Should Shop&Hop compete with Relay For Life?

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

Besides fundraising, these events include information that raises awareness and educates, so that has some value towards the organization's program objectives.

It may seem as if I'm shilling for RFL

You're not "shilling"...you're adding some needed reality into the thread -- much of RFL relates to support for SL residents dealing with cancer (or loved ones dealing with it) and raising awareness.

Many of the residents who participate in RFL often have close family members who died or were dying from the disease, and it gives them hope when they come together in mutual support and attempt to provide awareness and a bit of $ to combat the problem.

They were SO nice to me when they discovered my daughter had fatal brain cancer, and it felt like I found my family.

Edited February 4 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

I don't know...something is wrong with this forum when people have to apologize for saying something POSITIVE about most ANYthing...by warning others they're not "shilling".

[Krystina Ferraris]

58 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

They were SO nice to me when they discovered my daughter had fatal brain cancer, and it felt like I found my family.

I’m so sorry to hear that Luna, I’m glad you found comfort and help in RFL

[Luna Bliss]

5 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Well, I stopped by the Living Expo and to be perfectly honest, it was a confusing mess IMO.   I wouldn't really consider it much of a shopping event and it's poorly set up.

These are garden setups!  I know, it's hard, I had to walk a bit and never found a new outfit for my lil butt in over 10 minutes!    Trying the next region over...

[Chic Aeon]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Hey I have some problems with the American Cancer Society (too much support of Big Pharma and not enough support for less lucrative treatments) but you guys need to do some simple googling before having a misplaced activist episode:

American Cancer Society Hope Lodge® communities offer a home away from home for people facing cancer and their caregivers when cancer treatment is far away.

What is a Hope Lodge community?

Our 30+ Hope Lodge communities across the country provide a free place to stay during treatment so people with cancer can focus on getting better. These communities provide comfortable guest suites with private baths, as well as inviting spaces with all the comforts of home, including a communal kitchen, dining area, laundry rooms, and places to gather or find a quiet respite – all at no cost to guests.

Hope Lodge guests don’t just find a place to stay – they find a community of support and an emotional connection with others facing the same journey.

https://www.cancer.org/support-programs-and-services/patient-lodging/hope-lodge.html

I did know all that. My point was (and for others) RFL and  event owners didn't ASK the folks that had ALREADY "donated"  hefty booth fees plus making donation items that payments  all went to RFL ----- if the money we gave could go to this hotel in Africa when we thought we were donating to folks at "home". 

I have nothing against Africa or any other country (and I do many any other country as it is not the citizens that start the wars in my book -- people are people I have found) but that RFL changed where the money was going after the fact. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.  If folks CHOOSE to support that type of work then great, but some of us like to know what the money we are giving is going to.    

 

[Luna Bliss]

6 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I did know all that. My point was (and for others) RFL and  event owners didn't ASK the folks that had ALREADY "donated"  hefty booth fees plus making donation items that payments  all went to RFL ----- if the money we gave could go to this hotel in Africa when we thought we were donating to folks at "home". 

I have nothing against Africa or any other country (and I do many any other country as it is not the citizens that start the wars in my book -- people are people I have found) but that RFL changed where the money was going after the fact. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.  If folks CHOOSE to support that type of work then great, but some of us like to know what the money we are giving is going to.    

I totally support any person's choice to donate to whatever cause they desire. And I understand it can feel safer and more satisfying to see the results of your contribution right before your eyes in your own community.

But I think there's a misunderstanding about the African hotel.  The American Cancer Society has projects all over the world -- they partner with other health organizations in numerous countries. So it's not like they suddenly changed where the money went after you already donated, because they were already using our donations outside the US for years.  Likely someone in SL, not knowing how a large entity like the ACS operates, became aware that one of these global initiatives involved a hotel in Africa being built and created an unnecessary conflict for people to freak out over.

The ACS has investments (like the hotel). Isn't that a good way to procure money for cancer research (through those who pay to stay at a hotel for a conference or whatnot)?  It might even be a better way to fund their projects than getting monies from us small fish out in the world through donations, or at the very least a nice adjunct.

And perhaps they borrowed money for the initial hotel costs, bypassing donations altogether even.

Edited February 5 by Luna Bliss

[Qie Niangao]

Some truth maintenance:

15 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

That post also highlights some significant Linden involvement last time:

Quote

… the Expo will include a number of special Linden Auctions, including:

• Dinner with the Lindens: enjoy a relaxing dinner over the course of an hour with Patch Linden and three of his friends and three friends of your own.
• A Premium Plus Subscription Package comprising:
  TWO 12-month Premium Plus Subscriptions – one for you and one to gift to a friend.
  A Homestead Region with no monthly maintenance fees for 12 months.
• A 12-month Premium Plus Subscription.
• A 3-month Premium Plus Subscription.
• A 12-Month Premium Subscription.
• One free name change.
• A 1-hour Hangout/photo time with Patch.

