Does second life offer you with a meaningful experience ?

[Silent Mistwalker]

20 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

A bound paper copy of any successful thesis is generally stored in a repository following the successful completion of an oral defense.

But theses themselves have been delivered in electronic form (usually PDF) since . . . gosh, probably the early 2000s. Mine was.

For me, college ended long before 2000 when home computers were still too expensive for most people and laptops (first one was 1985) didn't exist yet. Things may have changed since then, but nothing can replace a hardcopy.

The frequency of these requests is increasing. That is not a good thing imo because we don't know what kind of impact these things are having on those who do actually read them. I'm not interested in further skewing an already distorted view of SL.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, SuraCiel said:

Thank you, I am aware, after studying this game and Sura has told me about, I discover it offers a lot of contents in its own way.

Before that, most will use World of Warcraft as the example of MMORPG (there are quite a number of studies on that too), but then I found that SL can fulfill the needs differently, the sense of belongness and the social needs in SL are different and also the freedom to explore the content (created by other players) of in-game world. It is like having a "second life" from the real life.

But I do not understand is, why the player base is relatively smaller than other games, because of the time needed ? As Sura told me, it took her days to make her character lookable, and even longer to have a place that looks ok. And I have played around the control, it is quite difficult to use actually. The experience of the control and the experience in the game are so different , and why the game developers do not improve the experience so more people can be attracted to this game ?

I just dont know and like to know more through the responses

This has been the subject of ongoing discussion within the SL community. The technology is now old and clunky, the UI is not great (and is quite a bit different from the average FPS or MMORPG), and the learning curve for new users pretty steep.

Part of the problem is that the code would need to be rewritten from the ground up to bring it entirely up to contemporary standards. And were that done, a really vast amount of content would not be portable from the old platform to the new. That's an issue because the content is almost all user-generated: it can't simply be "replaced" with new shiny provided by the platform.

There is also, inevitably, a lot of resistance to change among SL residents. And the standards and expectations that a gamer might have are somewhat moot, because gamers, in the sense of really committed ones, are only a segment of the population here, and almost certainly not a majority. Very very few of my own in-world friends are what most people would call "gamers." For that matter, although I have played some games, neither am I. And that's actually a strength of the platform in many regards: it frees SL up from the shackles normally associated with standard computer games.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Things may have changed since then, but nothing can replace a hardcopy.

I have colleagues who would agree, but most of those are teetering on the brink of, or long past standard retirement age.

It used to be that, if you wanted to read a copy of a thesis, you had to order a hard copy, which was pricey and annoying. I did this for my own MA, back in the late 90s. It was expensive, poorly bound (in cardboard) and badly printed. Now, almost all theses are available online in digitized form.

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

The frequency of these requests is increasing. That is not a good thing imo because we don't know what kind of impact these things are having on those who do actually read them. I'm not interested in further skewing an already distorted view of SL.

Or, you can take the view that this resurgence of interest in SL is a good sign. It hearkens back a little to the "good old days," when SL was viewed as sufficiently important to merit serious academic study.

I don't have the sense at all that this researcher is likely to "skew" SL. On the contrary, I'm actually rather excited and pleased by his overall approach, which seems to me quite well suited to what SL does and is.

[SuraCiel]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This has been the subject of ongoing discussion within the SL community. The technology is now old and clunky, the UI is not great (and is quite a bit different from the average FPS or MMORPG), and the learning curve for new users pretty steep.

Part of the problem is that the code would need to be rewritten from the ground up to bring it entirely up to contemporary standards. And were that done, a really vast amount of content would not be portable from the old platform to the new. That's an issue because the content is almost all user-generated: it can't simply be "replaced" with new shiny provided by the platform.

There is also, inevitably, a lot of resistance to change among SL residents. And the standards and expectations that a gamer might have are somewhat moot, because gamers, in the sense of really committed ones, are only a segment of the population here, and almost certainly not a majority. Very very few of my own in-world friends are what most people would call "gamers." For that matter, although I have played some games, neither am I. And that's actually a strength of the platform in many regards: it frees SL up from the shackles normally associated with standard computer games.

