Why doesn't SL water have waves and swells?

[RangiUtu]

Yes I know all about surfer prim waves, but that's not what I'm after. 

Is it possible for SL water - all of it - to have swells,waves,and chop (not surfer waves) for realism in sailing? I know another platform that does so I would think it possible. 

If it's not possible for whatever reason I suppose this will be a short thread  LOL.   

[Perrie Juran]

Possible is one thing. Practical would be a whole different matter.

I am thinking it would be graphically very intensive.

You have to remember that unlike games you preload on your computer, everything in SL is happening in real time.

[Luna Bliss]

 

[Rolig Loon]

Water in SL is not a three-dimensional material. It is a dynamic two-dimensional optical effect.  Making it a 3D effect, as Perrie suggests, would be very intensive graphically, especially if LL added the randomness that would be needed to make realistic waves, interfering ripples, and interactions with the shoreline or objects like boats.  The environment you see on your screen in SL is  updated continuously, so rendering anything more complicated than the simplified 2D water we now have would be a massive computing challenge for your graphics card.

[Love Zhaoying]

You can buy beautiful waves that can be used for surfing..but you have to Rez them on your own land. (Not a solution for sailing.)

[Persephone Emerald]

This morning I sat outside by my friend's pool and noticed the water reminded me of a commonly used animated water texture in SL. I thought it was the slight breeze making ripples and shadows of them on the bottom and sides of the pool that created this effect. I thought, "Oh, swimming pool water must be what inspired the creation of that texture. 

There are also nice textures for stream water. There might be nice textures for ocean water that isn't surf too, but I'm used to Linden water, so it seems fine to me. 

What bothers me, though, is thinking that it can't be salt water, because of the way it connects to apparent rivers and streams. It also bothers me that there are so few fish in it, almost as if it isn't conducive to supporting life. 😞

Maybe that's a good metaphor for SL?

[Rowan Amore]

Wonky wind (surface waves) and no gravitation pull (tidal waves)?

Technically, I have no clue.

[Rolig Loon]

11 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

What bothers me, though, is thinking that it can't be salt water, because of the way it connects to apparent rivers and streams.

I don't understand. How can you tell whether water is salty from the way it flows into other water?

[Rowan Amore]

14 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I don't understand. How can you tell whether water is salty from the way it flows into other water?

You taste it!  

[Rolig Loon]

12 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You taste it! 

But that's cheating. 😛   She said that something about the way they connect doesn't look right.  (At least I think that's what she meant.)

[CornFieldFeels]

I had blind friend come on sl he loves to hear the waves he got some problem that tells him what is around him but he says he can feel like smelling images in his mind.

[Akane Nacht]

3 hours ago, RangiUtu said:

Is it possible for SL water - all of it - to have swells,waves,and chop (not surfer waves) for realism in sailing? I know another platform that does so I would think it possible. 

What platform is that? I've seen somewhat responsive water in games (like you can run through it and make ripples) but not any that had any physical resistance to suspend and rock a boat for example. 

1 hour ago, Rolig Loon said:

I don't understand. How can you tell whether water is salty from the way it flows into other water?

I read that as silty - which is something that would make it look more realistic flowing into a lake/sea. I wonder if anyone has made animated river muck? 🤔

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

I don't understand. How can you tell whether water is salty from the way it flows into other water?

I'm thinking primarily of Bellisseria, but this is true for mainland too. Almost all of the Linden water is at the same height, with exceptions for the Log Home regions and the lake at the middle of Heterocera. This means that most of the rivers (or more likely channels) can't flow downstream into the ocean. The plants by these rivers and streams look like those by a freshwater body of water, but what would prevent salt water from the ocean flowing into them? The underwater ocean plants could be fresh or salt water plants, I guess, so if all the water is the is the same, I assume it must be fresh water. Or maybe it's all slightly brackish, except where it's obviously flowing downward?

Edited July 10, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Rolig Loon]

50 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I guess, so if all the water is the is the same, I assume it must be fresh water.

That's a decent observation.  Of course, the world ocean on SL could be like the Mediterranean Sea, which is not salty.  So it's plausible for everything to be fresh water.

[Persephone Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's a decent observation.  Of course, the world ocean on SL could be like the Mediterranean Sea, which is not salty.  So it's plausible for everything to be fresh water.

According to this site, the Mediterranean Sea is very salty. It experiences more evaporation than it does precipitation or water flowing in from rivers and streams.

https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/686-ocean-salinity#:~:text=The Mediterranean Sea in Europe,extra freshwater added from rivers.

