Banlines...

[Paul Hexem]

What's the point of buying mainland parcels on protected LL roads if I'm going to hit invisible banlines every time I lag or veer off or cross a sim?

Is it me, or should banlines be more visible across the sim so that we can STEER AROUND them, instead of getting stuck, often losing our vehicles, and having to teleport out (or worse, log off completely)? That's almost akin to being greifed.

Hell, when you look at it that way, it almost feels like banlines should be AR'ed when used near protected land.

/rant

[Chelsea Malibu]

Some places in SL suck, others dont.  Banlines are not going to go away becuase they are inconvient when you ride near them.  The best bet is to do what most do, stay off Mainland Sims and buy/ride on sims where there is a single owner made for them.

Sorry to rain on your rant.  :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

 

 

[Hugsy Penguin]

It would be great if ban lines (and other parcel properties that disrupt vehicles) would be displayed on the map/mini-map.

Not all road-side parcels with ban lines are disruptive, in particular, when the road is properly centered on the Linden land and has a barrier on either side (assuming you're driving).  I have seen a case, however, where the Linden road encroached on a resident's property and that resident had ban lines up (ban lines extending onto the road) even though there was absolutely nothing on their land.  Hitting that and losing my vehicle sure did feel like griefing.

[Jessika Rang]

Not sure what viewer you are using but in the View menu you should be able to toggle view banlines on and off.

[Paul Hexem]

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

Some places in SL suck, others dont.  Banlines are not going to go away becuase they are inconvient when you ride near them.  The best bet is to do what most do, stay off Mainland Sims and buy/ride on sims where there is a single owner made for them.

Sorry to rain on your rant.  :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

 

 

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In other words, drive in a tiny little circle in a single sim, despite all the work the LDPW did on making mainland roads? Great advice.

 

And yes, I do have them toggled on. The problem is, even turned on, you don't often see them until you're right on top of them. This is especially true with "Buy pass" lines. Go try flying across mainland sometime, below 70 meters. Even without a vehicle, see if you have time to stop when you see a ban line, before you hit it. Then add a couple seconds to that reaction time for SL physics, scripts, and potential lag.

And in the case of sim crossing, you don't see them at all until you've crossed the sim... and already crashed into them.

[Luc Starsider]

If you could see the ban lines a great distances, SL would not look very nice, with white and yellow lines going all over the place. At least in some regions - probably mostly on mainland, but still - ban lines are used quite a lot. I'm glad they are not visible from farther away than now, even if it means I crash into them from time to time. Even if it means I run into them more often, I have them not showing most of the time.

- Luc -

[Paul Hexem]

In that case Luc, you'd go into the View menu and toggle them off. Then when you want to take a vehicle out, toggle them back on.

As it stands now, it's worthless to toggle it on, because you can't see it until you're on top of it and it's too late to do anything about it then, except hope that your vehicle lands on the border to their parcel so they can't return it and annoys them more after you're gone.

[Liisa Runo]

Banlines sure are annoying. Never talked with a parson who use banlines so i dont really know why some people use them.Sometimes i get the feeling that people use them "just because i can. my land, i dont care about other people" or something like that.

I live in mainland and i always allow everyone to enjoy my lands. I even allow everyone to build. I have autoreturn.

To get privacy i go up to space. I dont feel i get privacy on ground level even if i raise banlines.

Would be cool if banlines would always be visible to owner. That way the owner would see the same ugly they show to neighbors. And would be cool if it would be possible to make banlines visible from far far away when you travel. Maybe a slider.

Kinky people got zindra. Maybe it is time to make new continent for banline people and force them to move there.

[Luc Starsider]

Yes, but say you were out flying across some mainland. You turn ban lines on. If you could see them from great distances, you wouldn't get much of a view of the land, I think. You would see a lot of yellow tape, though (Not that I've been flying around on the mainland, so I don't really know if it is a problem or not...)

- Luc -

[Peggy Paperdoll]

We used to get into some pretty heated discussions over ban lines a few year back.  All the arguments for and against them haven't changed even a little bit.  There's a side that is ambivalent and more or less neutral.......the take it as it is group (I'm in that group).  There's the side that says "it's my land and I'll do what I please"......not many have spoken up in this thread but believe me, they're out there (and, to be fair, many of those are just ignorant of what ban lines are and how effective they are).  Then there's the side who thinks because it disrupts their personal SL experience that ban lines should be banned (and those are the most vocal about ban lines).

 

There are many things in life that some people (even a majority of people) don't like.  But should they be outlawed or banned?  If that's the case, then I vote to ban palm trees from being planted in residental areas...........have you ever seen the mess they make when the Santa Ana winds blow here in Southern California?

[Darren Oates]

Arrg dont get me started on this banline stupidity yep i agree you should have a option to see them from atleast half a sim away toggled opt in option on viewer.

