So what do you all think to the Premium Plus package?

[Da5id Weatherwax]

5 minutes ago, Tary Allen said:

The main thing to me is land holdings.

For me, the extra 1024 would make no difference to my costs. As a result that's a smaller factor for me than it might be for many. I'll freely admit that I hold a bigger plot than I "need" but i swallow the cost of that because I want the PRIMS - the place had to have enough LI available to host my home, a place I could entertain guests and my inworld workshop - a place I can leave two or three high-LI projects rezzed in the workshop as I contemplate the solutions to their latest design or technical roadblock and not be hurting for LI availability to the point I have to clear stuff out of the workshop to redecorate elsewhere or have to clear the place out to work on a quick side-project, or quickly build a stage mockup to reconfigure my stage gear for a new venue etc...

[Liaa Nova]

4 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

it makes some sense that their is no quarterly Premium Plus plan

back when Linden raised the price of Premium they also planned to drop quaterly at that time

it was pointed out to Linden that there are people on low fixed incomes (pensions, disabilities, etc) actual poor people, who do not have an immediately available $100 to spend. That they have to save up to get this amount

and one of the example given, was that for some people the time needed to save up this amount was between now and next pay day. While with others (actual poor people) on low fixed income the save up time can run to 6 months or more. Like if can only save up $5 a week then will have to go without for 20 weeks to be able to have the $100. And in this case the overwhelming number of people in these financial situations go with the monthly plan. Spend $10 a month

that when so (as it is so) then the subscription plan is regressive. Only those who can put together $100 in a lump sum will get a discount. The poorest RL residents do not, not unless they go without a Linden Home for the duration of the initial save up period  

so the need for a quarterly discount to reduce the saveup time to get a discount

Linden took this onboard and put the quarterly Premium discount subscription back in. For actual RL poor people to be able to get some discount, while also keeping the saveup period shorter than 20 weeks or more had there only been a annual plan discount

this said. given the then argument for actual poor people, it makes sense to not have a quarterly Premium Plus account,.  Objectively, we are not RL poor when we opt to go for a Premium Plus account, which is 150% more than Premium 

 

 

I may be wrong, but couldn't the same be said for premium eg we're not rl poor if we upgrade from a free account, to premium, which nobody needs

[Tary Allen]

People don't need to justify their finantial RL satus to the LAB,  we have the money or we don't have.

The main question with quaterly is that there are people who prefer that for reasons of their own, and the LAB won't lose money,  from a business perspective it is better to have clients paying for 3 months than for one. But this is how I see it, 

 

[Liaa Nova]

Just now, Tary Allen said:

People don't need to justify their finantial RL satus to the LAB,  we have the money or we don't have.

The main question with quaterly is that there are people who prefer that for reasons of their own, and the LAB won't lose money,  from a business perspective it is better to have clients paying for 3 months than for one. But this is how I see it, 

 

My thoughts exactly

[Gabriele Graves]

21 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

it makes some sense that their is no quarterly Premium Plus plan

There's no Premium Quarterly Plan either any more it seems.  At least there is no option for either plan on my dashboard.

[Mollymews]

7 minutes ago, Liaa Nova said:

I may be wrong, but couldn't the same be said for premium eg we're not rl poor if we upgrade from a free account, to premium, which nobody needs

everything is relative yes, no matter our personal financial situation. Is true that a argument can be made that nobody needs anything relative to any other thing

and yet, when we are a pensioner or a person with disabilities and are unable to get out and about in the real world as those more fortunate than us, then we can bring the world to us thru the power of the internet

and is any number of people who are able to do this thru Second Life. To have a little virtual home, to have friends, to have some little brightness and happiness in their otherwise rather grim real life

and despite their real world difficulties were able to do this thru Second Lilfe and were also able to pay their own way. Paying our own way (as little as that may be sometimes) gives people dignity. I might be poor, I may be frail and in ill-health, but I do also have my dignity

Linden to their credit understood this

 

[Da5id Weatherwax]

2 minutes ago, Tary Allen said:

People don't need to justify their finantial RL satus to the LAB,  we have the money or we don't have.

