Should Shop&Hop compete with Relay For Life?

[Rat Luv]

To be fair, RFL always clashes with other events though...for a lot of musicians booked to play a RFL benefit,  it's just another slot in a weekend of performances. Though I did have to tell one off a bit when I was hosting him and he rezzed his personal tip jar during his set  

I had two major disasters hosting RFL events...but might be a bit off-topic 

It's cool if LL are getting directly involved, I think Torley did a tour of RFL camps at one time but as usual I was AFK or missed him 

 

[Luna Bliss]

When does the time come, anyway, when you are "only giving to others" and not yourself, and so can escape the judgement of those who want to label people who desire to make the world a better place as somehow 'false'.

When you give to others, you give to yourself.  Always. That's how it works.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Whether you need validation for 'doing a good thing' or for pointing fingers at others for being bad/wrong in your eyes (so that you can feel good about yourself), it's the same thing -- a need for validation because you don't have a strong sense of self.

You REALLY need to STOP with the !"Flunked out of amateur hobbyist shopping-mall psychology 101 evening classes at Dr. Ripoff's School of Chakra Abuse"

Adding gratuitous personal abuse about my "sense of self" is just complete BS on your part.

Claiming that anyone who doesn't agree with your totally self centred BS is "spiritually defective" isn't a good tactic.

 

I'm pointing fingers at arrogant people who think that everyone in the world should donate to charities in America, and nowhere else.

 

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

or being negative about life.

I'm negative here about self centred and obvious parasites. $600 million a year on fat pensions for fat corporate executives? That' not "charity" in my book.

 

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I'm negative here about self centred and obvious parasites. $600 million a year on fat pensions for fat corporate executives? That' not "charity" in my book.

The CEO of the American Cancer Society earns 1 million a year, considerably less than most business CEO's

In any case, you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater -- the ACS does quite a bit of good in the world.  Would you leave SL or totally trash it because our top execs earn far more than you'd like?  Of course not, because there's a lot of good here.

[Garnet Psaltery]

Of course it's perfectly possible to donate to RFL and UK cancer charities - Macmillan Cancer Support, for instance, who have been wonderful in helping me through a difficult year, and I've helped them too.

It's also possible to go to both the big events in the topic title.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

You REALLY need to STOP with the !"Flunked out of amateur hobbyist shopping-mall psychology 101 evening classes at Dr. Ripoff's School of Chakra Abuse"

Adding gratuitous personal abuse about my "sense of self" is just complete BS on your part.

Claiming that anyone who doesn't agree with your totally self centred BS is "spiritually defective" isn't a good tactic.

The problem is that you're so negative about everything in SL that I don't trust your perceptions about ANYthing anymore.  It seems to me that trashing things is more important than truth. 

So given that, I don't give your perceptions of charities here any weight. You'd have to show me you see the positive aspects too.  Nothing is ever all black & white.

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Cain Maven said:

RFL and its events aside, perhaps a bigger question is whether Linden Lab should run events at all? They are obviously competing directly with all resident-run events.

LL competes with the land barons as well with mainland and Belli, it competes with the house rental market with Belli, it competes with the body market with the new mesh avatars. And yes, it competes with event organizers.
They own the place, so they can, I guess.

[Cain Maven]

3 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

LL competes with the land barons as well with mainland and Belli, it competes with the house rental market with Belli, it competes with the body market with the new mesh avatars. And yes, it competes with event organizers.
They own the place, so they can, I guess.

Can? Yes. Should? That's an open question, I think.

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

I'm all for snowball fights and birthday celebrations.

But now that you mention it, I realize I'm not quite sure why the Shop&Hop events are necessary. They seem to be popular though, so they must be serving a purpose, it's just not obvious to me why that niche isn't filled by resident-run events.

LL can trow in enough regions for mega events, without blinking with their eyes. We all pay for them.
Good luck if we (as non Lindens) want to organize an event on such scale.

And for the Lab it is internal advertising and showcasing as well.
 

Edited February 5 by Sid Nagy

[Sid Nagy]

1 minute ago, Cain Maven said:

Can? Yes. Should? That's an open question, I think.

They need to keep the place afloat and so they do what they think that is needed to keep people hanging around.
That is where they make the money. And of course their own money making has more value for them than the money others take out of the platform.
So yes they can and yes they should if needed IMHO.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

the ACS does quite a bit of good in the world AMERICA

Fixed that for you.

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

considerably less than most business CEO's

And why should a charity CEO earn a comparable salary with some mega corporation's CEO?

It's a popular argument with overpaid executive seat warmers everywhere. "But you must pay me a competitive salary to attract executive level non-talent like me!".

