What do you think "LL will 'never' Change or Fix"?

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, PheebyKatz said:

Where did this happen, so I can avoid going there? I'm used to like, fighting people for three hours, throwing flaming toilets at them until the sim owner shows up, and then being given a free home and a storefront.

I'm pretty sure they meant it was a ban due to postings on the Forums ("where").

[bigmoe Whitfield]

12 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It would be okay for Opensim people to come to SL to shop but not let SL people into Opensim. 

That is something hopefully SL will never fix.

 

No, it would not be okay for opensim people to come and shop in SL and then return to opensim,  reason being god mode in opensim, all I'm going to say.

[Arielle Popstar]

56 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

No, it would not be okay for opensim people to come and shop in SL and then return to opensim,  reason being god mode in opensim, all I'm going to say.

Quite a few of the larger commercial grids are part of a "Trusted Grid" network that do not give residents access to god mode, remove any content that is even suspected of being illegitimate, dmca or not, block access to both logins and hyperjumps using cb viewers and additionally do not allow travel to those independent grids that are not part of the trusted grid network. Those restrictions make it safer for content and creators than SL.

That leads to the on-topic question of whether SL will ever change or fix the allowing access with cb viewers.

[Love Zhaoying]

LL will never add direct support for streaming audio, and will always depend on users getting some janky 3rd party software.

[KanryDrago]

15 hours ago, PheebyKatz said:

Where did this happen, so I can avoid going there? I'm used to like, fighting people for three hours, throwing flaming toilets at them until the sim owner shows up, and then being given a free home and a storefront.

it was here on the forums guy was being a mysoginist dick

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

it was here on the forums guy was being a mysoginist dick

Almost a daily occurrence!

"LL will never fix the problem with misogynistic dicks."

 

[sirhc DeSantis]

38 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

LL will never add direct support for streaming audio, and will always depend on users getting some janky 3rd party software.

Streaming audio? I might be biased (and I am) but it works fine. Maybe not being logged in to 17 other things on your ahem 'janky' (good word) 'puter at the same time may help

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

Streaming audio? I might be biased (and I am) but it works fine. Maybe not being logged in to 17 other things on your ahem 'janky' (good word) 'puter at the same time may help

I meant for the broadcaster. So they don't have to use StreamCast or similar software. Sorry if you misunderstood! I was not clear.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[bigmoe Whitfield]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Quite a few of the larger commercial grids are part of a "Trusted Grid" network that do not give residents access to god mode, remove any content that is even suspected of being illegitimate, dmca or not, block access to both logins and hyperjumps using cb viewers and additionally do not allow travel to those independent grids that are not part of the trusted grid network. Those restrictions make it safer for content and creators than SL.

That leads to the on-topic question of whether SL will ever change or fix the allowing access with cb viewers.

say the grid in the "trusted network" allows people to host their own regions connecting them in onto the "trusted network" then there is the failure point.

[Arielle Popstar]

12 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

say the grid in the "trusted network" allows people to host their own regions connecting them in onto the "trusted network" then there is the failure point.

Those grids involved with that network do not offer for others to host their own regions so not a failure point. Very few do actually with the exception of course being OSgrid. I believe there is a developer working on the server code to remove god mode altogether so that in future they could offer region code for people to self host with that does not have the god mode capability.

On Topic- LL will never allow regular residents to self host their own sims.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

LL will never allow regular residents to self host their own sims.

The only option 100%  otherwise, myself and others are 100% out of SL.

[Arielle Popstar]

7 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

The only option 100%  otherwise, myself and others are 100% out of SL.

Why? Along with a couple of other necessary restrictions regarding backups of the sim content, the sim hoster would be just as powerless to affect any changes to content as anyone else. The advantages are that there is less load on the SL servers for anything done on the sim as well as much less latency for the one hosting. For those residents in another part of the world, they would have access to a region that is much closer to them as an example.

On topic- Doubtful that LL will actually follow through and have the cloud servers located in other parts of the world as they were saying they would once the uplift was completed.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

On topic- Doubtful that LL will actually follow through and have the cloud servers located in other parts of the world as they were saying they would once the uplift was completed.

That's because it's a damn stupid idea.

Those "darn it all to heck, you appear to have been logged out" TP failure messages, result from unacceptable delays in communications between servers IN THE SAME BUILDING, on Oregon.

Placing those servers around the world, hundreds of milliseconds apart, only adds to the failure.

 

From the UK to Cloudcrap Oregon, round trip, 200 ms, from Cloudcrap Oregon to Cloudcrap Montreal, add 80 ms, from Cloudcrap Montreal to Cloudcrap Melbourne, add 400 ms, from Cloudcrap Melbourne to Cloudcrap Delhi, add 300 ms, from Cloudcrap Delhi to Cloudcrap Berlin add 400 ms, how long does iit take to walk across a region crossing... Too Damn Long.

 

The suggestion that they MIIGHT look at "distributed servers" was basically one of those "feelgood do nothiing " statements made to keep technically clueless people quiet.

 

NEVER going to happen, for very good reasons.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Chic Aeon]

Haven't read this thread but my "vote" would be  losing things in the database. This has been going on since before I was born (so 16 years) for the biggest (noticeable) occurrence for me was in June where I not only lost items in inventory but items rezzed (ones I mad so not a DMCA issue) but also lost one of my blogger groups and had to get the owner to add me back in.   

 

It has become part of "that's how it is" for me but I suspect I have lost thousands of US dollars of goods over my lifetime and I see no reason for this. I know that I am not alone.   

Edited October 22, 2023 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[Drayke Newall]

2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

That's because it's a damn stupid idea.

Those "darn it all to heck, you appear to have been logged out" TP failure messages, result from unacceptable delays in communications between servers IN THE SAME BUILDING, on Oregon.

Placing those servers around the world, hundreds of milliseconds apart, only adds to the failure.

 

From the UK to Cloudcrap Oregon, round trip, 200 ms, from Cloudcrap Oregon to Cloudcrap Montreal, add 80 ms, from Cloudcrap Montreal to Cloudcrap Melbourne, add 400 ms, from Cloudcrap Melbourne to Cloudcrap Delhi, add 300 ms, from Cloudcrap Delhi to Cloudcrap Berlin add 400 ms, how long does iit take to walk across a region crossing... Too Damn Long.

 

The suggestion that they MIIGHT look at "distributed servers" was basically one of those "feelgood do nothiing " statements made to keep technically clueless people quiet.

 

NEVER going to happen, for very good reasons.

Erm... that is not what LL were proposing to do. It has nothing to do with where the sim hosting servers are located as they were always intended to be located in the USA. LL were talking about the assets. SL assets have been on AWS for longer than regions, however, they are still located in the USA. This means that when a person logs in or tps into a region, the viewer has to still grab the assets from the servers in the USA.

This means that there is greater chance of congestion, higher latency and increased packet loss all affecting how quickly mesh, textures, inventory, etc are downloaded and displayed.

By having the asset servers located in different (multiple) region zones (europe, asia, pacific, england, etc) it would allow for better loading speed of the assets and allow for less congestion as people located in pacific region would get their assets from say Sydney, people in asia from japan etc. This is how all streaming services are run when downloading is required assets are required due to the same issues.

This is what Oz intended when he and LL promised doing as such and as Oz also mentioned, would improve and speed up the SL experience.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Drayke Newall

[bigmoe Whitfield]

5 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

On topic- Doubtful that LL will actually follow through and have the cloud servers located in other parts of the world as they were saying they would once the uplift was completed.

depending on deployment costs with aws, it could be a factor too that is limiting deployment,  I think only patch would be able to explain it better at this point.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

SL assets have been on AWS for longer than regions, however, they are still located in the USA. This means that when a person logs in or tps into a region, the viewer has to still grab the assets from the servers in the USA.

The main asset database is in the USA, but content is delivered by the CDN "Content Delivery Network", which is a series of REGIONAL web caches around the world.

So when you tp into aome place, and your viewer needs to stream the data for "the really unpopular body almost nobody wears" so it can render that, it streams it from a CDN cache located near YOU, not one in Oregon, UNLESS, nobody near you has requested that recently enough for it to be in the very large cache, when it grabs it from the main data base.

In fact, content was on the CDN long BEFORE Project Downlift, the move to Cloudcrap Oregon.

4 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

This is how all streaming services are run when downloading is required assets are required due to the same issues.

It's how SL does it, and has done it for quite a few years now. Also, if memory serves, the CDN is run by Akami, not AWS.

Don't take my word for it, why not ask @Beq Janus to explain it to you, or even @animats.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

In fact, content was on the CDN long BEFORE Project Downlift, the move to Cloudcrap Oregon.

It's how SL does it, and has done it for quite a few years now. Also, if memory serves, the CDN is run by Akami, not AWS.

Don't take my word for it, why not ask @Beq Janus to explain it to you, or even @animats.

I definitely recall a Tpv meeting where Oz talked about things they would be able to do once the uplift was complete. I don't recall the exact details but it was something along those lines.

When I get inworld I'll look through my notes to see if I kept a copy of the meeting log. Otherwise hopefully Beq remembers it as I know she was there at that meeting.

[Jaylinbridges]

12 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I meant for the broadcaster. So they don't have to use StreamCast or similar software. Sorry if you misunderstood! I was not clear.

Streamcast is a service that allows text overlays onto media, using the common streaming services such as Shoutcast, Icecast, Radionomy, Radiojar, etc.  I have no idea why you think LL should form their own streaming service for "broadcasting". Why would I want to send my Shoutcast stream directly to LL, instead of my private music streaming provider?  I can already broadcast audio to 1000 listeners at 128 kbps mp3 for only 600 $L per month.

If LL added the same type of service integrated in their viewer, they would make it a profit center service, and charge at least 6000 $L/mo, and probably require Premium membership.  If this was mandatory, they would kill all the DJ's and live streaming music in SL.  And when the viewer crashed, your music stream would also crash.  Worst idea i have ever heard in this thread.

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Streamcast is a service that allows text overlays onto media, using the common streaming services such as Shoutcast, Icecast, Radionomy, Radiojar, etc.  I have no idea why you think LL should form their own streaming service for "broadcasting". Why would I want to send my Shoutcast stream directly to LL, instead of my private music streaming provider?  I can already broadcast audio to 1000 listeners at 128 kbps mp3 for only 600 $L per month.

 

Yeah, I meant "ShoutCast". 

I was responding to someone who pretty obviously thought I meant "the listener" in the Second Life viewer.

My original point was:  LL will never integrate a "broadcast feature" into the viewer.

10 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

If LL added the same type of service integrated in their viewer, they would make it a profit center service, and charge at least 6000 $L/mo, and probably require Premium membership.  If this was mandatory, they would kill all the DJ's and live streaming music in SL.  And when the viewer crashed, your music stream would also crash.  

My suggestion does not mean that users could not still "bring their own" Streaming service.  I'm not sure why you think LL providing a "streaming broadcast service" would preclude use of other services. (ETA: Since "streaming" for a listener in Second Life really must means there's a streaming URL associated with the land..)  Doesn't make any sense to me that you assume so.

10 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Worst idea i have ever heard in this thread.

Sure, why not smile back?

🙂 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[AmeliaJ08]

10 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

The only option 100%  otherwise, myself and others are 100% out of SL.

Just curious why?

[AmeliaJ08]

13 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Streamcast is a service that allows text overlays onto media, using the common streaming services such as Shoutcast, Icecast, Radionomy, Radiojar, etc.  I have no idea why you think LL should form their own streaming service for "broadcasting". Why would I want to send my Shoutcast stream directly to LL, instead of my private music streaming provider?  I can already broadcast audio to 1000 listeners at 128 kbps mp3 for only 600 $L per month.

If LL added the same type of service integrated in their viewer, they would make it a profit center service, and charge at least 6000 $L/mo, and probably require Premium membership.  If this was mandatory, they would kill all the DJ's and live streaming music in SL.  And when the viewer crashed, your music stream would also crash.  Worst idea i have ever heard in this thread.

I'm a bit confused at the hostility to shoutcast as well... that has been around for a long, long time now and works beautifully.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

49 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I'm a bit confused at the hostility to shoutcast as well... that has been around for a long, long time now and works beautifully.

 

No hostility on my part - just that it's a bunch of "extra" stuff that people have to learn and install to do streaming in Second Life. (ETA: By "install", I meant - in part - that you had to go install different parts of ShoutCast on your own PC, as the broadcaster, at one point depending on how you wanted to use it.  At the time I was looking, some of those parts were actually no longer supported! Not ideal.)

I could go into more detail about "other issues" with it, but I won't due to the negative response earlier. 😉

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

Please don't get too stuck on a topic, you can always go start your own thread! I just don't want to get derailed.

 

[Jaylinbridges]

28 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

just that it's a bunch of "extra" stuff that people have to learn and install to do streaming in Second Life.

If a resident wants to stream their own material into second life, they should be technically aware that using the SL Viewer for streaming to others is not technically trivial, and would be difficult to add to the viewer.  The more private services can be removed from dependence on LL and run offline, the better, IMO.    The SL viewer has enough trouble with their voice application, which is still a plugin by a 3rd party.  It won't happen because no one would use it after they crashed a few times.

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Jaylinbridges