The main question with quaterly is that there are people who prefer that for reasons of their own, and the LAB won't lose money,  from a business perspective it is better to have clients paying for 3 months than for one. But this is how I see it, 

 

I think the key is in their internal accounting processes around VAT-exemption on annual memberships - this is speculation on my part, you understand, but I think its reasonable. If their accounting is set up to make monthly VAT returns to those governments that levy it (which is the easiest way to do it and be sure you're not going to screw up, because the penalties for screwing up your VAT returns are UGLY. I know this, having been the RL owner of a business that had to be registered for VAT) but they have gained an exemption for annual renewals (I think I know how they did that but I'm going to follow @Patch Linden's lead in NOT going down that rabbit hole on this forum) then a quarterly plan offered to us will have them out of pocket for two out of every three months. For any new membership plans, this would make then disinclined - on the basis of perfectly valid business concerns - to make quarterly payments an option on that plan.

[Gabriele Graves]

23 minutes ago, Liaa Nova said:

I may be wrong, but couldn't the same be said for premium eg we're not rl poor if we upgrade from a free account, to premium, which nobody needs

My take is that if people have disposable income to spent in SL after all their RL concerns are taken care of then they aren't poor.  I don't think of this as being about poverty as such.  I see it as about affordability.  Some people find monthly plans more affordable, some quarterly and some yearly.  It's nice to have options to fit different groups of people.  If there had never been a quarterly option, I could understand not introducing it as it may take some costs to implement, but to remove it and risk loosing revenue, that I cannot fathom.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Mollymews]

8 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

There's no Premium Quarterly Plan either any more it seems.  At least there is no option for either plan on my dashboard.

if so then somewhere between the Linden Product group and the Development group there has been a break down in communication

maybe @Grumpity Linden or @Patch Lindencould enlighten us on what is happening here

Edited June 24, 2022 by Mollymews

[Tary Allen]

I don't know, most business around here that have monthly payments also offer yearly and an in-between (usually 6 months). It is a way to attract costumers, because there is also a bit of a discount associated, and clients fidelization is assured for those months.

We can have a multitude of reasons for the plans we choose, business like is good to offer more than an all or nothing plan. 

 

[Gabriele Graves]

Just now, Mollymews said:

if so then somewhere between the Linden Product group and the Development group there has been a break down in communication

maybe @Grumpity Linden or @Patch Linden could enlighten us on what is happening here

Perhaps, here is what is shown on my dashboard (I've edited out sensitive info):

[Da5id Weatherwax]

1 minute ago, Tary Allen said:

I don't know, most business around here that have monthly payments also offer yearly and an in-between (usually 6 months). It is a way to attract costumers, because there is also a bit of a discount associated, and clients fidelization is assured for those months.

We can have a multitude of reasons for the plans we choose, business like is good to offer more than an all or nothing plan. 

 

You are correct, of course. But we don't have any kind of visibility into their internal financial processes and nor should we, every company keeps that kind of stuff confidential for all sorts of reasons. I can think of at least half a dozen scenarios where a quarterly, as opposed to monthly or annual, option would present a higher "business risk"  and as such might not be one they'd want to offer They might be pushed into it by customer demand anyway but they'd at least try to exclude it out of the gate .

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

I find it sad and a bit typical of LL that their shiny new list of features are almost exclusively for people with Premium or Premium+ accounts and there is very little or indeed nothing new for the majority of people in SL who have ordinary basic accounts and who do not need, want or afford the Premium/Premium+ accounts and their fees. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Gabriele Graves]

While we're here...

@Mollymews Ngā mihi o Matariki, te tau hou Māori

[Da5id Weatherwax]

5 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

While we're here...

