How to stop people from rezzing encroachment ?

[mjyothis]

In the case of private regions, is there anyway to stop people from rezzing objects that enroach other parcels at the first place?

I have enabled return of enroachments in region settings, but then it has become a common trend for those renting 1/4 region skyplatforms (Which is at a corner of the region) to rezz surroundings/mega prims that enroaches other parcels. Even if I have written it almost everywhere possible to stay within the skyplatform there are at least few who just ignore it and think its ok to rezz it as long as none find it. If I go and tell them to remove things that overlap other parcels, they come back telling 'other land owners allow it' or that 'it doesn't bother anyone due to your placement and its in sky' etc.

Meanwhile if someone decides to return it because it was covering their land, these covenant breakers will come back to me again telling 'I should have taken it, I want my money back', when I would be having no clue what happened! I think as it shows 'returned by owner' they believe its me who returned it.

It has become a real headache as people think its alright to break the covenant as long as no one see it and I can understand why many doesn't care what renters do as its not easy job to keep watching whats going on when you have quite a lot of regions. This is my full time work and I am not a big one, so I get time to go and check things once in a while and make sure things are clean and in order. I do see the good renters appreciate it as they could live peacefully in their places, so I have no plan to become the one who allow using an excess from what they have rented as it would injustice to the one who spent all that money to get the size they need and abide the rules.

If there is any setting that would stop people from doing it please let me know.

('Object entry' certainly isnt good enough for it, I had tried that)

[So Whimsy]

Did you tick the deny 'object entry' option in the land tab?

[mjyothis]

Yes, it didn't work as I mentioned already. As most of these full sim surroundings (made of mega prim) has their root prim in the center and the object entry seems to stop only object's root prim from entering the parcel, there is no way to stop you from covering the whole region. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by mjyothis

[Alwin Alcott]

51 minutes ago, mjyothis said:

In the case of private regions, is there anyway to stop people from rezzing objects that enroach other parcels at the first place?

I have enabled return of enroachments in region settings, but then it has become a common trend for those renting 1/4 region skyplatforms (Which is at a corner of the region) to rezz surroundings/mega prims that enroaches other parcels. Even if I have written it almost everywhere possible to stay within the skyplatform there are at least few who just ignore it and think its ok to rezz it as long as none find it. If I go and tell them to remove things that overlap other parcels, they come back telling 'other land owners allow it' or that 'it doesn't bother anyone due to your placement and its in sky' etc.

Meanwhile if someone decides to return it because it was covering their land, these covenant breakers will come back to me again telling 'I should have taken it, I want my money back', when I would be having no clue what happened! I think as it shows 'returned by owner' they believe its me who returned it.

It has become a real headache as people think its alright to break the covenant as long as no one see it and I can understand why many doesn't care what renters do as its not easy job to keep watching whats going on when you have quite a lot of regions. This is my full time work and I am not a big one, so I get time to go and check things once in a while and make sure things are clean and in order. I do see the good renters appreciate it as they could live peacefully in their places, so I have no plan to become the one who allow using an excess from what they have rented as it would injustice to the one who spent all that money to get the size they need and abide the rules.

If there is any setting that would stop people from doing it please let me know.

('Object entry' certainly isnt good enough for it, I had tried that)

if people willingly break the covenant , they agreed to with renting...., you'r allowed ... better... you háve to act on it. No discussion, no money back. Surround objects are only meant for filling the void side, never at the landside. If they want that, they should rent a full region or homestead.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Alwin Alcott

[Aethelwine]

Why are you trying to stop them?

Everywhere I have lived me and the neighbours make the most of their parcels using sky domes or similar. So long as they aren't overlapping with the neighbours builds and they are reasonably out of sight what harm are they doing? They won't use prim allowance of the neighbouring parcel so long as root prim remains centred on their parcel.

Your rule seems to me to be needlessly making work for yourself, to enforce a rule that is an unnecessary detriment to your renters enjoyment of their rental.  

[Rowan Amore]

15 hours ago, mjyothis said:

to rezz surroundings/mega prims that enroaches other parcels

 

2 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

Why are you trying to stop them?

Everywhere I have lived me and the neighbours make the most of their parcels using sky domes or similar. So long as they aren't overlapping with the neighbours builds and they are reasonably out of sight what harm are they doing? They won't use prim allowance of the neighbouring parcel so long as root prim remains centred on their parcel.

