If Not Lara,Then..?

[Ceka Cianci]

8 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

They're launching the brand at Fameshed and Kinky, so I'm interested to see what clothes will be launched at those events. I'm interested, cautiously, but the only items I've seen made by brands I recognize at all are lingerie and bikinis. The body does look so good, though. 

Ya, I believe it's Oct 1st when it drops..

I messed up thinking it was gonna be Thursday for some reason and was all excited  the day before.. I was ready to go, looking forward to trying it out, then around 11pm that night I realized.. Wait, it's only September!!  \o/ I'm off by a month!!

i just went to bed after that all bummed out.. hehehe

 

[Persephone Emerald]

Maybe the new body coming out from Belliza?

 

[PermaRuthed]

With all these bodies gunning for the big top, what is that old Highlander saying?

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, PermaRuthed said:

With all these bodies gunning for the big top, what is that old Highlander saying?

That should be easier, since heads detach from bodies.

[Marianne Little]

On 9/2/2022 at 5:17 PM, Jenna Huntsman said:

In terms of new bodies, Prima would be one to watch.

They have a curvy variant, but that's not the interesting one - the interesting one is the Petite variant, which would seem to be a Maitreya competitor.

See here (NSFW):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37690108@N05/52328430267/in/dateposted/

Unfortunately it's intended to be no-mod, so I'd be unlikely to buy it. Sigh.

That image is really heavy photoshopped.

[Jenna Huntsman]

42 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

That image is really heavy photoshopped.

I'm aware - unfortunately pretty much all of the public images of the body either don't show that much, or as you say, are photoshopped.

I managed to obtain a prerelease copy of the body (Not sure if I'm allowed to take photos) - I'd say it's a nice body, but not without a couple faults:

• The stomach area is a bit of a pain point, as it's been designed with thin avatars in mind, and even though the rigging allows it to be made larger without deforming too badly it looks unnatural because of this.
• The nipples are somewhat cartoonishly oversided (If I'd have to guess, the nipples are ~3 cm long by default).
• Hands are modelled in such a way that they are designed too small for the size of the body. (Could be just how I tend to measure my hand shape, as I tend to say it's correct when my index finger is aligned with one side of the arm, and my ring finger with the other side).

And just some other details:

• The body also includes a couple different options for labia type, so if you don't want to be stuck with an innie by default, you can change it. Nice feature, although obvs. most go 3rd-party for their sexy items. It's purely a cosmetic change, there's no functionality down there. (Deliberately designed that way).
• For body mod creators, there's an API for you, so you can hide the appropriate section of the body that is used as part of your mod.
• No alpha HUD. (This is a good thing, as alpha HUDs mean the body is made in such a manner that it creates a lot of render lag).
• Uses SLNeck. (This should be a given for new bodies, but FYI).
• Uses mesh-swapping for foot shape. (This is what most bodies do, but just means the Bento skeleton isn't being used to it's full potential. See the Cinnamon & Chai body for bento feet!)
• Applier layers present. (I'm told there is a LITE version of the body without these included with the body).
• Feet are resizeable via shape sliders.
• Body has all 3 physics zones functional (Breasts, belly and butt).
• Rigging seems to be, on average, better than Lara. Shoulders and groin are immaculate as far as I can tell. Body is very flexible with it's shape, although again, due to the pain points listed above not all shapes will look natural.

Again, though, this body is no-mod.

This seems like a poor choice, the reasons given for this decision were... not very good. I wasn't going to spend my time arguing that it should be mod, but given that 2 of the successful recent body releases (that I know of) are mod (Namely, eBody Reborn and Kalhene Erika), you'd have thought that other body creators would take note of this trend.

[Marianne Little]

Thank you @Jenna Huntsman. I will probably demo it. I have bought other bodies, because for a while, I was listening to those pointing out "Maitreya (insert body parts) are so bad". But I don't use those bodies. But never say never. I deleted 1000 items from my inventory yesterday. Things tend to get old fast. So it is not impossible for me to go from Maitreya. It is only unlikely.