I am not those "gamers" too, I play games but I focus on the game design and the game business more. It is because there are always great people to develop games but the companies behind have made what the game industry as it is now.

Why it interests me because, how does this game be here for so long without big changes, and where will this game go when everything outside have changed ? If it changes, what about the people here, it is part of their life now. It is like a small world with people close to others in different groups, there is nothing like SL outside

[Love Zhaoying]

16 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

They are certainly an articulate lot.

Kind of where I was going with 1) complaining about having to write long answers, but 2) writing a long post about it. 

We may give the "best", "most complete" answers but..probably not representative at all of the general Second Life population.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Kind of where I was going with 1) complaining about having to write long answers, but 2) writing a long post about it. 

We may give the "best", "most complete" answers but..probably not representative at all of the general Second Life population.

Well, at least he'll get some data from us "loudmouths." 😏

[SuraCiel]

17 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

For me, college ended long before 2000 when home computers were still too expensive for most people and laptops (first one was 1985) didn't exist yet. Things may have changed since then, but nothing can replace a hardcopy.

The frequency of these requests is increasing. That is not a good thing imo because we don't know what kind of impact these things are having on those who do actually read them. I'm not interested in further skewing an already distorted view of SL.

It is the overall impression to gaming, as spread by the media (now that is a problem with media, we know there are less people trusting the media now), in the research world, there have been a changed of view on what games can do, it is true about the game addiction, sex, and bad people targeting young players. But that does not only happen in games (not even this game). It happens everywhere, so what we are trying to do is to discover the good side of games, and to use it to help. Just like movies and books that can change way of thinking for people.

I know , we are from a smaller group of researchers but we are definitely going to turn the tide

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

You're forgiven (as Luna would no doubt say), but tsk tsk.

I can only forgive so far, Scylla. The Lion should be punished!  I'd say spank him but he'd like that, so I suggest making him write  3 long paragraphs for each of his responses on the forum, for a week! 😉

[Rolig Loon]

25 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

32 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Things may have changed since then, but nothing can replace a hardcopy.

I have colleagues who would agree, but most of those are teetering on the brink of, or long past standard retirement age.

It used to be that, if you wanted to read a copy of a thesis, you had to order a hard copy, which was pricey and annoying. I did this for my own MA, back in the late 90s. It was expensive, poorly bound (in cardboard) and badly printed. Now, almost all theses are available online in digitized form.

My own dissertation was produced during the last year before the university decided that Xerox copies were probably stable enough to be accepted as the mandatory second and third archival copies. My copies (hardbound) were carbon copies, made with real carbon paper. Furthermore, the rules said that they could not contain any white-outs or erasures.  The typist would have to re-type an entire page if it contained an error.  Given those historical constraints as a backdrop, I view electronic submission as a giant leap forward.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Rolig Loon said:

My own dissertation was produced during the last year before the university decided that Xerox copies were probably stable enough to be accepted as the mandatory second and third archival copies. My copies (hardbound) were carbon copies, made with real carbon paper. Furthermore, the rules said that they could not contain any white-outs or erasures.  The typist would have to re-type an entire page if it contained an error.  Given those historical constraints as a backdrop, I view electronic submission as a giant leap forward.

Yikes. Yes.

Academia is almost paperless now. At least, my corner of it. So much so that I've decided to pitch the old filing cabinet I have.

On the other hand, no amount of badgering about the usefulness of eBooks will ever convince me not to buy mine in hard copy. I'll do light reading on a tablet or eReader, sometimes, but for anything I need to concentrate upon, I need bound paper. And it just feels . . . right.

[Akane Nacht]

54 minutes ago, SuraCiel said:

What I am trying to research is to answer the gap and misunderstanding of a lot of researches that focus only the pleasureable experience, which lead to gaming is not good for people. I want to clear this stigma through studying many different games.

Actually, there's been plenty written about the positive/beneficial aspects of gaming, in various contexts. There is a fair amount of debate about whether gaming is detrimental to young people, but that's not really SL's target group. 