This is the problem with "non-profit corporations" pretending to be charities.

 

It's like a certain fat scam artist, let's call him "Morbid Cetacean", who didn't have a job, had NO money, but spent his life touring the world living in luxury penthouse suites in 5 star hotels, all paid for by a non-profit not-charity, the "Morbid Cetacean Miracle Show", who charged people over $100 a pop for tickets to watch the "great man" perform "miracles".

This organisation claimed to be non-profit, and spent all it's money on "good works", such as hiring stages from "Morbid Cetacean Stage rental, PA gear from "Morbid Cetacean Sound systems",  transportation from "Morbid Cetacean Road Haulage", etc,., etc., etc., all of whom rented offices from another Morbid Cetacean company, until all the cash had gone round and round so many times through so many non-profits, overcharging each other, that there was no money left for any actual "good works" other than making sure Morbid Cetacean got to spend his life eating gourmet meals in 5 star hotel penthouse suites.

 

And all the executive managers and CEOs of the Morbid Cetacean companies all had "competitive salaries".

 

 

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You'd have to show me you see the positive aspects too.  Nothing is ever all black & white.

I can see it benefits SOME Americans.

Some of them might actually deserve it.

 

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Cain Maven said:

Shop & Hop is free for creators (assuming you are selected to participate.) This gives the event a competitive advantage, since resident-run events typically charge a fee to cover cost and/or turn a profit. Linden Lab can also reach a large number of customers easily and cheaply.

Free in the sense that one has to come up with a new gift, one has to build a shop interior and one has to sell at at least a 20% discount. You can call that free of course, but you, as a builder and merchant, should know better than that. 

 

Edited February 5 by Sid Nagy

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

26 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

considerably less than most business CEO's

And why should a charity CEO earn a comparable salary with some mega corporation's CEO?

It's a popular argument with overpaid executive seat warmers everywhere. "But you must pay me a competitive salary to attract executive level non-talent like me!".

This is the problem with "non-profit corporations" pretending to be charities.

The CEO of the American Cancer Society earns less than other heads of big corporations. Personally I think that's the way it should be.  However I don't like this argument used to pay others in social service jobs less (like teacher & Social Workers, for example), so you do have to be careful when deciding some in society should earn less when their thrust is helping others.

I don't think because some at the top are high-earners that this negates the fact that the organization does good in the world.

For you, it appears them earning money at the top ruins everything.  I don't see a need to make it a black & white issue.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Free in the sense that one has to come up with a new gift, one has to build a shop interior and one has to sell at at least a 20% discount. You can call that free of course, but you as a builder and merchant should know better than that. 

Can't negate the exposure you'll receive though. I bet a few will discover you that never heard of you before.

Edited February 5 by Luna Bliss

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Another sort of minor impression, speaking as someone who has been an "activist" for various causes over my 15+ years here . . .

In the "old days" of SL, the platform attracted a great many people who were interested in its application as an educational and/or activist communication tool. I used to be able to run events that didn't have DJs or dances or shopping venues, and still expect a fair turnout.

From sometime around 2011, that began to  change. The weekly feminist discussion groups I used to run, once well attended, began to attract fewer people, and events built around things like lectures or "protests" similarly became increasingly sparsely attended.

Last night, I advertised, with more than a week's lead up, a discussion session about an RL cause in three different, reasonably largish groups, all of whom host people who could reasonably be expected to be very interested in the subject.

Not a single person showed up. Nada. Zip.

I can't say I was entirely surprised, but it was a useful reminder. The successful things that I have hosted in the last few years all had an additional "hook": art, and music and dance. I had very good turnouts for two art exhibitions on political causes that I held, but both were "events" in a way quite different from the things I used to run.

It's become very clear to me that the only way to run a successful charity and/or activist event now is to turn it into an "entertainment" of some kind -- a gallery exhibition, a shopping element, DJs or live performers with a dance floor.

This is important and relevant because it means that charity events now have to compete directly with non-charity events, like Shop N Hop. You can no longer assume that "interested people" will show up if there is not shopping and entertainment.

[Luna Bliss]

9 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

29 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You'd have to show me you see the positive aspects too.  Nothing is ever all black & white.

I can see it benefits SOME Americans.

Some of them might actually deserve it.

Their efforts actually help those all over the world...even in the UK -- cancer is worldwide, and research here helps combat cancer elsewhere.

 My concern is that they're too beholden to Big Pharma. At the same time, neither myself nor my daughter would be alive today had it not been for the efforts of new drugs that helped us both (in the case of my daughter it's prolonged her life, and in my case I had two medical conditions that didn't result in my death due to drugs they developed).

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't think because some at the top are high-earners that this negates the fact that the organization does good in the world.