Your rule seems to me to be needlessly making work for yourself, to enforce a rule that is an unnecessary detriment to your renters enjoyment of their rental.  

It's bad manners to rez items that don't fit entirely on your own rented parcel?

Edited September 27, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Mollymews]

17 hours ago, mjyothis said:

In the case of private regions, is there anyway to stop people from rezzing objects that enroach other parcels at the first place?

not out-of-the-box no

the simplest automated way is a bot with appropriate estate powers. Parcel bans don't apply to appropriately-enabled bots and the bot can return anything. Bot pops in on a regular schedule, checks the region for over-sized objects and returns them

if tenant complains then have the wrong tenant for your estate

[Aethelwine]

6 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

 

It's bad manners to rez items that don't fit entirely on your own rented parcel?

I can't think why it would be, if it causes no one else any problems.

In a way it is neighbourly because it signals to your neighbours they can too and then everyone is getting a better looking skybox experience than they otherwise would.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Aethelwine

[Qie Niangao]

15 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's bad manners to rez items that don't fit entirely on your own rented parcel?

It's up to the Estate owner what they want happening on their regions, but personally I'd never discourage a tenant from using their prims effectively, even if they encroach, as long as they aren't causing any trouble for other tenants. Just seems bad business practice to be fussy about such things. On the other hand, I can see that permitting mutual encroachment requires cooperation and understanding among renters, and that's gonna be more difficult for leases with higher turnover rates.

Anyway, in this case the OP doesn't want to deal with such encroachment, and as Estate owner, what they say in the covenant goes.

Now, in the interest of enforcement, an script idea I've not tested at all: Imagine there's a periodic llCastRay() along the parcel boundaries from ground to 4096m altitude; it could gradually walk the boundaries to stay well under the raycasting throttle (and be mindful of the region's physics lag because llCastRay is implemented in Havok). In theory, llReturnObjectsByID() —also tightly throttled—could return anything found by the raycast, right?

If it's this easy though, surely somebody is doing it already, right?

It could miss some objects (e.g., any that have linked "stuff" on either side of the parcel border but no link on the border itself), but could it also have false positives? If there's any risk of that, the best a script could do would be to report a list of potential encroachments as a possible aid to manual enforcement. (Or maybe there'd be so many misses that the whole idea would be impractical. I bet somebody knows.)

[LittleMe Jewell]

The only area that I've generally given leniency on is trees.  In RL, trees often grow such that some of the branches end up over the neighbor's yard.  As long as they aren't interfering with anything, I don't see it as an issue. 

However, I don't typically want other stuff hanging over my yard from a neighbor's place.

[mjyothis]

There are many houses these days which shows 1 or 2m difference from what is stated on marketplace or information and I have had tenants rezzing those. I used to help them overlap the parcels that is owned by the group rather than those owned by other tenants if it is such a small difference. These people are putting things that is like 20-128m bigger than their skyplatform, even a 512sqm is only as big as 32x16m.

For those who think I am being too strict, the image is of the first case I mentioned, the highlighted object is the skyplatform I had put, they wanted to make it invisible as its easier for them to put down terrain, I was happy to do that and I did tell them its there so you know your boundaries. It is a 128x128m sized skyplatform on a quarter region sized parcel, if you compare the size of the parcel with the projection you could see what I mean. The second one had rezzed a full sim surrounding from Landscapes Unlimited over a 1/4 region skyplatform, I didn't take a picture as anyone who has seen those will know the extend of abuse.

I always try to think what I would feel when I see things like this if I am the one who is paying for that land. If I am going to buy a parcel I would never get one which has a mega prim enroaching my sky, and I always used to check sky to see how the place is. I have had parcels in mainland (and still has) and in one place I had a person who was doing the same, she would put the root prim on her land and link all the trees, rocks, plants etc to that, and push like 10m into other parcels. I returned it as I was clearing up the land after I bought it as I had to put down my building and obviously she didn't like it and a series of issues followed, I finally had to sell that parcel just because of her. I had decided I would never let that happen to anyone else and as far as I know my good renters like my places as they know I will take care of such issues. If that means I won't get people who want to take advantage, its alright, I would rather have 2 people to whom I can provide good quality places than 10 who want to make my places look like mainland.

I certainly don't care what they do if they have talked about it to their neighbours, I often encourage people to do that, work with their neighbours to plan terraforming, landscape etc. In this case they hadn't, one even found that they had rezzed things that uses his/her land impact after I taught them how to check it. Also this is just skyplatform rental, not even land, so they pay according to their prim usage, so that was also cheating in one way as they had rezzed it on land owned by renters, so prim count wont get counted as its not under my ownership and the owner of land wasn't informed.

Thanks a lot @Qie Niangao for that, I was looking for something of that sort. I often give time to correct it, I return only if the renter isn't responding or hasn't come online since few days, so just a reporting would be enough.

I was busy after I posted this, that's why it took so long to reply, thank you everyone for your inputs.

PS: Of the two cases I mentioned, the first one's renter made the one (he did the landscaping for her) who was coming and fighting with me fix it as I gave them the final warning (first warning was shortly after they started it and final warning was after 2 months, I suppose that's more than enough time). In the second case I was able to make him understand I wasn't the one who returned and seems to have stopped doing it.

Edited September 28, 2021 by mjyothis

[Mollymews]

@mjyothis

off-parcel objects can work for tenants provided that the objects don't encroach the other tenants parcels. Tenants can place off-parcel objects that extend into the void within their quandrant. Example diagram:

 

[mjyothis]

19 hours ago, Mollymews said:

off-parcel objects can work for tenants provided that the objects don't encroach the other tenants parcels. Tenants can place off-parcel objects that extend into the void within their quandrant. Example diagram:

 

As I told I am ok with them overlapping over my parcels or over the region ends (off sim as you tell) it doesnt bother anyone. They simply didnt want to move it even a bit telling they would have to do redo the landscaping, while I had told them before they started landscaping, as soon as they placed their megaprim cylinder. Its not like they don't know how off-sim works and where it won't overlap other parcels, they are 14 years old and seems to see themselves as professional landscaper/builder.

Edited September 29, 2021 by mjyothis

[BJoyful]

I rely on a parcel boundary tracer (product I purchased on MP) which outlines the parcel by sitting on it and gradually moving up about 500 m at a time until I see all the sky objects and touch the box and choose Temp Rez to check objects are rezzed responsibly.  I have a standard Notecard which is something like this:

Your object named: object name  is outside your parcel boundaries.  Kindly move this object to respect parcel boundaries.  I will return in: a week. If the object is not moved it will be returned to your Inventory.  Each tenant has the Ability to Return Objects which encroach onto their parcel.  Kindly decorate responsibly so everyone can enjoy this property and Enjoy SL ❤️
 

I’ve not had any complaints from tenants on Mainland.  I have been very lucky!

Edited September 29, 2021 by BJoyful
Clarified use of parcel boundary tracer

[JeanKulasec]

At the price where the land is, I prefer a neighbor who doesn't quite respect the limit and will build magnificent things and landscap his land rather than a bad neighbor who respects the limits and will build ugly things, or put cliffs which hides all view. I have seen a lot of land lose all its interest and value, for example a beach by a Linden sea because the neighbor betone the whole landscape with gigantic fgalaises or false starry sky photo screens. .. There are unfortunately in SL the same idiots as in the real world.

 

 

[Da5id Weatherwax]

This  is just entitled Bravo Sierra on the part of the folks griping. The covenant says "don't encroach", the estate settings say "encroachments can be returned". "landscape" over somebody else's boundaries and you should expect your landscaping to be in your lost&found folder sooner rather than later. Whatever happened to the old technique of mapping out your parcel at ground level with a megaprim then moving it to your skyboxes height and just building so everything is sitting on that megaprim and not overhanging its edges. Then you delete the megaprim once your build is complete and it is no longer required for reference.

The old "parcel megaprims pack" is still out there, people, and covers all the possible sizes a rectangular parcel can be in 4m increments of each dimension. Mark your bounds at ground level with "show parcel boundaries" enabled, move the markers to your build height and build within those marks. There is no excuse for encroachment and if you do it you should EXPECT to get your intruding build returned. It's been that way since the dawn of the grid and the only way it's changed is that it can now simply be returned instead of it getting you an AR, after which the Lindens would return it and slap your wrist into the bargain.

[NaomiLocket]

On 10/7/2021 at 8:48 AM, Da5id Weatherwax said:

The old "parcel megaprims pack" is still out there, people, and covers all the possible [...]

Regular supported prims have been increased to a 64m dimension for ages now, you don't need megaprims for any temporary planning work.