[Gopi Passiflora]

I answered the survey, although my answers can be a bit half-hearted. I hope they are appropriate for your study and above all else, good luck with the paper!

[Love Zhaoying]

In case you didn't look at the questionnaire yet: it's about all types of games, not just MMPORG's, not just Second Life.

[Maitimo]

I did the survey, and I quite like the format of being able to free-type, instead of having some scales to choose a number on, that were clearly designed for FPS or MMO games and really don't fit the way that SL works.

SL is an open-world, free-creation platform and having a survey format which actually works the same way is a refreshing change from the types of survey that we usually get here.

@SuraCiel I wish your friend the best of luck in their study and hope they get a good result.

@Scylla Rhiadra I'm with you on paper books. I think it's a combination of the tactile sense, and the way they smell (fresh print for new ones, and that old musky scent of old ones). I don't get the same feeling of comfort when curled up on the sofa with a Kindle.

2 hours ago, SuraCiel said:

Why it interests me because, how does this game be here for so long without big changes, and where will this game go when everything outside have changed ? If it changes, what about the people here, it is part of their life now. It is like a small world with people close to others in different groups, there is nothing like SL outside

I've been in SL a long time (since 2006) and I think it's changed a lot in some ways, and yet in others it's remained the same. The technology is better, it no longer goes offline for a whole day every week because some griefer decided to play with a new self-replicating script, and you no longer worry about teleporting somewhere and arriving woth your shoes stuck up your butt (yes that was a real thing). But it is still now the same as it always was; a place for users to create what they want to crete and share it with others. Part of why change (other than technological improvements) is so slow is because the active userbase is basically the same bunch of people as it was a decade ago. Everyone's profile in SL has the date on which they joined "rezzed". Nearly everyone I meet has a  rez-date of at least 6-8 years ago, some much longer than that, and the majority of those that don't, turn out to be older players who have created another "alt" account.

Second Life doesnt change because the peple who make Second Life's content are its players and most of us have been here a very long time. Also, SL users tend to be older than players of other games. I'm 52 and in some SL communities I belong to, I'm one of the younger ones. The thing that will kill Second Life isn't change, or new technology, or a replacement equivalent (*cough*Meta*cough*). It will be when too many of us have grown old and passed away and there's no-one left to replace us.

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

resurgence of interest in SL

Is it really a resurgence of interest in SL or just an interest in getting through college? 

People are jumping to all kinds of conclusions about my meaning and every single one of them is so far off the track it's not funny.

As much as I have hated being stuck as an observer of humanity my whole life, I've recently come to the conclusion that I wouldn't want to have it any other way. No matter what happens I will not complicate my life any more than it already is. It's not worth the loses.

[SuraCiel]

1 hour ago, Maitimo said:

I did the survey, and I quite like the format of being able to free-type, instead of having some scales to choose a number on, that were clearly designed for FPS or MMO games and really don't fit the way that SL works.

SL is an open-world, free-creation platform and having a survey format which actually works the same way is a refreshing change from the types of survey that we usually get here.

@SuraCiel I wish your friend the best of luck in their study and hope they get a good result.

@Scylla Rhiadra I'm with you on paper books. I think it's a combination of the tactile sense, and the way they smell (fresh print for new ones, and that old musky scent of old ones). I don't get the same feeling of comfort when curled up on the sofa with a Kindle.

I've been in SL a long time (since 2006) and I think it's changed a lot in some ways, and yet in others it's remained the same. The technology is better, it no longer goes offline for a whole day every week because some griefer decided to play with a new self-replicating script, and you no longer worry about teleporting somewhere and arriving woth your shoes stuck up your butt (yes that was a real thing). But it is still now the same as it always was; a place for users to create what they want to crete and share it with others. Part of why change (other than technological improvements) is so slow is because the active userbase is basically the same bunch of people as it was a decade ago. Everyone's profile in SL has the date on which they joined "rezzed". Nearly everyone I meet has a  rez-date of at least 6-8 years ago, some much longer than that, and the majority of those that don't, turn out to be older players who have created another "alt" account.