Again with the assumption that the ACS does "good for the WORLD", it doesn't, it does good for Americans, some of whom have cancer, and some of whom are "senior management".

But it does SOD all for anyone in other countries, so why the hell should people in other countries pay to support an inefficient organisation that has no intention of doing any good for non-Americans?

More importantly where do people like you get off, "shaming" us because we support charities HERE where WE live rather then THERE where YOU live.

 

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

For you, it appears them earning money at the top ruins everything.

If a "research charity" spends more on senior management salaries and pensions than it spends on research, something is seriously wrong.

 

[Sid Nagy]

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Can't negate the exposure you'll receive though. I bet a few will discover you that never heard of you before.

I hope so, but participation is not free.
It took me all in all at least 20 hours in preparation time. I will not make anything near minimum wages with Shop & Hop (nor with the other merchant activities in SL for that matter )
For me it is only doable because I consider it a hobby (like the majority of merchants). My fun I get out of SL.

Edited February 5 by Sid Nagy

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Again with the assumption that the ACS does "good for the WORLD", it doesn't, it does good for Americans, some of whom have cancer, and some of whom are "senior management".

But it does SOD all for anyone in other countries, so why the hell should people in other countries pay to support an inefficient organisation that has no intention of doing any good for non-Americans?

More importantly where do people like you get off, "shaming" us because we support charities HERE where WE live rather then THERE where YOU live.

First, I have never shamed you for supporting charities in your neck of the woods, and in fact have gone out of way twice to state that I understand feeling better about giving to a cause in your community that you can see.

There's nothing wrong with supporting worldwide efforts however, and as Garnet pointed out earlier, you can even do both!

The research the ACS does creates new treatments and drugs that the rest of the world  also benefits from.  There are global initiatives in cancer research and treatment.  Do some googling about cancer global initiatives to view what the ACS participates in.

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

For you, it appears them earning money at the top ruins everything.

If a "research charity" spends more on senior management salaries and pensions than it spends on research, something is seriously wrong.

Yes it would be something seriously wrong.  You can investigate and see if something is seriously wrong:

https://www.cancer.org/about-us/financial-governance-information/combined-financial-statements.html

[Katherine Heartsong]

Completely silly question ... never been to the Shop&Hop events before and wow, nice. How often do they happen?

[Cain Maven]

29 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Free in the sense that one has to come up with a new gift, one has to build a shop interior and one has to sell at at least a 20% discount. You can call that free of course, but you, as a builder and merchant, should know better than that. 

 

Free in the sense that there is no monetary fee to enter. As a builder and merchant, you knew that.

[Luna Bliss]

20 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

26 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Can't negate the exposure you'll receive though. I bet a few will discover you that never heard of you before.

I hope so, but participation is not free.
It took me all in all at least 20 hours in preparation time. I will not make anything near minimum wages with Shop & Hop (nor with the other merchant activities in SL for that matter )
For me it is only doable because I consider it a hobby (like the majority of merchants). My fun I get out of SL.

One year when I participated in the Home & Garden (Home Living or whatever it's called now), a woman discovered me and bought all kind of stuff.  Other than that it's hard to know if the exposure really helped.

For me, it's just too much work, but then I don't care much about earning money anymore. It became more like a rat-race to do so and less about creativity, and I really let myself get burned by that.

[PheebyKatz]

49 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I hope so, but participation is not free.
It took me all in all at least 20 hours in preparation time. I will not make anything near minimum wages with Shop & Hop (nor with the other merchant activities in SL for that matter )
For me it is only doable because I consider it a hobby (like the majority of merchants). My fun I get out of SL.

Our time is of more worth than a L$, too. People contribute hugely to what they do in SL, even when it isn't money. As far as hobbies go, I can't think of a better one. I am literally never bored, because there's always something to keep me busy.

The only hassle is prioritizing my time so I get to spend some of it on myself, too. I have to try all those demo shoes on sometime~!

So yeah, not technically free, but still. At least it didn't cost L$ on top of that.

And for what it's worth, when a person has the right work and play ethic for it, even these things are fun. Even having a deadline can be fun. As long as my home sim's owner doesn't mind me having to keep asking for my deadlines to be extended.

I'm a broke mofo, but I still go to events. Seeing who is there is part of the draw for me. Seeing who's participating, as well as who's attending. And while you may not be making easy money hand over fist, when I see people I recognize participating in these things, it just adds to their legendary status with me. It may not be worth money, but it ought to count for something.

Know that you are cool in my book, Sid. You're one of the people on my Legends List. Just saying.

I don't even have a Belli home, and I still look at your MP. So hah.

Edited February 5 by PheebyKatz