They are not banlines they are just a mess of TEXT upon TEXT a banline should look like ______________ Well a line

Also the parcel owner / owners or Groups that has opted to use a banline on their parcel should also see the banline while the little lost man on his 512 is penned in like a sardine by TEXT TEXT TEXT

                                                                                                                                                                     

[Paul Hexem]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

We used to get into some pretty heated discussions over ban lines a few year back.  All the arguments for and against them haven't changed even a little bit.  There's a side that is ambivalent and more or less neutral.......the take it as it is group (I'm in that group).  There's the side that says "it's my land and I'll do what I please"......not many have spoken up in this thread but believe me, they're out there (and, to be fair, many of those are just ignorant of what ban lines are and how effective they are).  Then there's the side who thinks because it disrupts their personal SL experience that ban lines should be banned (and those are the most vocal about ban lines).

 

There are many things in life that some people (even a majority of people) don't like.  But should they be outlawed or banned?  If that's the case, then I vote to ban palm trees from being planted in residental areas...........have you ever seen the mess they make when the Santa Ana winds blow here in Southern California?

---

 

I don't want to remove them. If people want to use them, that's fine. I also don't want everyone to be forced to have to look at them. I'd just love to have the option to toggle "Always show at any distance" for my own use (and any other vehicle drivers that want some kind of warning so they don't lose their vehicles).

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

There's the side that says "it's my land and I'll do what I please"......not many have spoken up in this thread but believe me, they're out there (and, to be fair, many of those are just ignorant of what ban lines are and how effective they are).

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They tend to be libertarian extremists, so you don't see them participating in something as communitarian as a forum.

 

[Cio Koba]

Lol..  Im on the ban the banlines side

[Marigold Devin]

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Liisa Runo wrote:

 Maybe it is time to make new continent for banline people and force them to move there.

---

 

(chortles) I like that idea :matte-motes-smile:

[Melita Magic]

I am not in favor of ban lines or orbs alongside a Linden road or waterway. I find it less than sporting. (Mainly because they almost always slop over onto the road, and in a waterway it totally stops people from boating.)

If it is dry docked land, then I can't see why others should tell them what to do. Even if it is highly annoying.

Any orbs should allow at least 60 seconds for the person to teleport home. Aside from people being AFK, the avatar could lag through the orb accidentally, or lag could cause the pop up to take too long to appear. 

Any orb should only affect the parcel it sits on.

[Pussycat Catnap]

I've generally got my Orbs set to 1 second. But I use orbs only in places people have no logical reason being - like above 2000m in a personal skybox of build platform.

Orbs and banlines at ground are though, just unseemly and unsporting.

 

 

[Tiffy Vella]

This debate has always been heated and probably always will be, as we have two opposed ways of looking at the world, invariably pitted against each other. But, if this were my world, and I were the Big-Fat-Empress-Of-Everything, I'd have it like this....(cue dreamy fantasy music)

Ground level- ban all banlines, and let people wander at will on foot/horseback, and drive at will on roads, sail at will on waters.They should always be ejectable and bannable by the landowner/group officers if they behave badly.

Up to say about 400m (100m or so above the clouds)- ban all banlines, and let people fly at will, including in aircraft, with the expectation that they will show common courtesy and not fly into any low-lying skyboxes. Naughty people can still be kicked out and banned. Anyone who really didn't want to be flown into could move their structures a little higher.

Over whatever that height was (say, above when you can no longer view the ground comfortably)- a range of up to 1000m where skyboxes can be built without obstructing aircraft, but is still semi-public land, according to the wishes of the landowner.

Over that height (1500m-ish up)- owners are permitted to use effective banlines to maintain privacy for skyboxes on their own land. Everyone else can choose whether these are visible to them or not, to avoid visual pollution. Orbs can zap people to death very painfully in the goolies within 2 seconds after the first warning, even if they only tried to cam-perv in. And their alts. And their alts' meeroos.

Basically, a system of increasing privacy with altitude. Also, I'm thinking as a Mainlander (as ever), and imagine that if someone paid for their own island, they'd not expect to share it unless they chose to.

[Qie Niangao]

I quite like the idea of an all-banlines continent.  It also seems only fair that landowners should see their own banlines.

I avoid the Marketplace as much as possible, but I'd have thought that there'd be HUDs that could at least hint about the sociopathology of parcel settings ahead.  

I'm envisioning something that would just keep scanning all the 4x4m bits of land in a swath however wide, toward the direction of motion, calling llGetParcelFlags() for PARCEL_FLAG_USE_ACCESS_GROUP, _ACCESS_LIST, _LAND_PASS_LIST, and (not) _ALLOW_SCRIPTS, and whichever side had the nasty-bits set would get a red arrow pointing toward the center of the screen.

