Benka Ravenhurst

I would like to offer $1,200.00 for a full grand-fathered region, I will cover transfer fees. My in-world name is Benka Ravenhurst.

Still looking. Feel free to send a notecard in-world.

I have a roadside mountain that needs reworking. Currently, I am using barriers to keep rocks from falling on the road; this is seen as ugly by some, robbing the potential beauty the mountain offered. You must have a website showing your professional work to be considered.

Speaking on behalf of everyone again I see; humm. Well, I do not know everyone; I do not know most of everyone; I do not know a quarter, one eight, one one millionth, one-hundred millionth or even one-thousandth of a millionth. I highly suspect you don't either.

The reason why it is still going is because I hit a sore spot; as such, there are many in my belief who desire to maintain the status quo of the mainland. Who they are I cannot say but we as estate owners are clearly being unfairly presented in a bad light.

I see; so you are here to 'educate' me on the subject of land ownership, even though you 'couldn't care less about land'. If someone couldn't care less about a subject, then I find it highly suspicious for them to claim that they can educate me on it. no, I reject you; I have at every turn proven your words faulty, misleading and inaccurate time and again. If anyone is truly a troll, it is those who come to pretend that they can educate on a subject, in a thread that they could not 'care less about.'

You're quite opinionated; as for the rest of your response, I have no clue how many people you know, or how many 'almost everyone' would be. As for as your claim that 'everyone' knows it but me, I contest that as a fact you neither can truly know or even demonstrate. Perhaps this authoritative tone of yours to squelch the validity of my arguments are really to serve the interests of the mainland; almost as if you are an agent of that very cause.

Be as it may, I still stand by my objection. I believe that private estate owners are being unfairly treated with the spreading of the idea that one can only own land on the mainland. This mainland receives much greater attention, and when folks think that they can only rent on private estates, makes them less attractive.

We're dealing with an illusion here; perhaps the most attractive one. Much of what you find in the database is written in the light of that illusion; that there exists parcels of land or the shores of the mainland. It is very easy for a mind of such desires to observe those words as it expects it to be. But yes, facts are important, but a provisional fact is not truth when it cannot be relied on as being true all the time. Renting or buying in-world is a fantasy because it is only truth in the context of that reality. My argument on renting is based primarily in the context of that reality; I understand that these things are unreal and that the company that provides this service holds all the cards of ownership. That aside, when dealing within the realm of this fantasy of second life, a resident can live in a rental situation or a land owner situation. Using the word 'rent' to describe all these relationships is a problem I take issue with. Going back and forth from reality and fantasy serves the OP in obfuscating the area of my objection. They don't want a forum section set just for buying parcels on private islands because they want to focus buyers on the mainland. If someone believes that they can only own land on the mainland, then that would only serve to enhance the attractiveness of the mainland. My point here is that in the in-world reality, you can own land on the mainland, you can own land on a private island or the whole island itself; in-world; or just rent them, it's up to you.

True; virtual land has no physical reality but the concept still comes with SOME degree of responsibility of its use. What people are really 'owning' in that light is not land but, well, accountability ( as though the land was real). Control is the reward for taking on that accountability; the greater the control, the greater the accountability (i.e. loss). This structure was encoded into the framework to serve as a firewall to mitigate Linden Labs's liability.

Looking at your profile pic, I must agree, it's time for tea <cheers>

That posting is meant to draw attention to the risks of buying land on private estates, it is not written to lay claim that regions are the property of the buyer; they are not; as per TOS agreement.

There is no evidence of that other than your opinion. On my front, Linden Labs does not recognize in-world content as being owned by anyone other than Linden Labs. So, the idea that they acknowledges ownership outside of that is technically and contractually untrue. What folks are really 'buying' are titles of accountability, not titles of possession. This would be rather insidious were it not for the rewards those titles can give.

Your key word here is 'technically', a word which is meant to draw attention to a critical fact. Technically, Linden Labs owns all content, including the land you 'buy' on the mainland; technically. What is further misleading of that post is that technically, even estate owners do not technically own the estate they own; technically. What is important to convey is a critical fact that buying land on a private estate comes with risk, as well as the understanding that estate owners are not agents of Linden Labs. Moreover, the statement, "As the owner of a Private Region, you still need to collect rental fees from your tenants." is not factual either. Owners of private regions do not need to collect anything from either his or her tenants or land owners; there is no need or necessity to do this as that statement suggests.