For a new body to rise, it needs a lot of creators creating for it. And it needs to be in both events and weekend sales. It must be really, really easy to shop for. 

I can't say I need to change my lady parts on Maitreya. And if I do, it is lots of well made add-ons, that let the lady bits do a lot. A lot more than default labias can. 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Marianne Little

[Trinity Blakewell]

6 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I deleted 1000 items from my inventory yesterday. Things tend to get old fast.

 

 

I hear you. Except I need to get rid of like 20,000 items!

As far as adapting a new body, I'm taking a wait and see attitude. Unless I get one free. 😀

[Cougar Sangria]

Just ain't interested.  There is only one for me and it is Lara.

[Nalates Urriah]

On 9/2/2022 at 9:11 AM, Charalyne Blackwood said:

Are Slink hands and feet still separate from the body?

This is a yes and no answer. Yes, the hands and feet are sold separately. No, bodies are sold with hands and feet as part of the body. And I think current packages include a body with separate hands and feet. But read the fine print in the promo material. The newer stuff is combined to save attachment point use.

[AmeliaJ08]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:12 PM, Rowan Amore said:

Tonic Fine.  I actually saw the size included in a demo of something new I picked up recently.  Not sure from where though.  

Dolly Daydream has been good for supporting Tonic Fine with high quality items.

Much respect for the makers who support these less common bodies, its a nice one and deserves nice things.

[Sparkle Bunny]

A bit sad if this new Prima body means the Tonics are being discontinued. Tonic Fine is my favourite body for a slender look; it's a smaller butt than I can get with Maitreya or Atenea, it's good value for money and even nowadays I find the Omega compatibility useful (mainly for manicures). There's not enough clothing specifically for it for me to be able to manage without alpha cuts, though.

(Also, last time I upgraded an Atenea alt to BOM it had gone up to L$250, even if you bought the version without the foot mod. That's inflation for you, though still a good deal.)

[skepwith]

On 9/10/2022 at 8:24 PM, Sparkle Bunny said:

A bit sad if this new Prima body means the Tonics are being discontinued. Tonic Fine is my favourite body for a slender look; it's a smaller butt than I can get with Maitreya or Atenea, it's good value for money and even nowadays I find the Omega compatibility useful (mainly for manicures). There's not enough clothing specifically for it for me to be able to manage without alpha cuts, though.

(Also, last time I upgraded an Atenea alt to BOM it had gone up to L$250, even if you bought the version without the foot mod. That's inflation for you, though still a good deal.)

The good news is that if you have a Tonic body, you can get the corresponding Prima body (Petite/Busty) for L$1000 or the Prima Elite (combination of both plus a big set of deformers) for L$2000 from now until the end of the year. It won't fit your Tonic clothes or Slink shoes though. Lara shoes are likely to work but apparently no promises.

Demos are available in the Tonic store. There are definitely some neat features. You can choose shape adjustments for the bust, vulva, bellybutton, and butt cheeks from the HUD. Lots of nail shapes to choose from. I was able to wear a few different Lara shoes with no problems.

Edit to add: the demo shapes that come with it are terrible, no mod, and with distorted hands, I swear I do not understand why creators feel the need to do this. Making a shape of your own for it is a better way to demo anyway. I do like the way it responds to the sliders that I've played with so far.

Edited September 24, 2022 by skepwith

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

On 9/5/2022 at 1:15 AM, Jenna Huntsman said:

Again, though, this body is no-mod.

This seems like a poor choice, the reasons given for this decision were... not very good. I wasn't going to spend my time arguing that it should be mod, but given that 2 of the successful recent body releases (that I know of) are mod (Namely, eBody Reborn and Kalhene Erika), you'd have thought that other body creators would take note of this trend.

Also Belleza v6 which is 'semi-recent' (just after Kalhene right?). So that's 3 recent options that went Mod.

There's no rational reason to be no-Mod, but there are plenty of psycho-paranoid illogical reasons to.

Belleza X will be Mod though, and is coming out around the same time as Prima (hopefully NOT +/- the usual 1-2 year Belleza delays or this is a moot point) - so unless people want a built in non-functional labia layer, Prima would be dead in the water. If it has T-Rex hands as your post implied, that would kill it even faster.

