If people want privacy so bad they put up ban lines...

[Cali Souther]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:47 PM, Mollymews said:

i have always thought of this more as a matter of modesty than privacy

parcel visibility was introduced when the olde Linden Homes were first built.  Stops people outside your starter home cam peeping you when getting changed

most people wore layer clothes in the olde days as well when out and about in public.  Then mesh bodies came and Linden eventually arrived at a technical fix for this - BoM - which also catered (in the same way layers did before mesh) for the modest people, of which there as many as there has always been

ps add. I do agree with you tho that the longer we stay and play on SL the more we become less concerned about things that can cause us discomfit in RL

True ... modesty craves privacy     I just don't worry about it like I used to.   That being said,  I don't think I have ever gone nude in SL ...   I wear an itty bitty teeney weeney bikini LOL... 

[Owl Dragonash]

privacy is an illusion especially in SL

 

B

[Landra Beerbaum]

i am also puzzled why these fearful people sometimes even own boats themselves, probably only as decoration. my opinion: away from waterways, away from roads, best inland without connection or even much better, on a standalone sim. furthermore, i would be more than okay if the same rules that exist on bellisseria would be extended to the mainland. that would mean to completely abolish the banneline function and require the use of correctly set orbs. btw: i always find it funny when you can zoom into a parcel despite bannlines and even funnier i find bannlines around a bunch of ancient prim junk

[Sparkle Bunny]

2 hours ago, Landra Beerbaum said:

  and even funnier i find bannlines around a bunch of ancient prim junk

The likelihood of being hit by banlines does seem inversely proportionate to the attractiveness of the parcel, it's true. I wonder how many of the offenders are still active, and how many logged off years ago, never to return? Which is another reason why we'll never see covenant changes to mainland: so much unofficially abandoned land full of prim litter which the Lindens would then have to decide how to deal with.

[Landra Beerbaum]

2 hours ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

The likelihood of being hit by banlines does seem inversely proportionate to the attractiveness of the parcel, it's true. I wonder how many of the offenders are still active, and how many logged off years ago, never to return? Which is another reason why we'll never see covenant changes to mainland: so much unofficially abandoned land full of prim litter which the Lindens would then have to decide how to deal with.

agree... i would often have great desire to unpack a huge garbage chute and send it across the mainland

[Malin Sabra]

Banlines should be banned. Use a security orb instead with 10 seconds. If you want it less than 10 move to an estate instead of mainland.

Skyboxes at ground level should be banned (I consider this a selfish action. You don't give 2 craps about your neighbors, especially when some take the time to landscape and deco)

[Alwin Alcott]

On 3/30/2022 at 10:58 PM, Sparkle Bunny said:

offenders 

there are no offenders because it's not against ány rule/TOS or guideline.
Callinge them offenders is a bigger offence than what they do.
Mainland without covenant is free land. Only the general rules apply there, whiners have no saying there.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

On 3/30/2022 at 3:58 PM, Sparkle Bunny said:

The likelihood of being hit by banlines does seem inversely proportionate to the attractiveness of the parcel, it's true. I wonder how many of the offenders are still active, and how many logged off years ago, never to return? Which is another reason why we'll never see covenant changes to mainland: so much unofficially abandoned land full of prim litter which the Lindens would then have to decide how to deal with.

If the parcels are still owned, even if the owners seldom/never log on, someone is paying for them. Which means they are not abandoned, unofficially or otherwise, and that the owners can have pretty much whatever they want on the parcels (subject to TOS), whether or not it meets your high standards of beauty. 

Some of us enjoy seeing the vintage prim stuff that you refer to as "litter"; the items are reminders of early SL days. It's called "history". 

[Aethelwine]

2 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

there are no offenders because it's not against ány rule/TOS or guideline.
Callinge them offenders is a bigger offence than what they do.
Mainland without covenant is free land. Only the general rules apply there, whiners have no saying there.

The word offender has a dual but related meaning. It can mean rule breaker or it can mean someone that causes offence or problems.

Calling someone that is causing problems an offender is a correct use of the word.

You can't deny someone the right to express their feelings of being offended by saying the person that is offending them will be offended.  

Edited April 1, 2022 by Aethelwine

[Sparkle Bunny]

1 hour ago, Aethelwine said:

Calling someone that is causing problems an offender is a correct use of the word.

I can see that it's a bit nuanced for someone who isn't a native speaker, though; they evidently think it means the same as 'criminal'.

[Sparkle Bunny]

 

Yes, those are banlines; yes, the bottom left corner is a Linden road; yes, the rock is a sculpty encroaching on Linden land; yes, the beauteous palm screen nowhere near the beach dates from 2006. And even with the walls and the trees and the fence and the banlines I can still cam behind to appreciate their magical midair 11 prim goldfish. Much vintage. So history.

 

 

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

 

Yes, those are banlines; yes, the bottom left corner is a Linden road; yes, the rock is a sculpty encroaching on Linden land; yes, the beauteous palm screen nowhere near the beach dates from 2006. And even with the walls and the trees and the fence and the banlines I can still cam behind to appreciate their magical midair 11 prim goldfish. Much vintage. So history.

 

 

I for one am jumping for joy at LL's continued support of such classic content, this truly is part of our shared history.

[Sparkle Bunny]

But why is this stuff worth preserving and regions like Coniston aren't?

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Why do you assume that LL is preserving this? If there are banlines, I assume some resident is paying for the land. Nice try at responding to my points, but ... not really. 😂

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

But why is this stuff worth preserving and regions like Coniston aren't?

Pay for Coniston and YOU can preserve it.  

 

[Alwin Alcott]

6 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

 It can mean rule breaker or it can mean someone that causes offence or problems.

but it's causing nothing of any meaning. Just annoying whiners who think they have something to say about the use of a parcel by it's owner.
As long the rules are as they are, the whole "should and want brigade" has to file jira;s and stop blaming people that do nothing wrong.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Alwin Alcott

[Aethelwine]

3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

but it's causing nothing of any meaning. Just annoying whiners who think they have something to say about the use of a parcel by it's owner.

You might find it annoying and think it won't achieve anything, but on threads like this there are queues of people wanting to express their frustration with the current system. They have every right to express themselves, they aren't breaking any rules, they no doubt feel better for getting it off their chests and getting sympathy and and empathy from others feeling the same way. That in itself is good enough reason to let people express themselves.

As to whether it will achieve anything, maybe you are right and it won't but it is not impossible. Bellisseria originally released without restrictions, but similar feedback caused Linden Lab to change their minds and change the covenant. Going back further once upon a time micro parcel ad farms were allowed, it was through people expressing their feelings and frustrations that they changed the rules.

You and others treat the TOS as some sort of inviolable right, it isn't it is clear all the way through it that it is subject to change depending upon what Linden Lab wants..    

[Aethelwine]

9 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

If the parcels are still owned, even if the owners seldom/never log on, someone is paying for them. Which means they are not abandoned, unofficially or otherwise, and that the owners can have pretty much whatever they want on the parcels (subject to TOS), whether or not it meets your high standards of beauty. 

Some of us enjoy seeing the vintage prim stuff that you refer to as "litter"; the items are reminders of early SL days. It's called "history". 

Well I certainly wouldn't advocate for Linden Lab to adopt an aesthetics police on mainland, but I see no harm with them tidying up chairs and stray prims and beds floating around over peoples parcels that are clearly oversights or neglect. In rare cases where that might be some sort of intended Dadaist statement.... then well I think the chances of that being the case slim enough to not be too concerned. I am pretty sure they occasionally do this anyway.

Where the person paying rent is absent they wouldn't know anyway to complain, so not sure why that is an objection. 

I suppose it would be polite for the Governance to leave the parcel owner a message. For example if they were to get involved with banlines they might conceivably send a  message like "Hello xxxx, as you have not been in world for 6 months and we have received reports of the banlines on your parcel causing grief to neighbours and travellers we have taken the liberty of turning them off for you. " But I don't really feel that message would be essential in circumstances like that.    

Edited April 2, 2022 by Aethelwine

[Coffee Pancake]

27 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

Well I certainly wouldn't advocate for Linden Lab to adopt an aesthetics police on mainland, but I see no harm with them tidying up chairs and stray prims and beds floating around over peoples parcels that are clearly oversights or neglect.

Mainland has always been, your land, your mess.

It's just slipped to the current state as over the years active people slowly moved out and the land was tetrised a dozen ways to hell and back. Places with hard parcels are about the best you can get and tend to be well occupied.

The only advantage mainland has now is that the landlord doesn't seem to care. If you want to pack 50 people into a tiny club on a 1024 parcel and max out a region without paying for a region, then you totally can. Private landlords can't afford to let that kind of abuse fly.

Also, don't forget that there are very old lifetime accounts who left SL years ago with land that's basically free forever.

[Aethelwine]

19 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Mainland has always been, your land, your mess.

It's just slipped to the current state as over the years active people slowly moved out and the land was tetrised a dozen ways to hell and back. Places with hard parcels are about the best you can get and tend to be well occupied.

The only advantage mainland has now is that the landlord doesn't seem to care. If you want to pack 50 people into a tiny club on a 1024 parcel and max out a region without paying for a region, then you totally can. Private landlords can't afford to let that kind of abuse fly.

Also, don't forget that there are very old lifetime accounts who left SL years ago with land that's basically free forever.

Normally 40 avatars I think or 44 including premium. Some of the linked private estates allow for 100. 

I know I have had to consider and start work on party barges we can use to accommodate people at after cruise parties on adjoining regions. 

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Aethelwine said:

You and others treat the TOS as some sort of inviolable right, it isn't it is clear all the way through it that it is subject to change depending upon what Linden Lab wants..    

i clearly don't say i see it at inviolable right....
 

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

As long the rules are as they are, the whole "should and want brigade" has to file jira;s and stop blaming people that do nothing wrong.

 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

8 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

Well I certainly wouldn't advocate for Linden Lab to adopt an aesthetics police on mainland, but I see no harm with them tidying up chairs and stray prims and beds floating around over peoples parcels that are clearly oversights or neglect. In rare cases where that might be some sort of intended Dadaist statement.... then well I think the chances of that being the case slim enough to not be too concerned. I am pretty sure they occasionally do this anyway.

Where the person paying rent is absent they wouldn't know anyway to complain, so not sure why that is an objection. 

I suppose it would be polite for the Governance to leave the parcel owner a message. For example if they were to get involved with banlines they might conceivably send a  message like "Hello xxxx, as you have not been in world for 6 months and we have received reports of the banlines on your parcel causing grief to neighbours and travellers we have taken the liberty of turning them off for you. " But I don't really feel that message would be essential in circumstances like that.    

What would be "polite" is to let people decorate their parcels as they please, and use the security they please, as long as it's within TOS. Just because some people don't like the decor or the security doesn't mean LL should swoop in and remove it. Go drive somewhere else if the area you are in offends you. If you think someone's stuff is ugly, derender it and move along. Stop trying to force people who PAY for their parcels to use them as YOU want them to.

The people saying "those who use security should be hidden away deep in the landlocked middle of Mainland or off on a private estate" are wrong. It's the ones who are insisting everything be done to satisfy their personal standards of perfection that should relocate to private estates, where they might find areas that are good enough for their highly evolved senses of what is beautiful and where the burden of dealing with Mainland riffraff won't impede their whizzing across lawns in their vehicles. 

I'm not even sure why we are discussing the age and alleged non-beauty of objects people have on their parcels in a thread that was started to whine about ban lines. I do think all that needs to be said (and a lot that does not) on that topic has already been shared, so peace out. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Sylvia Tamalyn

[Sparkle Bunny]

11 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

I see no harm with them tidying up chairs and stray prims and beds floating around over peoples parcels that are clearly oversights or neglect.

I don't think they have the time or the inclination. I've seen floating sky furniture in Bellisseria.

[Aethelwine]

7 hours ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

I don't think they have the time or the inclination. I've seen floating sky furniture in Bellisseria.

I don't think it is treated as a high priority, but I have lived next to a parcel like that and it did get tidied up and the owner remains as absent as ever. I presume governance in an idle moment tidied it up

[Setsuki Takeda]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:17 AM, Landra Beerbaum said:

...and even funnier i find bannlines around a bunch of ancient prim junk

Yeah, when I cam in to see what was so important after getting knocked out of my vehicle, I usually decide their put up ban lines out of sheer embarrassment XD

 

On 4/1/2022 at 7:27 PM, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Why do you assume that LL is preserving this? If there are banlines, I assume some resident is paying for the land. Nice try at responding to my points, but ... not really. 😂

This:

On 4/1/2022 at 11:34 PM, Coffee Pancake said:

Also, don't forget that there are very old lifetime accounts who left SL years ago with land that's basically free forever.

I'm sure quite a few of those obviously abandoned and banlined parcels are lifetime accounts, though I mean people have made comments about not knowing they had a Netflix account after paying for it for years, so I guess not everyone watches their balance and says "Where is this money disappearing to?"