Expand  

which I don't see promoted this time (unless I missed it) …

Yep, I missed it, but stumbled on it today in-world. (Still can't find it on the event website but I'm obviously an unreliable scout.) The auction vendors show:

• Dinner with the Lindens
• 12 month premium account subscrption
• 6 month premium account subscription
• Name Change (from existing last name pool) — two auctions
• Pick a Linden Home name (subject to approval by Linden Lab)

(I don't see where it actually says these are donated by the Lab, but surely they are.)

Edited February 5 by Qie Niangao

[PheebyKatz]

18 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I totally support any person's choice to donate to whatever cause they desire. And I understand it can feel safer and more satisfying to see the results of your contribution right before your eyes in your own community.

But I think there's a misunderstanding about the African hotel.  The American Cancer Society has projects all over the world -- they partner with other health organizations in numerous countries. So it's not like they suddenly changed where the money went after you already donated, because they were already using our donations outside the US for years.  Likely someone in SL, not knowing how a large entity like the ACS operates, became aware that one of these global initiatives involved a hotel in Africa being built and created an unnecessary conflict for people to freak out over.

The ACS has investments (like the hotel). Isn't that a good way to procure money for cancer research (through those who pay to stay at a hotel for a conference or whatnot)?  It might even be a better way to fund their projects than getting monies from us small fish out in the world through donations, or at the very least a nice adjunct.

And perhaps they borrowed money for the initial hotel costs, bypassing donations altogether even.

It's also easy for people to get upset over "foreigners" benefiting from donations. Especially places like, say, Africa. I bet they intentionally chose to "inform about" the Africa thing because they knew it would have a stronger effect than anything else they could have said. It worked, they got people upset, and did their part to damage something through word of mouth.

Heck, they even got someone to post about it on the forums. Talk about effective Prop. Machiavelli would be so proud.

Nice to see so many people contributing positively to the lives of others, keeping them safe from those darned Africans stealing all the donations so they can have a free hotel, eh?

Those darn, lazy, thieving, dirty-looking Africans.

Protip: Charities are businesses. They do whatever they need to do to survive and thrive, like any business. And like any business, they have competition and haters, as well as brand loyalists and supporters.

But I'd rather help out at an RFL event than pooh-pooh it all because it might not be serving me the way I expect at some other business, like McDonald's, or something. They aren't in business to serve us, they're in business to make a living, and they actually help some people who need it. That part is why I support them.

Edited February 5 by PheebyKatz

[Gabriele Graves]

I guess it's also easy for some people to miss the point by @Chic Aeon that was being made despite it being explained more than once.  It's also easy to cast aspersions against their motivations.

Finally, I also guess that the easiest thing is to attack any narrative that deviates from the one that allows them to feel better about themselves as people by throwing a few pennies into a pot without questioning where that is going.
 

[Rowan Amore]

20 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

It's also easy to cast aspersions against their motivations.

But is anyone surprised?

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, PheebyKatz said:

It's also easy for people to get upset over "foreigners" benefiting from donations. Especially places like, say, Africa. I bet they intentionally chose to "inform about" the Africa thing because they knew it would have a stronger effect than anything else they could have said. It worked, they got people upset, and did their part to damage something through word of mouth.

Heck, they even got someone to post about it on the forums. Talk about effective Prop. Machiavelli would be so proud.

Nice to see so many people contributing positively to the lives of others, keeping them safe from those darned Africans stealing all the donations so they can have a free hotel, eh?

Those darn, lazy, thieving, dirty-looking Africans.

Yes, there are those whose goals are to disrupt society -- those who are bigots and now use sneaky ways to achieve their ends.  No way of knowing, of course, if this was what began the whole "we don't want our monies to go to Africa in the form of a hotel" fiasco, but it has to be considered. They would know that those who favor boundaries between nations regarding charity would be ripe pickings in their pursuit of damaging a worthwhile project.  Incidentally, I know of one such person whose aim was to disrupt, an avowed bigot, "helping" with the MoTown project here. I had to bite my lip not to complain, but I feared getting blamed for being the messenger.

 

[PheebyKatz]

1 hour ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I guess it's also easy for some people to miss the point by @Chic Aeon that was being made despite it being explained more than once.  It's also easy to cast aspersions against their motivations.

Finally, I also guess that the easiest thing is to attack any narrative that deviates from the one that allows them to feel better about themselves as people by throwing a few pennies into a pot without questioning where that is going.
 

