Benka Ravenhurst Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: You mean "mimic a rental" by having people pay rent? Isn't that like when someone "mimics a corpse" by being dead? You can buy a land pass on a parcel, but it is my opinion that it is not really suitable for most rental situations. Apart from that, people do not pay 'rent' when they purchase a parcel because the word 'rent' is being inappropriately used in that transaction. When you rent, you do not make a claim on the land nor are you listed as an owner. You join a group and from there, the group owner sets the parameters of what you can or cannot do on the parcel. When you pay for that service, that payment would be called 'rent'. When you make payments on land you own, you are not paying rent on the land because that is not the factual use of that word. What you are paying, if the the estate even charges you ( I don't charge for some folks ), you are paying a property tax. I call this a property tax because just as in real life, fees are often based on the size or value of the land ( some use prims which is size based). Edited March 18, 2022 by Benka Ravenhurst 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Benka Ravenhurst said: You can buy a land pass on a parcel, but it is my opinion that it is not really suitable for most rental situations. Apart from that, people do not pay 'rent' when they purchase a parcel because the word 'rent' is being inappropriately used in that transaction. When you rent, you do not make a claim on the land nor are you listed as an owner. You join a group and from there, the group owner sets the parameters of what you can or cannot do on the parcel. When you pay for that service, that payment would be called 'rent'. When you make payments on land you own, you are not paying rent on the land because that is not the factual use of that word. What you are paying, if the the estate even charges you ( I don't charge for some folks ), you are paying a property tax. I call this a property tax because just as in real life, fees are often based on the size or value of the land ( some use prims which is size based). Perhaps this page will help you understand. The firs part is about SELLING land. You can only actually SELL mainland. The rest of the page is on RENTALS of mainland or private estates. ETA: You can sell a estate in full. The new owner will then be paying LL directly, same as the owner of mainland parcels. Edited March 18, 2022 by Rowan Amore 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, Benka Ravenhurst said: You can buy a land pass on a parcel, but it is my opinion that it is not really suitable for most rental situations. Apart from that, people do not pay 'rent' when they purchase a parcel because the word 'rent' is being inappropriately used in that transaction. When you rent, you do not make a claim on the land nor are you listed as an owner. You join a group and from there, the group owner sets the parameters of what you can or cannot do on the parcel. When you pay for that service, that payment would be called 'rent'. When you make payments on land you own, you are not paying rent on the land because that is not the factual use of that word. What you are paying, if the the estate even charges you ( I don't charge for some folks ), you are paying a property tax. I call this a property tax because just as in real life, the fee is based on the size or value of the land ( some use prims which is size based). ON YOUR REGION, IT SAYS THAT YOU "RENT." I'VE BEEN THERE. And given that "buying" land on a private region doesn't even come close to giving you permanent title to it, I can just as well argue that the "buy" function is only allowing you to "mimic" a lease. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benka Ravenhurst Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Perhaps this page will help you understand. The firs part is about SELLING land. You can only actually SELL mainland. The rest of the page is on RENTALS of mainland or private estates. Again, you are using a section that describes in detail a landlord / tenant relationship, and how an estate owners or managers are often used in those situations. Rentals (I.E. Group owned land) are common in regions owned by the same party. This section you post is designed to explain to the resident the nature of that relationship as well as how they function. When you say that can only sell mainland, you are again being misleading and nonfactual, as there are just as many land rentals ( group owned ) parcels on the mainland as there are land sales. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Benka Ravenhurst said: Again, you are using a section that describes in detail a landlord / tenant relationship, and how an estate owners or managers are often used in those situations. Rentals (I.E. Group owned land) are common in regions owned by the same party. This section you post is designed to explain to the resident the nature of that relationship as well as how they function. When you say that can only sell mainland, you are again being misleading and nonfactual, as there are just as many land rentals ( group owned ) parcels on the mainland as there are land sales. You misunderstand. Of course you can also rent out mainland that you own. I've already said that. You can only sell, as in transfer the deed to the land, on mainland. Or sell your private estate as a whole, transferring THAT deed. In both cases, the new owner pays directly to LL. Edited March 18, 2022 by Rowan Amore 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said: Perhaps this page will help you understand. The firs part is about SELLING land. You can only actually SELL mainland. The rest of the page is on RENTALS of mainland or private estates. This part of your linked thread is also relevant: When a Resident buys a parcel in a Private Region, he gains control over that parcel as though he owns it. This added feature eliminates the need for rental groups or complicated rights-granting rituals sometimes associated with rental properties. And Note: Parcels bought by Residents in Private Regions are still technically owned and paid for by the estate owner. As the owner of a Private Region, you still need to collect rental fees from your tenants. I don't own my little piece of the sky. Not in the slightest. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benka Ravenhurst Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: ON YOUR REGION, IT SAYS THAT YOU "RENT." I'VE BEEN THERE. And given that "buying" land on a private region doesn't even come close to giving you permanent title to it, I can just as well argue that the "buy" function is only allowing you to "mimic" a lease. You must be reading a covenant, and yes, there are rental situations that have and may exist that is described; and no, I cannot post any claim that land purchases are a permanent situation; that is a claim not even Linden Labs can make in these uncertain times. It is also to made clear that I may, at any time, terminate my service; this statement is something even Linden Labs makes to avoid certain liabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 44 minutes ago, Benka Ravenhurst said: I am not suggesting that you do not obtain your understanding of what you read and from hear, but when I am faced with nothing but claims that I am wrong as if speaking on authority with case closed and nothing else, I am being more convinced that what you say is simply that - gaslighting. Oh, I see. You are saying that the official Linden Lab Knowledge Base is not a Linden Lab official source. Contradict yourself much? Keep on digging! I'd loan you a shovel to help but I'm all out due to having had to help so many dig those holes over the past 18 years I've been in SL. Cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Let Benka win one Internet, and call it a day. We know our stuff and Benka knows it too, but likes to troll a bit. Edited March 18, 2022 by Sid Nagy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benka Ravenhurst Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: You misunderstand. Of course you can also rent out mainland that you own. I've already said that. You can only sell, as in transfer the deed to the land, on mainland. Not that I have observed, as land purchase or sales is identical in form and function on both mainland and in private estates, with private estates capable of granting greater power of domain to the buyer than even the mainland can grant. this is in regards to landscaping. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Benka Ravenhurst said: Not that I have observed, as land purchase or sales is identical in form and function on both mainland and in private estates, with private estates capable of granting greater power of domain to the buyer than even the mainland can grant. this is in regards to landscaping. So if someone "buys" the lots on your island you can stop paying Linden Lab for the island because someone else "owns" the "land"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benka Ravenhurst Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: Oh, I see. You are saying that the official Linden Lab Knowledge Base is not a Linden Lab official source. Contradict yourself much? Keep on digging! I'd loan you a shovel to help but I'm all out due to having had to help so many dig those holes over the past 18 years I've been in SL. I am not suggesting that. What I am saying too you is that what you find in the database has a target audience. Therefore, it needs to be presented in that fashion. Sure, you can cut and paste a segment to back an augment, but what is being used thus far was not written for that purpose, as with the rental section. From that, Rowan took that you can only SELL land on the mainland which is not factually true because that section was not written for the sake of my argument. Rowan also made the claim that the mainland had no covenant which again, as I pointed out, the mainland with no covenant displayed on the land tab in fact has one in the TOS, whilst there are some still with added restrictions. Edited March 18, 2022 by Benka Ravenhurst 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Benka Ravenhurst said: Not that I have observed, as land purchase or sales is identical in form and function on both mainland and in private estates, with private estates capable of granting greater power of domain to the buyer than even the mainland can grant. this is in regards to landscaping. The mechanics may be the same but the result is not. The only limits to landscaping on mainland are terraforming heights and textures but that only makes sense since it's contiguous. The rest is a free for all as long as it doesn't go against ToS or the land maturity rating. Everyone is subject to the ToS whether they own land or not. No one is falling for your straw man tactics. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benka Ravenhurst Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: So if someone "buys" the lots on your island you can stop paying Linden Lab for the island because someone else "owns" the "land"? Wrong, you are confusing estate owners with land owners, as I explained earlier, there must always be a governor of that region to fulfill the Pyramid of Accountability, an vital element of mitigation of liability of the grid. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Did you all know, that today is World Sleep Day? Why I'm I so awake then? Or am I just dreaming to read and post in a troll thread? And it is National Peanut month! Interesting huh? Are all Americans here aware of that? Was it Jimmy Carter's invention? Maybe we can discuss this with no end as well. Edited March 18, 2022 by Sid Nagy I'm good at posting bollocks too. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benka Ravenhurst Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: The mechanics may be the same but the result is not. The only limits to landscaping on mainland are terraforming heights and textures but that only makes sense since it's contiguous. The rest is a free for all as long as it doesn't go against ToS or the land maturity rating. Everyone is subject to the ToS whether they own land or not. No one is falling for your straw man tactics. Everyone is subject to the Terms of Service, this is correct. Where you go astray is that not everyone has equal accountability, some have greater. When you purchase land, either on the mainland or not, you have to press that button of acceptance. Pressing that button places you in a higher expectation of accountability than a noob just joining up. Land Owners can be blamed for what they permit, knowingly or not, to be built, displayed or done on their property. There is SOME accountability there, and as such you are expected to be mindful of this when you set your land permissions. As you descend down the Pyramid of Accountability, you will find Estate renters, estate managers, estate owners, all the way down to the very bottom, the widest and greatest form of accountability, Linden Labs itself; and don't think that the general public officials will not rise up to unplug that service, even if Linden Labs did all the right things to quell illegal activity. Doomsday for us all at that point, the greatest loss imaginable. Edited March 18, 2022 by Benka Ravenhurst 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, Benka Ravenhurst said: Pressing that button places you in a higher expectation of accountability than a noob just joining up. No, it doesn't. Pyramid of Accountability... LL...Mainland Owner or Private Estate Owner. They pay LL directly, then...Estate Renters...Parcel Renter Back to my RL analogy which I doubt you even read at this point. I've rented my land/home to you. I'm not held accountable for what you do since I don't live there. I've made some rules but I have no liability. If you have a meth lab in the basement, the police arrest you, not me. If one of your renters, has a meth lab in the shack you put up, the police arrest them, not you and not me. If your tenants don't pay you, LL doesn't care. If you don't pay the Estate Owner, LL doesn't care. If the Estate Owner doesn't pay LL, they care because THEY, the Estate Owner, are the only one accountable to LL, the owner of everything. The OWNER of the Private Estate you are renting is NOT accountable to LL for what happens on your estate. There are land companies with 1000s of Private estates. They are not accountable for what happens on each little parcel. Seriously, I think @Silent Mistwalkerand @Lindal Kiddare right. You're at the point now where even though you've been shown andhave had it explained in many ways, you are so stuck in what you THINK is correct, there's no way you'd admit you're wrong. And to that end, I'll just let you continue with your erroneous perception of land in SL. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Hey Brenka, I found a list of train wrecking incidents. Maybe that is of some interest too:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_rail_accidents Edited March 18, 2022 by Sid Nagy 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 48 minutes ago, Benka Ravenhurst said: I am not suggesting that. What I am saying too you is that what you find in the database has a target audience. Therefore, it needs to be presented in that fashion. Sure, you can cut and paste a segment to back an augment, but what is being used thus far was not written for that purpose, as with the rental section. From that, Rowan took that you can only SELL land on the mainland which is not factually true because that section was not written for the sake of my argument. Rowan also made the claim that the mainland had no covenant which again, as I pointed out, the mainland with no covenant displayed on the land tab in fact has one in the TOS, whilst there are some still with added restrictions. Clean the wax out of your ears so you can actually hear what is being said and then concentrate on the words so you are actually listening to them and then you might be able to understand that everything you have presented in this thread is nothing but a strawman argument. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 This forum is never short of hubris but, man, this one deserves some kind of special prize. 9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 37 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: Did you all know, that today is World Sleep Day? Why I'm I so awake then? Or am I just dreaming to read and post in a troll thread? And it is National Peanut month! Interesting huh? Are all Americans here aware of that? Was it Jimmy Carter's invention? Maybe we can discuss this with no end as well. Go back to sleep. You're dreaming you're awake. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 35 minutes ago, Benka Ravenhurst said: Linden Labs itself; and don't think that the general public officials will not rise up to unplug that service, even if Linden Labs did all the right things to quell illegal activity. Doomsday for us all at that point, the greatest loss imaginable. Greatest loss imaginable? Kids, I think we have an explanation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) If we've learned nothing at all from this trainwreck, we HAVE learned who NOT to rent from. 😁 Edited March 18, 2022 by Rowan Amore 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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