superpeeve Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.

[Arielle Popstar]

27 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Maybe this is a good thing, because slowing down the process of buying stuff gives us a chance to second think our purchases and thus not spend so much or accumulate inventory we don't really need.

Well maybe but I have also just bought full versions because I simply did not want to go though the riga maroo of the demo, jumping back home to try it on and then coming back to the store to purchase the full version. It is just too time consuming for something that is in effect less then a dollar. My time is worth more then that so I bought and then trashed because the picture was way better then the actual product.

[Love Zhaoying]

Peeve: "SL is dying!"

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

https://www.google.com/search? &q=imvu+pictures

Yeah the photography is not as good. What's your point? We're discussing the shopping experience here.

[Extrude Ragu]

SecondLife's problem in a nutshell:-

Resident 1: "Wouldn't it be nice if we had a feature that makes SecondLife easier to use?" *Happens to mention other platform*

Resident 2: *somehow assumes it will destroy the platform, makes a doompost, accuses resident 1 of trying to turn SecondLife into other platform. Tells Resident 1 to move to other platform*

...

Meanwhile Resident 3 in another thread: "Why is SecondLife less welcoming than other platforms?"

....

Meanwhile Resident 4 in yet another thread: "SecondLife seems to be dieing. How shall we prepare for its death?"

 

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

This isn't IMVU - Deal. With. It.

You want their system? Go. Over. There.

Get over yourself Daddy. We are allowed to peeve that SL does not bring in better resident oriented systems for those things we all use rather than PBR, EEP and other lighting crap.

[Extrude Ragu]

16 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

This isn't IMVU - Deal. With. It.

You want their system? Go. Over. There.

I'd quite like it if you went over there with that attitude >.>

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

We are allowed to peeve that SL does not bring in better resident oriented systems for those things we all use

Are we allowed to peeve that "better oriented" seems to always trans late into real English a "I don't know how to use the folder tree in my PC's operating system, if there isn't a big friendly idiot-button on the desktop, my brain overheats"?

It's like the people who complain that local chat and IM's use text, instead of forcing people to use voice, because "wurdz r hard!"

 

If finding the folder for the "brand X Model Y Little Black Dress" in an fairly standard folder tree is TOO HARD for somebody, maybe they should JUST go back to whatever platform they came from.

 

You are always keen to state that people should take responsibility for that happens to them, right?

SL too hard for them? They should take responsibility for that and go back to IMVSpew.

 

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

If one has only ever done SL shopping then yes, one wouldn't know any better.

If one wants to demo and ultimately purchase something it is around 20 clicks between picking up the demo, unboxing it, wearing it, removing it, trashing it, purchasing the full version, unboxing, organizing it, wearing it. That doesn't include searching the store, teleporting there and back home and then back again if one chooses to buy it. The MP is not much better. It is time consuming and a major hindrance to a good shopping experience and effects the volume of sales in a negative way,

Never mind whether it is too hard but whether such a convoluted process is necessary and one only has to go to IMVU to see a much more effective shopping process that only requires 2 clicks to demo and purchase and that the same could be instituted in SL if the Lindens actually cared about  residents like IMVU does. 

Hey, at least in SL one doesn't need to drive down there first, avoid traffic congestion, search for a parking space first, carry the bags around and drive all the way home again, like in RL.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

24 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

SecondLife's problem in a nutshell:-

Resident 1: "Wouldn't it be nice if we had a feature that makes SecondLife easier to use?" *Happens to mention other platform*

Resident 2: *somehow assumes it will destroy the platform, makes a doompost, accuses resident 1 of trying to turn SecondLife into other platform. Tells Resident 1 to move to other platform*

 

If it's a feature that would require Second Life to either be radically simplified to the point of limitation or to eliminate backward compatibility, it probably would destroy the platform.

[Extrude Ragu]

I really appreciate that people like Arielle are looking to other platforms to find SecondLife's weaknesses and talk about change. No matter how much some of SecondLife's older residents like to snarl and try to push them out of the discussion

The resistance to change i'm afraid is only going to get stronger the older SecondLife's residents get. They're only going to get older, crankier and less prepared to accept new realities. The platform will only get more brittle and unable to support itself unless there is new blood.

I think it's really important that those who really want SecondLife to be around in the long term start to push back against the crankiness and start saying actually yes we do want to improve and experiment and get out of managed decline. Eventually there will come a point where there is enough new blood that there is less resistance to change and more people on the platform with a modern understanding of technology and how people of today use it, rather than people of yesterday.

That's not to say I've got a vendetta against oldbies. After all, I am one myself. But I don't want SecondLife to die with the previous generation, consider me selfish if you must

 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said:

Hey, at least in SL one doesn't need to drive down there first, avoid traffic congestion, search for a parking space first, carry the bags around and drive all the way home again, like in RL.

Eh? You been to any full or almost full regions having to deal with the traffic lag in the hopes of picking up some special? In some cases I would have been faster off going to a R/L store to buy the same thing then getting it inworld.

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

If it's a feature that would require Second Life to either be radically simplified to the point of limitation or to eliminate backward compatibility, it probably would destroy the platform.

If it is that fragile that says a lot doesn't it?

[Theresa Tennyson]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

If it is that fragile that says a lot doesn't it?

Did you watch The Lego Movie? Was the Kragle a good thing?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

19 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

SecondLife's problem in a nutshell:-

Resident 1: "Wouldn't it be nice if we had a feature that makes SecondLife easier to use?" *Happens to mention other platform*

Resident 2: *somehow assumes it will destroy the platform, makes a doompost, accuses resident 1 of trying to turn SecondLife into other platform. Tells Resident 1 to move to other platform*

...

Meanwhile Resident 3 in another thread: "Why is SecondLife less welcoming than other platforms?"

....

Meanwhile Resident 4 in yet another thread: "SecondLife seems to be dieing. How shall we prepare for its death?"

 

Yeah, no.

What this is, is something different.

Claiming that something with LESS flexibility, and LESS options for cusstomisation is "better" because it's used on an INFERIOR platform is not "making things easier", it's "dumbing down". LL tried that once, it was an unmitigated disaster.

 

As for the welcoming crapola, why the hell should WE welcome somebody who want's to dumb down the system I use, because THEY have an IQ under 85, and expects US to provide them with free entertainment, because they think WE are "just clever AI driven NPC's" whose use is part of the platform. There is no "right to be welcomed" anywhere.

 

You're supporting somebody who thinks if some IQ 80 type arrives in SL, and IM's me with "HRU? Ur Hawt, ASL/ Voice/cam skype? Nude selfies by email" that I am "supposed to be nice to them" and agree to be their npc for today?

 

That isn't going to happen. Some people don't deserve to be "made welcome". It's not a "basic universal right".

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Yeah, no.

What this is, is something different.

Claiming that something with LESS flexibility, and LESS options for cusstomisation is "better" because it's used on an INFERIOR platform is not "making things easier", it's "dumbing down". LL tried that once, it was an unmitigated disaster.

 

As for the welcoming crapola, why the hell should WE welcome somebody who want's to dumb down the system I use, because THEY have an IQ under 85, and expects US to provide them with free entertainment, because they think WE are "just clever AI driven NPC's" whose use is part of the platform. There is no "right to be welcomed" anywhere.

 

You're supporting somebody who thinks if some IQ 80 type arrives in SL, and IM's me with "HRU? Ur Hawt, ASL/ Voice/cam skype? Nude selfies by email" that I am "supposed to be nice to them" and agree to be their npc for today?

 

That isn't going to happen. Some people don't deserve to be "made welcome". It's not a "basic universal right".

If it wasn't for dumb ones like myself you wouldn't have anyone to complain about or feel better about that at least you are smarter! You should be thankful.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

6 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I think it's really important that those who really want SecondLife to be around in the long term start to push back against the crankiness and start saying actually yes we do want to improve and experiment

Such as ideas to enable griefers and squatters to prim-litter with total immunity from parcel auto return on most of the grid? Yeah, that's the kind if poorly planned "experimental improvement" SL genuinely DOES NOT NEED.

 

[Extrude Ragu]

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Claiming that something with LESS flexibility, and LESS options for cusstomisation is "better" because it's used on an INFERIOR platform is not "making things easier", it's "dumbing down". LL tried that once, it was an unmitigated disaster.

You're not searching for a solution, you're searching for a problem. You could easily have proposed to Arielle that the feature also retains backwards compatibility, or expressed that the old marketplace is kept for people who need more flexibility. Instead chose to solely turn the matter negative and try to insult the intelligence of anyone who is so daring as to think differently to you.

 

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

You're supporting somebody who thinks if some IQ 80 type arrives in SL, and IM's me with "HRU? Ur Hawt, ASL/ Voice/cam skype? Nude selfies by email" that I am "supposed to be nice to them" and agree to be their npc for today?

Trust me, I don't think I'd like any new residents to be made to experience you. I'm quite happy for you to stay in your parcel away from the rest of SL as you so enjoy telling us you like to do.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

noobies still getting to grips with inventory etc it's so needlessly convoluted and could be so, so much slicker.

And it's been like that since I started and I'm still here.  Could it be simpler?  Oh, most definitely.  However, when I've helped a few newer people recently, those that actually pay attention and ask pertinent questions, most have picked it up fairly quickly.   

I've said before when I came to SL I had absolutely NO gaming experience.  Maybe that was a good thing.  I had no expectations at all.  I didn't think it was going to be easy or hard.  I had no frame of reference.   I worked my way through problems and felt awesome when I figured something out.   

I think the issue IS that people come here from other games and expect it to be like other games.  It's not...at all.  Forget everything you've come to expect from a game.   

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Such as ideas to enable griefers and squatters to prim-litter with total immunity from parcel auto return on most of the grid? Yeah, that's the kind if poorly planned "experimental improvement" SL genuinely DOES NOT NEED.

 

Everyone is either overentitled or a griefer in SL. Why are you here? Maybe you might want to look at Opensim where you can run your own grid, block any visitors and have complete control. It is what you seem to want here.

[Garnet Psaltery]

There's one advantage to not seeing very well; you can excuse yourself from arguments by saying they're too hard to read.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

17 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I really appreciate that people like Arielle are looking to other platforms to find SecondLife's weaknesses and talk about change. No matter how much some of SecondLife's older residents like to snarl and try to push them out of the discussion

The resistance to change i'm afraid is only going to get stronger the older SecondLife's residents get. They're only going to get older, crankier and less prepared to accept new realities. The platform will only get more brittle and unable to support itself unless there is new blood.

I think it's really important that those who really want SecondLife to be around in the long term start to push back against the crankiness and start saying actually yes we do want to improve and experiment and get out of managed decline. Eventually there will come a point where there is enough new blood that there is less resistance to change and more people on the platform with a modern understanding of technology and how people of today use it, rather than people of yesterday.

That's not to say I've got a vendetta against oldbies. After all, I am one myself. But I don't want SecondLife to die with the previous generation, consider me selfish if you must

 

While not disagreeing overall with your sentiment here, part of the problem resides in the fact that LL often doesn't implement change very well. Documentation remains out of date, things in the update are broken and remain unfixed because LL has already turned to the next shiny new thing -- and overall, there is very little concerted effort to educate the broader user base on the ramifications of these changes, or how to adjust to them.

I'm talking in part, of course, in the context of PBR, but even the inventory preview system, which is mostly pretty good, remains unknown to the vast majority of residents.

As for PBR -- things are reasonably quiet right now on that front because, what, about 15% of residents are probably using a PBR viewer. But wait until FS finally releases its new PBR viewer.

Edited February 1 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

15 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

If it's a feature that would require Second Life to either be radically simplified to the point of limitation or to eliminate backward compatibility, it probably would destroy the platform.

If it is that fragile that says a lot doesn't it?

No. "Eliminating backwards compatibility" does not imply "fragility".

"Destroying the platform" because we lose "backwards compatibility" is just a realistic point of view, the platform would be "destroyed" if loss of backwards compatibility caused people to leave in "droves".

It's not "fragile" if you rip the engine out of the car.  Our content / backwards compatibility with that content is the "engine" that makes the "Second Life" car "go".  Without content, there's no "car".

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

part of the problem resides in the fact that LL often doesn't implement change very well. Documentation remain out of date, things in the update are broken and remain unfixed because LL has already turned to the next shiny new thing -- and overall, there is very little concerted effort to educate the broader user base on the ramifications of these changes, or how to adjust to them.

I'm talking in part, of course, in the context of PBR, but even the inventory preview system, which is mostly pretty good, remains unknown to the vast majority of residents.

Peeve: Not that it's "new"! 🙂

But there's always hope it doesn't get any worse. It will probably continue to happen, just as it has happened all along.

Some people got used to it, as part of the "price of change" with Linden Lab's development/testing/rollout process.

Some people did not get used to it.

Some people are frightened that the "next big change" could break Second Life, so in their point of view we are "teetering on the edge" all the time.

I am glad that I am not those "some people".

 

[Arielle Popstar]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And it's been like that since I started and I'm still here.  Could it be simpler?  Oh, most definitely.  However, when I've helped a few newer people recently, those that actually pay attention and ask pertinent questions, most have picked it up fairly quickly.   

I've said before when I came to SL I had absolutely NO gaming experience.  Maybe that was a good thing.  I had no expectations at all.  I didn't think it was going to be easy or hard.  I had no frame of reference.   I worked my way through problems and felt awesome when I figured something out.   

I think the issue IS that people come here from other games and expect it to be like other games.  It's not...at all.  Forget everything you've come to expect from a game.   

Was a time a few years ago that I too promoted many workarounds for the shortcomings of both SL and Opensim until one day a developer started pointing out that though the workarounds were a great thing for the immediate issue, over the long term one should be pushing for better systems from the developer if we are ever to see real progress of the platform and not drown in a sea of workarounds which just make the learning curve of the platform increasingly steep. If developers are not pushed a bit, they tend to leave things half finished because their own use case does not require it to be any better even if it causes resident untold hours of work.

[Gabriele Graves]

Keeping/making things simpler may work well for systems that start out as far less complex than SL and there is a case to be made that SL should have started out much simpler as well.

However, things may not have turned out as well as they did if SL had started out less complex and retained more simplicity going forward.

Therein lies the rub, it's very likely that SL continues to enjoy the popularity it has, not in spite of it's complexity but because of it.  It is often said that there is nothing else like SL and that nobody can quantify why people have enjoyed it so much compared to technically "better" systems.

It's entirely possible that this complexity is in fact, a richness and flexibility that other platforms simply do not have and will never have because the seeds of that need to be present from day one.  The flip-side of the coin is that flexibility also brings complexity with it.

 

PEEVE: Why do you only see the mistakes in your post once you hit "Post"?

Edited February 1 by Gabriele Graves