I haven't really tried this myself.  My hunch is that this function would be fast enough and cheap enough to work for all but high-speed fliers.  (That's in contrast to llGetParcelPrimCount() and llGetParcelMaxPrims(), which along with sim border detection would be needed to avoid the dreaded SVC-22.)

[Marigold Devin]

---

Tiffy Vella wrote:

This debate has always been heated and probably always will be, as we have two opposed ways of looking at the world, invariably pitted against each other. But, if this were

my

world, and

I

were the Big-Fat-Empress-Of-Everything, I'd have it like this....(cue dreamy fantasy music)

Ground level- ban all banlines, and let people wander at will on foot/horseback, and drive at will on roads, sail at will on waters.They should always be ejectable and bannable by the landowner/group officers if they behave badly.

Up to say about 400m (100m or so above the clouds)- ban all banlines, and let people fly at will, including in aircraft, with the expectation that they will show common courtesy and not fly into any low-lying skyboxes. Naughty people can still be kicked out and banned. Anyone who really didn't want to be flown into could move their structures a little higher.

Over whatever that height was (say, above when you can no longer view the ground comfortably)- a range of up to 1000m where skyboxes can be built without obstructing aircraft, but is still semi-public land, according to the wishes of the landowner.

Over that height (1500m-ish up)- owners are permitted to use effective banlines to maintain privacy for skyboxes on their own land. Everyone else can choose whether these are visible to them or not, to avoid visual pollution. Orbs can zap people to death very painfully in the goolies within 2 seconds after the first warning, even if they only tried to cam-perv in. And their alts. And their alts' meeroos.

Basically, a system of increasing privacy with altitude. Also, I'm thinking as a Mainlander (as ever), and imagine that if someone paid for their own island, they'd not expect to share it unless they chose to.

---

I'm chortling a lot - and I think you should start a whole new thread called "If I were the big-fat-emperor/empress of SL I would ... " ... (have at least 3 LL employees each day come along to peel me a grape/stalk a whole list of people on my behalf/play naughty tricks like raising the water level by 200m on all sims just for one hour/have naked Wednesdays)

[Jaylin Wytchwood]

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Ban-Line-Parcel-Full-HUD-Essential-for-all-Vehicles-Explorers-and-Landlords/1269113

This might help, i know sailors who use it,on Linden waterways.

[Peewee Musytari]

Instead of the banlines being invisible to the person using them, they should see huge ugly dayglo text on them saying:

I HAVE ANNOYING BANLINES AROUND MY LAND - I HAVE ANNOYING BANLINES AROUND MY LAND - I HAVE ANNOYING BANLINES AROUND MY LAND -  I HAVE ANNOYING BANLINES AROUND MY LAND - I HAVE ANNOYING BANLINES AROUND MY LAND - I HAVE ANNOYING BANLINES AROUND MY LAND - I HAVE ANNOYING BANLINES AROUND MY LAND - I HAVE ANNOYING BANLINES AROUND MY LAND 

Blocking their view of the rest of the sim, see how many would use them then lol

 

[Jaylin Wytchwood]

---

Peewee Musytari wrote:

Instead of the banlines being invisible to the person using them, they should see huge ugly dayglo text on them saying:

I HAVE ANNOYING BANLINES AROUND MY LAND - 

I HAVE ANNOYING whinewhine.

Blocking their view of the rest of the sim, see how many would use them then lol

 

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Would Anti-Kudos exist... i wold give you one for this answer.

 

Who are you to forbid someone to hinder others enter their land?

Everone who got griefed or annoyed on his own land will understand me.

I agree, that banlines might be annoying sometimes, but i think, EDUCATING

a Landowner about the effects of his line is much mor fritfull that your suggestion.

 

I might point out to the "Open Waters Project", offering adice to Landowners near waterways, to facilitate sailing.

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

Yes, educated landowners are much less likely to use whitelist banlines.  Based on my experience talking to neighbors, I estimate that at least 75% of all whitelist banlines are there by mistake or due to a complete misunderstanding of what they do.  

The fact that the landowner doesn't see their own banlines contributes to those mistakes; they can't see that their banlines only go up 50m Above Ground Level -- which is very often irrelevant to the part of the parcel's space they're trying to keep private.

Perhaps another 20% of these things are just the landowner trying to bring grief to a neighbor over some dispute (oblivious to the fact that now everybody else in the sim thinks that landowner is a jerk).

That leaves about 1 in 20 banlines doing what they were intended to do.  But, lemme tell ya, for those 1 in 20 users, you'll pry their banlines out of their cold dead hands.  (Cue Charleton Heston.)

[Cerise Sorbet]

There is a nice touch on the newest viewers, they added a warning on the land settings that no public access adds ban lines.