If you're trying to motivate people to give up what they already have and move to something totally new - you need a LOT of reasons for them to do so.

Mod may not be THE DECIDING FACTOR for everyone (tangent mode: it will be the moment people want to make 'Na'Vi' avatars again for the Avatar 2 movie and need to put on an emission mask skin... but that's only in my head because this alt was made for that movie. The first time I saw a furry with skin that actually had glowing 'bioluminescent' lines this alt's original purpose flat out died)... but it is ONE FACTOR that is getting more and more notable as people explore what they can do with BOM and see Mod in other bodies.

Why would someone give up a perfectly good Maitreya for something that was merely an equal to it? It has to just not be better, but WAY BETTER for someone to say "I'm willing to toss out 8+ years of fashion inventory for that new thing".

Kupra and such only managed that because of their cartoon look being so different. Belleza Freya only hangs on because it can do realistic curves, and even that wasn't enough until v6 was also mod.

Edited September 24, 2022 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

On 9/5/2022 at 1:15 AM, Jenna Huntsman said:

I'm aware - unfortunately pretty much all of the public images of the body either don't show that much, or as you say, are photoshopped.

I managed to obtain a prerelease copy of the body (Not sure if I'm allowed to take photos) - I'd say it's a nice body, but not without a couple faults:

• Hands are modelled in such a way that they are designed too small for the size of the body. (Could be just how I tend to measure my hand shape, as I tend to say it's correct when my index finger is aligned with one side of the arm, and my ring finger with the other side).

 

 As for proper hand size:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/average-hand-size#summary

- Some assorted variety, but it's related to height.

The 'easy guide for artists:

https://www.paintdrawpaint.com/2011/03/drawing-basics-drawing-hand-proportions.html

Quote

Size of  the Hand

In general, the hand is three quarters the length of the head, as measured from the chin to the top of the head. This is good to keep in mind so that we can keep the size of the hands proportional as compared to each other and the rest of the figure.

And the 'so much info your eyes will glaze over before it ever gets to the point' article:

https://www.joshuanava.biz/hands/proportions-and-measurements.html

Quote

RELATIONSHIP OF HAND MEASURES TO FACE AND ARM
If the base of the pal™ is level with the chin base, as shown at left, the fingers will reach the brow, and the long middle finger will touch the hairiinc. If the thumb is placed in the inner arm elbow depression, as shown at right, the hand will span from that point to the base of the palm, A knowledge of these proportions will be extremely useful when dealing with the figure as a whole.

HAND AND FACE MEASUREMENTS
In a final note on measured relationships, if the hand is placed in side position and laid on the brow, it will fit almost exactly between the hairline and the eyebrows. In some cases, a large hand will also cover the nose root. The palm can also be placed in side position in contact with the nose base, and the side of the palm will reach the base of the chin. These measuring cues can he especially useful when drawing multiple figure compositions.

- That said if I was making a new human body, I'd want that last article so I could be sure I got things like "how long is the pinky supposed to be in relation to the thumb" correct... More detail than we need, but the amount the body designers need. I've bought or demos a couple bodies in the past that had weird long, too skinny, or too short of fingers. If it was enough for me to just see at a glance, then it must have been severely off.

 

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

52 minutes ago, skepwith said:

The good news is that if you have a Tonic body, you can get the corresponding Prima body (Petite/Busty) for L$1000 or the Prima Elite (combination of both plus a big set of deformers) for L$2000 from now until the end of the year. It won't fit your Tonic clothes or Slink shoes though. Lara shoes are likely to work but apparently no promises.

Demos are available in the Tonic store. There are definitely some neat features. You can choose shape adjustments for the bust, vulva, bellybutton, and butt cheeks from the HUD. Lots of nail shapes to choose from. I was able to wear a few different Lara shoes with no problems.

Edit to add: the demo shapes that come with it are terrible, no mod, and with distorted hands, I swear I do not understand why creators feel the need to do this. Making a shape of your own for it is a better way to demo anyway. I do like the way it responds to the sliders that I've played with so far.