Second Life doesnt change because the peple who make Second Life's content are its players and most of us have been here a very long time. Also, SL users tend to be older than players of other games. I'm 52 and in some SL communities I belong to, I'm one of the younger ones. The thing that will kill Second Life isn't change, or new technology, or a replacement equivalent (*cough*Meta*cough*). It will be when too many of us have grown old and passed away and there's no-one left to replace us.

(I will give this account back to Sura , she wants to me to let her play) Although I have been around for a short amount of time, but have directly communicated with different people from SL. I can feel it is different from players of other games that I have talked to.

Players from other are less invested, (not money for in game items, people can spend a lot), but the emotion, they can play the same game for a whole day, but they may not be as emotionally invested as games that let players to make/build/share items (not just SL)

Also many participants have mentioned that I should join this game and feel. I really havnt heard that much from other games, that may reflect the sense of belonging where I wont experience in other places. (Of course, there maybe, just that I have not discovered it)

That is why I am interested to know (unrelated to my study) what would happen if this game is gone or there will be a SL 2 when all contents are gone. I think the emotional impact may be greater than many other games. Another example that I can think of would be minecraft, world of warcraft. 

Some of you may find I look at things differently, or it is common sense in US, or places with well developed psychological study. As much as I understand what is happening in the West, I will also look at what is happening in the East , which represents about 50-60% of players in the world with limited / little research on the benefits of games. With a fairly high number of gaming disorders and the view towards gaming is not as neutral as the West, we may do some works about it

But, that is my task, I should better get going and thank you all for helping me !

Edited July 22, 2022 by SuraCiel

[Cali Souther]

I did it - hope it helps.

[Coffee Pancake]

@SuraCiel

How do you propose to balance the conclusions drawn from talking to people here against the basic point that you have absolutely no experience or connection to the subject matter? That the work, whatever conclusions it draws, could well be just one more wildly inaccurate deprecation that goes against the interests of the people actually here (plenty already do).

How is this different from writing about the experiences of people into motorsports yet never even having seen a car.

How does you think people here feel about their depiction and utilization by academia as a special or unique cohort of online weirdos?

 

Also .. sharing accounts is against the ToS.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Coffee Pancake

[Love Zhaoying]

I finally did it despite my beotching and moaning earlier. Wasn't too bad.

Not sure what my problem was earlier, maybe I needed a Snickers bar.  I didn't eat one, still hangry.

[sirhc DeSantis]

Resonded to it. waste of time as always. Well it would be obvs

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 hours ago, SuraCiel said:

we are from a smaller group of researchers but we are definitely going to turn the tide

Good luck. I mean that sincerely. That's a long, steep, uphill battle you've chosen for yourselves. Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be Sisyphean.

Lots of research has already been done. 

[Kathlen Onyx]

I might take the time to do this survey if the person would have actually taken the time to create an account in SL AND a forum account and not gone through a third party.

[Coffee Pancake]

20 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I might take the time to do this survey if the person would have actually taken the time to create an account in SL AND a forum account and not gone through a third party.

They never do, to approach entirely independent and disconnected so as to better serve up our lives for judgement is almost the point.

[Akane Nacht]

5 hours ago, SuraCiel said:

As much as I understand what is happening in the West, I will also look at what is happening in the East , which represents about 50-60% of players in the world with limited / little research on the benefits of games. With a fairly high number of gaming disorders and the view towards gaming is not as neutral as the West, we may do some works about it

There has been plenty of research in East/Southeast Asia too, and while there is certainly concern for youth (see China's recent efforts to curb excessive gaming for kids), for groups like older adults, the research has focussed on the role of games in maintaining cognitive function and social engagement, which is a good thing considering Asia's rapidly aging population.  SL's user base is largely adults, no young kids (hopefully), and a fair number of older adults/seniors. You might want to refine the target group you are talking about, if you truly want some useful data.

[Melonie Romano]

Hi Sura, I was happy to fill out the survey of your friends.   I hope with what I have written with my answer to the questions that it will be a complete analysis of the meaningful game experiences.