That is my point, you can rent an estate from an estate owner, or buy it and be the governor yourself. It is when the word 'rent' is being used in all estate dealings that leads me to post objections. Buying an estate from another owner does not transfer those lands into your name, you have to reclaim those lands personally. This is because an estate, as it is presented in Second Life, is a domain, one inclusive of lands that may or may not be lands the estate owner owns.

Landlords have a responsibility to monitor illegal activity going on in the homes they rent to others. If you think that a landlord cannot take the fall for happenings on their lands, then I bring to question your longevity of Second Life. I have had friends who got caught-up in these situations because they failed to convince that they were not involved with what their tenants were doing. It is sad to see that there are just some things that have such a knee-jerk reaction, that rather than treating the infection, they just chop off the whole limb. There were those that find themselves banned simply out of guilt of association; a few manged to get a reprieve which is nice to have them back; but still. At any rate, the Terms of Service is not the end all is all when it comes to legal depositions, you need to be more aware of just what can get you in hot water and protect yourself. These titles; these positions of authority are there for a reason. somebody has to be held accountable which is why a name of some kind MUST appear on who owns the land, region, group, objects, textures, etc. Anonymity invites liable behavior.

Everyone is subject to the Terms of Service, this is correct. Where you go astray is that not everyone has equal accountability, some have greater. When you purchase land, either on the mainland or not, you have to press that button of acceptance. Pressing that button places you in a higher expectation of accountability than a noob just joining up. Land Owners can be blamed for what they permit, knowingly or not, to be built, displayed or done on their property. There is SOME accountability there, and as such you are expected to be mindful of this when you set your land permissions. As you descend down the Pyramid of Accountability, you will find Estate renters, estate managers, estate owners, all the way down to the very bottom, the widest and greatest form of accountability, Linden Labs itself; and don't think that the general public officials will not rise up to unplug that service, even if Linden Labs did all the right things to quell illegal activity. Doomsday for us all at that point, the greatest loss imaginable.

Wrong, you are confusing estate owners with land owners, as I explained earlier, there must always be a governor of that region to fulfill the Pyramid of Accountability, an vital element of mitigation of liability of the grid.

I am not suggesting that. What I am saying too you is that what you find in the database has a target audience. Therefore, it needs to be presented in that fashion. Sure, you can cut and paste a segment to back an augment, but what is being used thus far was not written for that purpose, as with the rental section. From that, Rowan took that you can only SELL land on the mainland which is not factually true because that section was not written for the sake of my argument. Rowan also made the claim that the mainland had no covenant which again, as I pointed out, the mainland with no covenant displayed on the land tab in fact has one in the TOS, whilst there are some still with added restrictions.

Not that I have observed, as land purchase or sales is identical in form and function on both mainland and in private estates, with private estates capable of granting greater power of domain to the buyer than even the mainland can grant. this is in regards to landscaping.

You must be reading a covenant, and yes, there are rental situations that have and may exist that is described; and no, I cannot post any claim that land purchases are a permanent situation; that is a claim not even Linden Labs can make in these uncertain times. It is also to made clear that I may, at any time, terminate my service; this statement is something even Linden Labs makes to avoid certain liabilities.

Again, you are using a section that describes in detail a landlord / tenant relationship, and how an estate owners or managers are often used in those situations. Rentals (I.E. Group owned land) are common in regions owned by the same party. This section you post is designed to explain to the resident the nature of that relationship as well as how they function. When you say that can only sell mainland, you are again being misleading and nonfactual, as there are just as many land rentals ( group owned ) parcels on the mainland as there are land sales.

You can buy a land pass on a parcel, but it is my opinion that it is not really suitable for most rental situations. Apart from that, people do not pay 'rent' when they purchase a parcel because the word 'rent' is being inappropriately used in that transaction. When you rent, you do not make a claim on the land nor are you listed as an owner. You join a group and from there, the group owner sets the parameters of what you can or cannot do on the parcel. When you pay for that service, that payment would be called 'rent'. When you make payments on land you own, you are not paying rent on the land because that is not the factual use of that word. What you are paying, if the the estate even charges you ( I don't charge for some folks ), you are paying a property tax. I call this a property tax because just as in real life, fees are often based on the size or value of the land ( some use prims which is size based).

See, the way it works is that we have conversation on the subject rather than just making authoritative claims. Even Linden Lab employee's sometimes get things wrong and make mistakes. Thus, I just do not accept matter of fact claims of authority, albeit written or spoken.

I understand the sentiment.