I'm all over it right now seeing what it's like.. I heard demo and dropped everything! hehehe

[CalypsoJewel]

Having demoed the Prima bodies, something about the hips bothers me.. perhaps it that you seem to need to shorten your torso for it to look good in the waist/tummy section? Curvy seems to deal better than Elite with the sliders, but I still feel like they suffer the same thing Legacy does where the leg muscles can't go very big compared to the hips. Very easy to get pony thighs with it.
Overall pretty, and could be a nice "new" for Maitreya or small frame body fans. Seems like it leans better toward pear shape than hourglass.

Personally I will be holding off. The market is stupidly oversaturated as is and I am not made of money to buy every body that comes along. I am waiting to see Belleza's as that is more important to me. If I have extra money later and it does well, sure, i'll get one.

Edited September 24, 2022 by CalypsoJewel

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

 As for proper hand size:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/average-hand-size#summary

- Some assorted variety, but it's related to height.

The 'easy guide for artists:

https://www.paintdrawpaint.com/2011/03/drawing-basics-drawing-hand-proportions.html

And the 'so much info your eyes will glaze over before it ever gets to the point' article:

https://www.joshuanava.biz/hands/proportions-and-measurements.html

- That said if I was making a new human body, I'd want that last article so I could be sure I got things like "how long is the pinky supposed to be in relation to the thumb" correct... More detail than we need, but the amount the body designers need. I've bought or demos a couple bodies in the past that had weird long, too skinny, or too short of fingers. If it was enough for me to just see at a glance, then it must have been severely off.

 

 

 

The hands for Prima and maitreya are really close..

Put it this way.. My Maitreya ring sets fit on the Prima demo.. My Maitreya 3rd party nails just missed fitting .. Parts of them sat just under the nail ..The hands look nice on the Prima..

From what I can tell the big difference between the two is in the shoulders.. The shoulders were brought in a little more than the Maitreya's which seems to have helped with the noodle effect in the underarms, so your shoulder blades don't look like they are being pushed towards each other..

 I used my shape and almost the whole prima body from fits inside my maitreya body.. other than the breasts.. it's probably a big reason why the breasts look so big on the Prima body..

I was checking out my Maitreya boots with it and Tehy are close to fitting the thigh high's But just miss making it.. Ankle boots and looser fitting boots I think they will fit..

Clothes seem to be close enough that they have to do a little alpha cutting or layers, but not anythign where it will look too out of shape..

I think if they price it higher than Maitreya, it's gonna have a hard time competing with it.. I really don't think they are going to pull  people from their Maitreyas, unless they can find a way to wear their Maitreya things that isn't putting too much of a hassle on them..

I haven't messed with the hud or the deformers too much so they might be able to do something with those and things work out.. but out of the box, the breast have more of a plastic surgery feel to them where the  Maitreya's are more shapely and natural looking especially from the side..

Like i said, I haven't toyed with the huds or anything yet.. this is more just an out of the box comparing.. I wore both bodies at the same time and would take one off to see and put it back on,, then did the same with the other..

You can see more of a difference when you take the Maitreya off and put it back on over the Prima, than you can taking the Prima off and putting it back on.. Prima fits right inside a Maitreya and only pops out in a few place.. hehehe

It's gonna depend on the price of the elite body as to if I'll be getting it or not.. If it's much more than the maitreya  then probably not, but if it's lower or close I probably will..

I'm not spending 5k for it if that's what it comes out of the gate at.. I'm done spending 5k this body or 5k for this head.. To me that's trend setter money not play along money..hehehehe

[Charalyne Blackwood]

If the new body is marketed towards the current trend of body shapes, I'm completely uninterested.

[Gabriele Graves]

There's simply no way I'm moving off Maitreya on to anything else.  I don't see the point if you're happy with it as I am.  I can understand people wanting a different body style/shape that they cannot get with their Maitreya or if there is something that bugs them about it that they simply cannot overlook but even then I would suspect every body has/will have things about it that bugs people.  I would say be careful you aren't trading one set of things that bug you for another.

