Month Premium Subscription.
• One free name change.
• A 1-hour Hangout/photo time with Patch.

which I don't see promoted this time (unless I missed it) but such auctions sound familiar from another recent RFL event, though I forget which.

Performances probably act as promotion for the event overall, through the performers' networks of fans.

Besides fundraising, these events include information that raises awareness and educates, so that has some value towards the organization's program objectives.

It may seem as if I'm shilling for RFL but my past involvement (other than a little shopping) was limited to writing a script widely used for a couple years at the old Home and Garden event.

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I and many other creators gave up supporting when after paying (the spots are not free)  and making donation items (I never minded that part at all) the participants found out the the money was going to build a hotel in Africa.  We were not ASKED f we wanted to support building a hotel in Africa.   This is not my idea of good use of money and yes many many charities are not really charities at all. 

Hey I have some problems with the American Cancer Society (too much support of Big Pharma and not enough support for less lucrative treatments) but you guys need to do some simple googling before having a misplaced activist episode:

American Cancer Society Hope Lodge® communities offer a home away from home for people facing cancer and their caregivers when cancer treatment is far away.

What is a Hope Lodge community?

Our 30+ Hope Lodge communities across the country provide a free place to stay during treatment so people with cancer can focus on getting better. These communities provide comfortable guest suites with private baths, as well as inviting spaces with all the comforts of home, including a communal kitchen, dining area, laundry rooms, and places to gather or find a quiet respite – all at no cost to guests.

Hope Lodge guests don’t just find a place to stay – they find a community of support and an emotional connection with others facing the same journey.

https://www.cancer.org/support-programs-and-services/patient-lodging/hope-lodge.html

Edited February 4 by Luna Bliss