Yeah, death of a loved one can make people act like stupid idiots. I hope you never end up stupid and sentimental and wishing you could feel a little better about it, because it hurts inside, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Actually, you know, you're right. I'mma play it smart and just chuck my feelings and stuff. Who cares about it, anyway? If I can't give money to people directly, why do anything? I'll save time that I could spend on playing dress-up, save L$ I could spend on being pretty, and feel like I'm superior to all of those other fools who think they're doing any good by trying to help others who might not use every penny of it to:

1) Support a research community that makes a living off of people having cancer,

2) Support a medical community that makes a living off of sick people,

and, 3) Support those who are suffering due to loss or illness of the people they love.

I mean, why bother? It's all BS anyway! Just like, ohhh, life itself. We're all just here temporarily, so why bother doing anything at all? It's all for nothing, right?

Intelligent people know better than to waste their time on anything that doesn't pander directly to what they want, right here and now. YOLO~!

Not all of us have the ability to donate money to anything. Some of us will settle for assisting events that are connected to charities. If anyone wants to call me a fool for doing that, they know my answer already. Putting me down is getting old and people should maybe take a break from it now and then.

Don't kid yourselves, even pooh-poohing a charity is happening so people can feel better about not giving to it. Point the finger of scorn all you want, it only shows the truth. And not the one you want it to show.

Edited February 5 by PheebyKatz

[Love Zhaoying]

41 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

1 hour ago, Gabriele Graves said:

It's also easy to cast aspersions against their motivations.

But is anyone surprised?

I myself have Aspersion's Syndrome, and am constantly surprising myself. 

[Luna Bliss]

56 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Finally, I also guess that the easiest thing is to attack any narrative that deviates from the one that allows them to feel better about themselves as people by throwing a few pennies into a pot without questioning where that is going.
 

This paints people who give to charities in an unfavorable light. Many give to charities because they care about the world and want to help make it a better place. And ultimately, they are smart enough to know that it's more than likely this will be the disease (cancer) that takes their own life or the life of one they love.

Such a theory as yours deems those who care as frauds, and positions those who think only of themselves as valid.

Nobody said it's wrong to question where money is going when one donates to a cause, but it is advantageous to develop awareness when making our decisions.

[PheebyKatz]

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, there are those whose goals are to disrupt society -- those who are bigots and now use sneaky ways to achieve their ends.  No way of knowing, of course, if this was what began the whole "we don't want our monies to go to Africa in the form of a hotel" fiasco, but it has to be considered. They would know that those who favor boundaries between nations regarding charity would be ripe pickings in their pursuit of damaging a worthwhile project.  Incidentally, I know of one such person whose aim was to disrupt, an avowed bigot, "helping" with the MoTown project here. I had to bite my lip not to complain, but I feared getting blamed for being the messenger.

 

What gets me is they really think that nobody sees it. How arrogant, to assume everyone is so stupid they can't smell a rotten egg just because it's painted all colorful.

[Gabriele Graves]

Seems like I hit a nerve.  Perhaps people who say awful things about others shouldn't be surprised when there is push back.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

On a somewhat different note, I have a friend who thinks that the absolute domination of RFL and its spinoffs in SL is unfortunate in that it is sucking up all the oxygen that might be shared with other charitable causes. It's not that she's against RFL or charities supporting cancer research, support for the victims of cancer, etc.; it just dominates everything to such a degree that there's little space, energy, or money left for any other issues.

I'm a bit agnostic on this myself, but I will say that there is a HUGE difference between the kinds of support that RFL events get, from residents generally but also in terms of donations, buy-in from creators and sim owners, etc., and that accorded to other groups and issues. I regularly attended the RAINN benefit, "I Said No," that was hosted here for a few years (I think three -- the last one that I know of was 2022), and the relative neglect of that charitable cause is really evident.

I don't know if that is just because people care more about cancer research, or if the RFL people are just better organized, more capable, and/or have better relationships with LL, but it's certainly true that it puts pretty much every other charitable cause in the shade.

[Luna Bliss]

10 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said:

Intelligent people know better than to waste their time on anything that doesn't pander directly to what they want, right here and now. YOLO~!

Not all of us have the ability to donate money to anything. Some of us will settle for assisting events that are connected to charities. If anyone wants to call me a fool for doing that, they know my answer already. Putting me down is getting old and people should maybe take a break from it now and then.

Don't kid yourselves, even pooh-poohing a charity is happening so people can feel better about not giving to it.

I think in your sarcasm here you've hit the nail on the head!

[PheebyKatz]

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

This paints people who give to charities in an unfavorable light. Many give to charities because they care about the world and want to help make it a better place. And ultimately, they are smart enough to know that it's more than likely this will be the disease (cancer) that takes their own life or the life of one they love.

Such a theory as yours deems those who care as frauds, and positions those who think only of themselves as valid.

Nobody said it's wrong to question where money is going when one donates to a cause, but it is advantageous to develop awareness when making our decisions.

Noooo, we're all stupid and lazy for doing it. Those stupid pennies, and all. I mean, I spent days making scenery and things for an event, and it didn't cost me any real money, so it was worthless. We're stupid people doing worthless things, so anyone who isn't doing this can feel better about themselves not wasting time on worthlessness the way we do.

I mean, where do I get off thinking that contributing to a charity does anything of worth? What a waste, right? A stupid person wasting time on a worthless endeavor, what good and righteous person wouldn't want to save me from my own stupidity?

I'm grateful for it. See you guys later, I'm heading to the Shop 'n' Hop. At least people actually benefit from that. Some of them might even post in this thread, who knows? I'm sure they'll do it selflessly and intelligently when they do. They're not stupid like us cancer kids.

Edited February 5 by PheebyKatz

[Love Zhaoying]

I am missing the point of whether we should support "Shop & Hop" or "Relay for Life".

Too much noise caused by Drama to see any serious discussion regarding posed by the OP.

Whether someone likes the ACS or not seems to be "off topic".  (Can't help yourselves, I know..)

 

 

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

On a somewhat different note, I have a friend who thinks that the absolute domination of RFL and its spinoffs in SL is unfortunate in that it is sucking up all the oxygen that might be shared with other charitable causes. It's not that she's against RFL or charities supporting cancer research, support for the victims of cancer, etc.; it just dominates everything to such a degree that there's little space, energy, or money left for any other issues.

I'm a bit agnostic on this myself, but I will say that there is a HUGE difference between the kinds of support that RFL events get, from residents generally but also in terms of donations, buy-in from creators and sim owners, etc., and that accorded to other groups and issues. I regularly attended the RAINN benefit, "I Said No," that was hosted here for a few years (I think three -- the last one that I know of was 2022), and the relative neglect of that charitable cause is really evident.

I don't know if that is just because people care more about cancer research, or if the RFL people are just better organized, more capable, and/or have better relationships with LL, but it's certainly true that it puts pretty much every other charitable cause in the shade.

It's true there are many causes that need help.  I say to them....get off your butt and compete if you have a cause you'd like to see more in focus here.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

if this was what began the whole "we don't want our monies to go to Africa in the form of a hotel" fiasco

It started when an AMERICAN spoke out against a non-american saying they would rather donate to a cancer victim support charity in THIER OWN country, than to a cancer victim support charity in another country.

An American "charity" that apparently specialises in support rather than research, building an hotel in Africa, is almost certainly NOT building it for use by AFRICANS. Providing over-seas holidays for SOME American Cancer sufferers is not them providing for all the worlds cancer victims.

If I as a Brit, want to donate to Cancer support, I'll donate to Marie Curie, in the UK, if I want to support cancer research, I'll donate to a UK based cancer research charity, in the knowledge that the cure will be available to ALL cancer victims in the UK regardless of their "credit scoring results".

 

What I won't do is support some non charity that promises to give the money to a charity in another country, that will waste most of it, and do so with NO intention of helping anyone out side THEIR country.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's true there are many causes that need help.  I say to them....get off your butt and compete if you have a cause you'd like to see more in focus here.

Perhaps? But, again, I've seen events that did highlight other causes -- and were clearly the result of a lot of work -- which did not receive a great deal of support.

Maybe they're just not as good at it? Maybe people care less? I'm not sure. But I think "get off your butt and compete" is maybe a bit of a reductive response given the complexities involved in doing something like this (and I do speak with some minor experience on this matter).

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, PheebyKatz said:

Noooo, we're all stupid and lazy for doing it. Those stupid pennies, and all. I mean, I spent days making scenery and things for an event, an d it didn't cost me any real money, so it was worthless. We're stupid people doing worthless things, so anyone who isn't doing this can feel better about themselves not wasting time on worthlessness the way we do.

Yep, all I can say is that it helps to remember that those who cast doubt on your desire and actions to do good behave this way because they have no love in their heart and so no motivation to do good themselves -- they can't even imagine it because they're unable to do so themselves.  So pray for them, send good vibes so they learn to know love, or something!....is my way to cope with it.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's true there are many causes that need help.  I say to them....get off your butt and compete if you have a cause you'd like to see more in focus here.

Perhaps? But, again, I've seen events that did highlight other causes -- and were clearly the result of a lot of work -- which did not receive a great deal of support.

Maybe they're just not as good at it? Maybe people care less? I'm not sure. But I think "get off your butt and compete" is maybe a bit of a reductive response given the complexities involved in doing something like this (and I do speak with some minor experience on this matter).

Are you meaning support from LL?