Is it ok non premium account to post in the forum?

[Rowan Amore]

11 minutes ago, Drakeo said:

I disagree. Because by the time you can enforce it  a new basic account that is made just to troll

then the damage is done.  Take away there ability to login to a parcel that is part of the premium account 

is severe.

So I disagree with how this forum test bed has been run.

I feel strongly that this is happening often.

Way to often. I believe it devalues the knowledge base.

I search things for secondlife it leads me to a topic and I get to see rude behavior.

 This seems to be the norm. 

The people that replied in this thread most were very gracious or they was blocked

from the beginning.

Disagree with what?!?!?!  No one here believes that only premium accounts should have access to the forums.  No one.  Only you.  It's been said by everyone.  From the beginning of this inane thread.  Every single person who responded to this thread is a long time forum user, premium or not.  It doesn't matter.  The premium members don't even agree with you, ffs.

The knowledge base is directly from LL.  If you're using the user based Wiki, then stop it.  There is an official wiki and a non official wiki and the Knowledge base.

If anyone was or is rude in this thread, it's because you are failing to understand what countless people are telling you then replying with nonsense.  

You're free to disagree with how LL chooses to run the forums.  You've already made that clear.  What exactly are you doing now?

[Ceka Cianci]

4 minutes ago, Drakeo said:

I disagree. Because by the time you can enforce it  a new basic account that is made just to troll

then the damage is done.  Take away there ability to login to a parcel that is part of the premium account 

is severe.

So I disagree with how this forum test bed has been run.

I feel strongly that this is happening often.

Way to often. I believe it devalues the knowledge base.

I search things for secondlife it leads me to a topic and I get to see rude behavior.

 This seems to be norm. 

The people that replied in this thread most were very gracious or they was blocked

from the beginning.

The tiny amount of basic accounts that may do that, are extremely outweighed by the huge amount of basic accounts that are a beneficial necessity to this community..

People looking for help usually find it very quickly from those that have the answers.. This is from my experience of seeing it over and over  through the years with how quickly people are willing to help someone with answers..

It's a joint effort of both basic and premium accounts making that happen..

I strongly disagree with getting rid of basic accounts in the forum.. It would do way more harm..

People coming to the forums for help, well they might just be sitting for days if someone comes a long at all to answer..

You'd be cutting out a huge amount of helpful experience that the forums have right now..

I'm not for getting rid of them, one bit.. My own experience in the years in the forums screams of that being a terrible damaging move to the community..

 

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

54 minutes ago, Drakeo said:

I disagree.

Yes, we know that. 

However, NOBODY else agrees with you.

You can keep saying the same thing over and over, but it will make no difference -- not with anyone here and not with LL.  They would never be so stupid as to restrict the forums to only Premium accounts.

 

[Alwin Alcott]

6 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Perhaps we should all log in with our non-premium alts and see if you can tell who is and who isn't. 

but but but... my alt IS premium, i'm not!

..and if being premium makes me a better person i might try it again for a while... but to be honest, i got most of my warnings , by a real Linden, during my premium time... oh perhaps was that to stimulate me to be even better...

Edited July 12, 2021 by Alwin Alcott

[Jaylinbridges]

The saddest thing to me is that a real Linden thinks the premise of this thread by the OP is worth a discussion.  

[Ted McGregor]

49 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

The saddest thing to me is that a real Linden thinks the premise of this thread by the OP is worth a discussion.  

I take that moderation attempt more as Harley Linden' personal slip by cultural influence ( "Shouldn't capitalism grant rights and services to paying members only ?") than a projection of company policy.

I wouldn't worry too much over it. Enough points are known and have been expressed why non-premiums contribute financially as  much ( if not more ) as premiums do. Let's say that at least they are able to do so if needed which will not change. Not even on OP's request.

Of course the answer to OP's question remains a sound 'yes' ... even from LL's perspective.

Edited July 12, 2021 by TDD123
Engrish

[Skell Dagger]

There have been innumerable valuable contributions to this forum by those who do not have premium accounts. Likewise, there has been plenty of valueless drivel posted on the forum by some who have premium accounts.

The value of one's contribution to a community should not be equated to the value of one's contributions to its coffers.

[Drakeo]

6 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

A person's value on these forums, and in SL, is not defined by how much money they may or may not pay for the privilege, and I for one wouldn't want to participate in any platform based around that premise.

I find the entire suggestion deeply offensive.

I disagree with your post. I prove it to my self every day searching these topics. If your offended that was never my reason.

My reason is there isn't any true  recourse for the troll in here.  Damage has been made.

The thread has and will be locked the history has been archived. Only the premium accounts can truly suffer.

 

 

[Drakeo]

26 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

I take that moderation attempt more as Harley Linden' personal slip by cultural influence ( "Shouldn't capitalism grant rights and services to paying members only ?") than a projection of company policy.

I wouldn't worry too much over it. Enough points are known and have been expressed why non-premiums contribute financially as  much ( if not more ) as premiums do. Let's say that at least they are able to do so if needed which will not change. Not even on OP's request.

Of course the answer to OP's question remains a sound 'yes' ... even from LL's perspective.

Yes they are allowed. I disagree with the system I am sure  a few tweaks could be done.

Like basic account have a year in before posting to the forum.

They can still search it. You do  not need an account to search knowledge base.

SL has an extensive wiki  a few of them.

They do not have live chat for a reason.