[skepwith]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

The hands for Prima and maitreya are really close..

Put it this way.. My Maitreya ring sets fit on the Prima demo.. My Maitreya 3rd party nails just missed fitting .. Parts of them sat just under the nail ..The hands look nice on the Prima..

I didn't see any problems with the hands either. After playing with shape sliders a bit, I did notice that the Torso Muscle slider thickens the arms all the way to the wrist, whereas Maitreya Lara's arms don't increase in diameter after about 2/3s or 3/4s down the forearm. That could make the hands appear to be smaller if you judge how they compare to arm thickness. I prefer the way Prima does it; you can have pretty dainty wrists!

1 hour ago, Charalyne Blackwood said:

If the new body is marketed towards the current trend of body shapes, I'm completely uninterested.

Even the Busty is on the thin side aside from the chest, which was also true for the old Tonic Curvy. The Petite really does seem to be the next generation of the Tonic Fine, which is a body I've been tempted by for quite a while. The question is whether it's that much better than a Maitreya with the Petite add-on and a good set of deformers. I'm thinking probably not, at full price. But if you do already have a Tonic body, the price of the Prima becomes low enough that it might be worth it.

[Ceka Cianci]

6 minutes ago, skepwith said:

I didn't see any problems with the hands either. After playing with shape sliders a bit, I did notice that the Torso Muscle slider thickens the arms all the way to the wrist, whereas Maitreya Lara's arms don't increase in diameter after about 2/3s or 3/4s down the forearm. That could make the hands appear to be smaller if you judge how they compare to arm thickness. I prefer the way Prima does it; you can have pretty dainty wrists!

 

Ya, I'm definitely going to toy around with it more.. It has things I like about it, I'm hoping the more I toy with it the more I find. I haven't even dove into the hud too much or even opened up the deformers yet..

Plus I'm curious if there are certain things of Maitreya's that will fit ,as far as clothes.. Probably not in the tops because of the breasts.. But accessories and pants and things I think  it's gonna be close on some brands.. Some pants were just right there on the cusp of fitting.. hehehe

Still, I will probably wait on getting it, mainly to see how many creators pick it up, plus hold out for a few updates as well.. That is unless I really start enjoying what I'm finding from the demo's, then I'm not gonna be able to resist.. hehehehe

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

3 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

The hands for Prima and maitreya are really close..

So the poster I was replying to just had a bad shape? I did see another post saying the shape in the demo was a mess.

Even though it's now a dead brand, I won't name it - but there was a body I tried a few years back that had horrible pencil skinny fingers that were so long you'd think they were making a Roswell Alien avatar and not a human body... Thus the motive for other parts of my post.

Anatomy is hard... and I marvel at people who can make a mesh body that has decent anatomy.

Edited September 25, 2022 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

So the poster I was replying to just had a bad shape? I did see another post saying the shape in the demo was a mess.

That might be the case. They looked good on my shape.. I didn't use any of the shapes that came with the body demo..

In fact now that I think of it, Everything looked good using my Maitreya shape..  I didn't really have to mess with anything  and could have hit the road right out of the box.. So if people have their maitreya shapes, they might not feel the need to change much if they do change over..

I still am going to mess with the sliders and see what all I can do..

Edited September 25, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

3 hours ago, Charalyne Blackwood said:

If the new body is marketed towards the current trend of body shapes, I'm completely uninterested.

From what I understand both the Prima and the Belleza X (I forget it's proper title) are aimed at competing NOT with Kupra, but with Maitreya / Legacy / Freya.

That's part of why I feel justified in my 'it has to be Mod' rant.

Because if you're trying to compete with Maitreya head on, with a side shot at Legacy and Freya - you need something that says "this is something you don't yet have".

Even Mod is not enough though. It might be enough for me - but to actually steal users away from Maitreya you're going to need to land like a 65-million year old Meteor. Anything less and you'll be forgotten. I'm not actually sure what other features it would need - just that it would need a LOT of them. I think most of the features it would really need would apply to third party addon makers - you need to get people to desperately want to support it, and make it super easy for them - so that they sell it for you.

But how?

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver