LittleMe Jewell Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 23 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: 34 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: She just likes to be contrary -- nothing really to do with white-knighting. For as long as I've known Bree, which is as long as I've been on the forums, including the old RA, I've really rather liked her. She's oddball, and comes at things from a weird perspective that is sometimes interesting, and often really amusing. But I'm with Maddy on this one. I'm not sure why, but the past month or so has seen her become a bit trollish and a little mean-spirited in the threads she's started. And it's upsetting, actually. Like Maddy, I want the Old Bree back, please. Oh I interpreted Rowan's comment to be about someone else - not Bree. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 23 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: For as long as I've known Bree, which is as long as I've been on the forums, including the old RA, I've really rather liked her. She's oddball, and comes at things from a weird perspective that is sometimes interesting, and often really amusing. But I'm with Maddy on this one. I'm not sure why, but the past month or so has seen her become a bit trollish and a little mean-spirited in the threads she's started. And it's upsetting, actually. Like Maddy, I want the Old Bree back, please. @LittleMe Jewell, I think, in quoting me, wasn't referring to the OP but the only person seeming to think this is a valid question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Oh I interpreted Rowan's comment to be about someone else - not Bree. 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: @LittleMe Jewell, I think, in quoting me, wasn't referring to the OP but the only person seeming to think this is a valid question. Yes, you're both right! Sorry, I'm not sure how I misread that!! Duh! My comments about Bree stand, though. ETA: Should I add this to the "most embarrassing moments" thread? 😏 Edited February 16, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 1:17 PM, Bree Giffen said: There is this particular horizontal activity in SL which residents can choose to partake, refrain from, or perhaps seek but are denied. Those who choose do not to participate would be called, or call themselves, chaste, virgins, aces, asexual, or even incels. How do you view others who have this particular status within SL? I am pretty sure I am not the only one who suspects some people might not be having SLex because they are already having plenty of RL sex. I guess they might call themselves “satisfied”. 12 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: My issue isn't so much with the subject as with the particular perspective and tone employed. I think a broader question about participation in expressions of sexuality in SL could be interesting, although probably also pointless, as there are likely to be as many different answers as there are people responding. But Bree starts out by stigmatizing those who do not engage in sex here by excluding them. She doesn't ask why someone like myself doesn't have sex -- she asks everyone else who does what they think of "me" and others like me: The perspective here is clear: "normal" people who have sex ("you") are being asked to describe their attitude towards those ("others") who do not. And those others are all grouped together into a miscellaneous and slightly "odd" grab bag of perspectives, most of which carry somewhat negative connotations. And why would Bree deliberately and ostentatiously strike out "choose"? To suggest that it is not a "choice," but rather that we're all too sad and pathetic to "get any"? The overall perspective is clear: "Hey, normal people like me! Whaddya think about those slightly weird and/or pathetic people who don't enjoy sex here?" Add to that her suggestion that we would be "better suited" to Horizons, because of course we must all be ANTI-sex, and don't want to engage in a virtual world where others are enjoying it, and you have an instance of pretty obnoxious judgments being levelled against those who are "different" because they don't do sex: When you are stigmatizing and generalizing about the behaviour that you are asking about from the outset, you are also excluding and being condescending. Ask the broader question if you want. But don't commence from the position that "we" should judge "others" who are not like "us." I don't know Bree other than some limited postings on the forum so I stuck with the black text of the original post and ignored the coloring of any negative perceptions, biases or judgements of what she might have meant. I guess that is why I didn't see any stigmatizing and in fact, I have no knowledge of whether she herself is included as one of those listed as chaste, virgins, aces, asexual, or incels. If she sees herself as one, then the post was nothing more then someone looking to see how others who are sexually active, see her and those like her. Do you know for a fact if she is active or are you assuming? Edited February 17, 2022 by Arielle Popstar grammar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, Arielle Popstar said: Do you know for a fact if she is active or are you assuming? My analysis has nothing to do with her own level of sexual activity. I was pointing out the tendency of the language she was using. It's rather odd language to use if she does identify with the "others" who don't have sex, but regardless of what she may or may not be doing in SL, her language excludes and stigmatizes. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said: She just likes to be contrary -- nothing really to do with white-knighting. Some just make it so easy to be contrary as I wouldn't want to jump on the same pile on when I see so much misunderstanding of people's posts. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said: My analysis has nothing to do with her own level of sexual activity. I was pointing out the tendency of the language she was using. It's rather odd language to use if she does identify with the "others" who don't have sex, but regardless of what she may or may not be doing in SL, her language excludes and stigmatizes. I found nothing odd about the post but then I often need to compensate for people's language as my own is not some sort of standard that others are needing to measure up to. So I try to leave any negative assumptions behind and assume a good intent to the degree possible. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 25 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Some just make it so easy to be contrary as I wouldn't want to jump on the same pile on when I see so much misunderstanding of people's posts. What pile on? There's no gang of people here. A bunch of individuals all posting their opinions is what we have here. There is no pile on. 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 25 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: So I try to leave any negative assumptions behind and assume a good intent to the degree possible. Very generous of you! So do I! And I very much hope, because I like her, that Bree pops in again to explain what those "good intentions" might be, and corrects her language to mitigate the insulting condescension that she is currently communicating. Because "good intent" is certainly not very evident in what she's communicated to this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: What pile on? There's no gang of people here. A bunch of individuals all posting their opinions is what we have here. There is no pile on. 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Very generous of you! So do I! And I very much hope, because I like her, that Bree pops in again to explain what those "good intentions" might be, and corrects her language to mitigate the insulting condescension that she is currently communicating. Because "good intent" is certainly not very evident in what she's communicated to this point. You're both entitled to your viewpoints and opinions but please realize that is what they are. I for one do not agree with either of you on how you see it. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: You're both entitled to your viewpoints and opinions but please realize that is what they are. I for one do not agree with either of you on how you see it. I'm not sure why you should feel it necessary to remind us these are "opinions." These are self-evidently "our opinions." If they were someone else's, I'd have specified whose. It is equally self-evident that you are of a different opinion. And that is, of course, something to which you are entitled. But none of this means that all opinions are equally valid: that depends on the degree to which one backs it up with evidence and reasoning. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Someone wanted a return of the white knight. They got it. People really should be careful what they wish for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I'm not sure why you should feel it necessary to remind us these are "opinions." These are self-evidently "our opinions." If they were someone else's, I'd have specified whose. It is equally self-evident that you are of a different opinion. And that is, of course, something to which you are entitled. But none of this means that all opinions are equally valid: that depends on the degree to which one backs it up with evidence and reasoning. What it means Scylla is that I don't have a desire to engage on this any further. I'm not going to be able to prove to your liking that you put an unwarranted negative spin on the OP and you are not going to be able to prove that it was correct to do so. Let's leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajay McDowwll Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: What it means Scylla is that I don't have a desire to engage on this any further. I'm not going to be able to prove to your liking that you put an unwarranted negative spin on the OP and you are not going to be able to prove that it was correct to do so. Let's leave it at that. I think when the majority of people are getting the same read on the situation, that it does bear consideration. The words used to describe those who don't engage in adult activities in SL were overwhelmingly pejorative. It's not an unreasonable takeaway, from both that and the statement that they'd be better off in Roblox or wheverever, that failure to hop on adult-themed poseballs in SL is somehow a problem. It's not. 16 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 8 hours ago, Bree Giffen said: I could have done that but then my thread would have looked like every other thread. Also, I was thinking of places like Meta Horizons, Roblox and every other world where sex is suppressed by design. SL is one of the few where it's out in the open and was just wondering why some people don't partake in it. They'd feel right at home in Horizons I suppose. SL is also huge, people have a lot of creative freedom here and I find there is a ton to explore. I know some people like to have sex, and one of the features for them is romantic relations with others, but I just like to explore, build, listen to music, driving, boating, crashing sometimes, scripting horribly, and mostly just appreciating everything people have created. I enjoy being around people, even when it is from a healthy distance, and having the occasional short conversation in world. I don't really think of SL as a sex game, I mostly see it as a very complex program where I can choose to do a variety of things, using the same avatar. It doesn't bother me that people have sex in SL, I have no ethical dilemma over it, I don't look down at it or pretend I have some moral authority over them.. if anything I'm a bit of a nihilist. I do run my own regions in opensim, and spend a lot of time there too, but it gets lonely. I like seeing other people in the world with me, even if we are not talking. I like exploring what they have created, and bringing my own creativity in a world to hopefully be enjoyed by others. Meta and Roblox don't impress me.. I do play MMORPGs on the occasion, but mostly stick with single player games. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ajay McDowwll said: I think when the majority of people are getting the same read on the situation, that it does bear consideration. The words used to describe those who don't engage in adult activities in SL were overwhelmingly pejorative. It's not an unreasonable takeaway, from both that and the statement that they'd be better off in Roblox or wheverever, that failure to hop on adult-themed poseballs in SL is somehow a problem. It's not. It would be difficult to get an idea of the majority since to me it was directed at those who do engage in slex and asking how they view those who do not. The majority of reactions and comments however were by those who do not engage in slex. It would be like a poll geared to Conservatives on how they view Liberals where the Liberals would then comment on how valid of a poll they think it is. I'm sure you realize that no matter how the poll was put, the majority of Liberals would be highly critical of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: It would be difficult to get an idea of the majority since to me it was directed at those who do engage in slex and asking how they view those who do not. The majority of reactions and comments however were by those who do not engage in slex. It would be like a poll geared to Conservatives on how they view Liberals where the Liberals would then comment on how valid of a poll they think it is. I'm sure you realize that no matter how the poll was put, the majority of Liberals would be highly critical of it. So, by your own admission, the thread was really addressed just to those who DO have sex in SL? And the opinions of those who don't aren't really "valid" or don't "count" because they weren't being solicited in the first place? Nothing exclusionary about that at all, is there, Arielle? Edited February 17, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra Typo typo typo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: So, by your own admission, the thread was really addressed just to those who DO have sex in SL? And the opinions of those who don't aren't really "valid" or don't "count" because they weren't be solicited in the first place? Nothing exclusionary about that at all, is there, Arielle? Yes, I think you are right Scylla that it was exclusionary in that sense. However, since it was Bree's post, does she not have a right to ask those about their views? If you want to hear the opinions of those who do not engage in slex and their viewpoints, might I suggest you start a thread on that? Edited February 17, 2022 by Arielle Popstar Pronouns! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Yes, I think you are right Scylla that it was exclusionary in that sense. However, since it was Bree's post, does he not have a right to ask those about their views? If you want to hear the opinions of those who do not engage in slex and their viewpoints, might I suggest you start a thread on that? Or, why not a thread on "What Do You Think about Furries? (No Furries Please!)" Or . . . "White People, How Do You Feel about Blacks? (White People Only, Please!)" 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Or, why not a thread on "What Do You Think about Furries? (No Furries Please!)" Or . . . "White People, How Do You Feel about Blacks? (White People Only, Please!)" Well at least it would be honest, though in a politically correct world a no-no. But having said that.... How about...."Republicans, how do you feel about Liberals? (Republicans only please!)" Would it make sense to get the opinions from Liberals on how they feel about Liberals if one is trying to plan out an election campaign? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: Good question actually. I read enough profiles inworld wherein some Residents come across so aggressive about their no-sex status that I've been tempted (but have been too polite to actually ask), how they are enjoying their white knuckled chastity. Others seem much more calm about it, so I accept it and move on to the next after finishing what they have to say in their profile. Could it be that people who are in SL for other reasons have grown tired of unwanted propositioning? Is it your opinion that sexual harassment is preferable to "aggressive" attempts to curtail it? 5 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: I've wondered the same at times especially in regards to Opensim where there is much of what S/L has in addition to cheap or free land and content. The lack for Opensim however is that there is not the sex clubs and general erotica content like there is here but for those who aren't into the sexualized bits, I would have thought they might be more comfortable over there for that reason instead of putting up with and complaining about it here. Opensim hasn't got people, or their tremendous creative output. Do you think people who are not interested in sex aren't interested in other people? 5 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: For the reasons I stated above, I also wonder about the questions Bree asked and I will point out that the asking is not a judgement. From the OP: "Those who choose do not to participate would be called, or call themselves, chaste, virgins, aces, asexual, or even incels. How do you view others who have this particular status within SL?" Bree did not ask the question until after labeling people. That labeling IS a judgement. Bree asked us about how we view those "others", which both makes an unwarranted presumption about forumites and attempts to exclude those she's labeled. Edited February 17, 2022 by Madelaine McMasters 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PermaRuthed Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 58 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: Someone wanted a return of the white knight. They got it. People really should be careful what they wish for. I really miss Luna. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 29 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: It would be difficult to get an idea of the majority since to me it was directed at those who do engage in slex and asking how they view those who do not. The majority of reactions and comments however were by those who do not engage in slex. It would be like a poll geared to Conservatives on how they view Liberals where the Liberals would then comment on how valid of a poll they think it is. I'm sure you realize that no matter how the poll was put, the majority of Liberals would be highly critical of it. I've scanned the thread and I don't see how one can draw the conclusion that the majority of the comments here are from people who do not engage in slex. The majority of the comments here are from people who don't approve of Bree's OP. 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said: I found nothing odd about the post but then I often need to compensate for people's language as my own is not some sort of standard that others are needing to measure up to. So I try to leave any negative assumptions behind and assume a good intent to the degree possible. 32 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: It would be difficult to get an idea of the majority since to me it was directed at those who do engage in slex and asking how they view those who do not. The majority of reactions and comments however were by those who do not engage in slex. How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion? When I read the black text of the conversation, it appeared that the majority of the comments were from people who didn't give enough information to determine whether they did or didn't engage. Did you make an assumption? 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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