@Mollymews Ngā mihi o Matariki, te tau hou Māori

Is it silly of me to feel kinda good that the Maori culture shares in common with almost every other human culture to celebrate its new year around midwinter?

[Gabriele Graves]

2 minutes ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

Is it silly of me to feel kinda good that the Maori culture shares in common with almost every other human culture to celebrate its new year around midwinter?

Not at all, we all have more of a connection that we realise sometimes.  When we feel that connection, it does feel good.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Tary Allen]

3 minutes ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

Is it silly of me to feel kinda good that the Maori culture shares in common with almost every other human culture to celebrate its new year around midwinter?

It is the solstice, we were once more aware to the earth than now, but luckily some things still remain

[Cinos Field]

13 minutes ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

I find it sad and a bit typical of LL that their shiny new list of features are almost exclusively for people with Premium or Premium+ accounts and there is very little or indeed nothing new for the majority of people in SL who have ordinary basic accounts and who do not need, want or afford the Premium/Premium+ accounts and their fees. 

What shiny new features do you mean?

[Mollymews]

14 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

While we're here...

@Mollymews Ngā mihi o Matariki, te tau hou Māori

kia manaakitia koe me tō whānau i tēnei wā hari

 

[Da5id Weatherwax]

Just now, Tary Allen said:

It is the solstice, we were once more aware to the earth than now, but luckily some things still remain

Some of us still are. When you stand on ground that knows and welcomes you, and feel the seasons change around you then you're standing on holy ground, wherever you are.

[Mollymews]

1 minute ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

Some of us still are. When you stand on ground that knows and welcomes you, and feel the seasons change around you then you're standing on holy ground, wherever you are.

a saying that many cultures still share about the land that nurtures us

we do not inherit the land from our ancestors, it is loaned to us by our descendants

in some ways I think we as Second Life people feel the same way about our virtual world. That everything we make within it is for the benefit of those who will come after us

[Jules Catlyn]

2 hours ago, Cinos Field said:

Come on, Lindens. Sweeten the deal.

Is it allowed that the price isn't covered by all they are giving back? Just a thought

 

[Da5id Weatherwax]

4 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

a saying that many cultures still share about the land that nurtures us

we do not inherit the land from our ancestors, it is loaned to us by our descendants

in some ways I think we as Second Life people feel the same way about our virtual world. That everything we make within it is for the benefit of those who will come after us

i sure feel that way, Molly. 90% of the stuff I build in SL these days nobody else will see - or won't notice if they do. I'm fine with that.

As you say, that saying is widespread. I first heard it said that way - although I always knew it in my gut - from the writings of Chief Seattle. The years I spent living in the upper midwest of the USA I had the privilege to meet and become friends with an old Ojibwa man and have many long conversations about how the old traditions I was raised in, here in Scotland, aren't really that much different from how America's first peoples saw the land they lived with - not just on - There is a pipe bowl, made from MN pipestone, that he carved for me which to this day has an honored and respected place in my home.

[Mollymews]

14 minutes ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

many long conversations about how the old traditions I was raised in, here in Scotland, aren't really that much different from how America's first peoples saw the land they lived with - not just on

yes. Is the same when move thru all the continents like Europe, Asia, Africa, the Americas, Australasia/Pasifika. We all have our folklore handed down to us thru 1000s of years. The names might change from group to group, the way the stories are told may be different, but is lots of things we can relate to in the ways of other peoples due to their commonalities with our own

like european peoples didn't start with the invention of the steam engine. There is 1000s and 1000s of years before that. Peoples who went thru as much as any other indigenous peoples as hunter gatherers and then as farmers and on to engineers. Knowledge of things that they learned along the way (same as everybody else). Knowledge that is still passed on to the next generations as they have always been, no matter where in the world the peoples are

[Marianne Little]

I think LL may change their mind and reinstate quarterly payments. It is something they will not lose money on. Keep customers who can't pay annually, and give them a few dollars off. Better that, than they go back to basic.

And then LL can tell how they listen to us residents.