Since most of SL also experiences very little precipitation, maybe the sea would actually be salty? On the otherhand, there's very little sea life and almost no decaying organic matter, so who knows?

[Istelathis]

Perhaps with the new engine, waves could be enabled.

 

This goes way beyond the scope of my knowledge though.  The mobile viewer will be built using Unity, so perhaps at some point in the future we will see the option available to us, although I would hazard a guess that this would be done on the client side, and we would not all be sharing the same data so surfing the waves or having physics for boats would probably not be a thing.

 

Now for the fun of it, check out this video I found for the Unreal engine, this looks so amazing 😍

 

[Marigold Devin]

6 hours ago, CornFieldFeels said:

I had blind friend come on sl he loves to hear the waves he got some problem that tells him what is around him but he says he can feel like smelling images in his mind.

Second Life always smells like plywood and grass in my mind when I am inland.

5 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

According to this site, the Mediterranean Sea is very salty. It experiences more evaporation than it does precipitation or water flowing in from rivers and streams.

https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/686-ocean-salinity#:~:text=The Mediterranean Sea in Europe,extra freshwater added from rivers.

Since most of SL also experiences very little precipitation, maybe the sea would actually be salty? On the otherhand, there's very little sea life and almost no decaying organic matter, so who knows?

The Blake Sea regions have shoals of fish and corals in and as my eyes have never stung when I've been underwater, I'm guessing it's freshwater there. 

[Sid Nagy]

8 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

You taste it!  

You smell it too.
About 10 km before one reaches a beach, one can smell the salt in the air.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Sid Nagy]

10 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's a decent observation.  Of course, the world ocean on SL could be like the Mediterranean Sea, which is not salty.  So it's plausible for everything to be fresh water.

 Sorry, but you used a wrong example, the Mediterranean Sea is even more salty than the average ocean.
 

From Britannica.com:

Quote

The salinity of the Mediterranean is uniformly high throughout the basin. Surface waters average about 38 parts per thousand except in the extreme western parts, and the salinity can approach 40 parts per thousand in the eastern Mediterranean during the summer. Deepwater salinity is 38.4 parts per thousand or slightly less.

Added: Oops, I just saw that Persephone was a lot quicker explaining about it, then I.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[shireena1]

7 hours ago, Istelathis said:

Perhaps with the new engine, waves could be enabled.

 

This goes way beyond the scope of my knowledge though.  The mobile viewer will be built using Unity, so perhaps at some point in the future we will see the option available to us, although I would hazard a guess that this would be done on the client side, and we would not all be sharing the same data so surfing the waves or having physics for boats would probably not be a thing.

 

Now for the fun of it, check out this video I found for the Unreal engine, this looks so amazing 😍

 

Wow! I can hardly wait to make another SL video, but this time similar to "you are alive" by fragma.

[AmeliaJ08]

Simulator limitations, really just one aspect of the server that could be a whole lot more up to date but... isn't.

 

[Henry Blackwood]

13 hours ago, RangiUtu said:

Yes I know all about surfer prim waves, but that's not what I'm after. 

Is it possible for SL water - all of it - to have swells,waves,and chop (not surfer waves) for realism in sailing? I know another platform that does so I would think it possible. 

If it's not possible for whatever reason I suppose this will be a short thread  LOL.   

Most boat makers build in the effects of waves and chop into the ride of the boat itself, and adding water spray too really does give the impression of the things you are after for realism in sailing.

[Rolig Loon]

9 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

According to this site, the Mediterranean Sea is very salty.

 

3 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Sorry, but you used a wrong example, the Mediterranean Sea is even more salty than the average ocean.

Ooops.  This is what happens when I type after bedtime. My mind was on other things. Thanks for the correction.  🙄

[Sid Nagy]

10 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

 

Ooops.  This is what happens when I type after bedtime. My mind was on other things. Thanks for the correction.  🙄

Yup, after bedtime and before the first morning coffee are dangerous times of the day to post for me too. LL should close the forums during those hours. 🤭

[Love Zhaoying]

It helps if you know which way the rivers are flowing.

Rivers flowing INTO a larger body of water are usually freshwater.  For example, rivers originating from springs ("fresh vs. salty" due to limestone filtration etc.), streams, runoff from melted ice and snow..

Since rivers are not as likely to flow FROM larger bodies of water, rivers are not as likely to be salty.

I hope that makes sense, even if I pulled it out of my tail-hole.

Rivers => Runs downhill / following gravity => from usually freshwater sources => into larger bodies of water => which are usually salty except larger freshwater rivers, and freshwater lakes

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Love Zhaoying