This stuff isn't free. And rude behavior should not be part of the knowledge base.

And to archive it for years to come devalues the the system.

This is a point of view from a simple search .

[Drakeo]

6 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It's a joint effort of both basic and premium accounts making that happen

I think you make a good point. I believe there can be tweaks made to create a system that is fair to the premium user.

what does a 30 day old troll have for a recourse. Only to be archived at the cost of the premium users.

 And or basic accounts that have become vested in SL forums.

 

[Drakeo]

4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

but but but... my alt IS premium, i'm not!

..and if being premium makes me a better person i might try it again for a while... but to be honest, i got most of my warnings , by a real Linden, during my premium time... oh perhaps was that to stimulate me to be even better...

Give it a shot they have wonderful resources.  The hours for live chat help is not the best for a world wide platform. 

But that said they new premium accounts really have come a logway.

And you can see LL did listen  and learn from past mistakes.

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, Drakeo said:

I think you make a good point. I believe there can be tweaks made to create a system that is fair to the premium user.

what does a 30 day old troll have for a recourse. Only to be archived at the cost of the premium users.

 And or basic accounts that have become vested in SL forums.

 

You must have misunderstood me.. Because I didn't say anything about making it just fair for premium only..

This is not a large enough problem to be limiting new users access to the forums. That's exactly what it would be doing..

A lot of the new basic accounts that come here are people looking for help that may or may not go premium..

Tweaks have been made to the forums already to where a new user to the forums has to work their way up before they can do certain things in the forums.

When is the last time you seen bot spam in here?

A couple of years ago?

You're kicking at dead hornets nest..

[Drakeo]

28 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

There have been innumerable valuable contributions to this forum by those who do not have premium accounts. Likewise, there has been plenty of valueless drivel posted on the forum by some who have premium accounts.

The value of one's contribution to a community should not be equated to the value of one's contributions to its coffers.

You make a wonderful point. but it is people like you that also suffer from the 30 day troll.

 You have vested time in here you post positive things to help people.

how would you detour a  basic account in here that is archived his troll  thought into history.

Damage is done it is archived for ever. And yes you a basic account vested and the premium account  suffer.

 

[Drakeo]

4 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

When is the last time you seen bot spam in here?

You make my point that is because this is a paid for forum.  This means you need to create an account to join.

You do not need land you do not even need to login to SL.

You create a basic account login.

This means people that could post in here never set a pixel inworld.

Yet they are allowed to come in here and be archived for life.

Not fair and simple searches in this forum proves this day in and day out.

The system is to be learned from not trashed but changed.

[Charlotte Bartlett]

10 hours ago, Drakeo said:

This is about the forum only. Again thank you for your fine products.

Concierge users (like me) use and post on the forum so we are part of the equation.

If it was just for Premium users, the Concierge users (who pay a minimum of 1,950 USD a year to LL as a starting point) with the Non Premium User's would also be excluded.   Regardless, I have already stated my position which you kindly agreed with.

Could I ask if your question is more about your own frustration with the forum. So that may be swaying your thoughts on this to a degree.  I.e. asking for a solution that doesn't actually solve what the real issue is?  

I think my experience of a troll directly on these forums - well I can barely remember any - so you seem to be having a very individual experience, that others of us do not, is vastly different.   You just ignore, don't engage, or do engage but understand what that entails.     Conflict doesn't have to happen if you refuse to participate and direct yourself to other threads, whilst a dose of diplomacy can always help defuse if it's just a clash versus an actual troll.

I personally believe It doesn't need a whole change to everybody's experience e.g. premium or not premium being "allowed" to post etc based on what I have read in this thread.  If every other poster was saying the same, there yes there is a community problem.  But when it one person, perhaps first best to see if my taking your own steps you can solve for the challenge you are facing without calling for a wider group of people to be impacted unnecessarily.  Taking responsibility for your experience, can be hugely empowering!

Therefore, perhaps the better question to ask yourself, is how you can change the way you use the forums, to better your own experience directly.

[Ceka Cianci]

37 minutes ago, Drakeo said:

You make my point that is because this is a paid for forum.  This means you need to create an account to join.

You do not need land you do not even need to login to SL.

You create a basic account login.

This means people that could post in here never set a pixel inworld.

Yet they are allowed to come in here and be archived for life.

Not fair and simple searches in this forum proves this day in and day out.

The system is to be learned from not trashed but changed.

I'll just say this.. If it's not broke don't fix it..

I'm here everyday and seeing a whole different thing than you are..

So your day in day out of the new basic accounts trolling.. It's just not holding water..

New player retention is a much bigger problem than a troll showing up  every once in awhile..

It's like you're trying to get 100.00 worth of importance out of 11.99..

hehehe

[Drakeo]

21 minutes ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

Concierge users (like me) use and post on the forum so we are part of the equation.

If it was just for Premium users, the Concierge users (who pay a minimum of 1,950 USD a year to LL as a starting point) with the Non Premium User's would also be excluded.   Regardless, I have already stated my position which you kindly agreed with.

Could I ask if your question is more about your own frustration with the forum. So that may be swaying your thoughts on this to a degree.  I.e. asking for a solution that doesn't actually solve what the real issue is?  

I think my experience of a troll directly on these forums - well I can barely remember any - so you seem to be having a very individual experience, that others of us do not, is vastly different.   You just ignore, don't engage, or do engage but understand what that entails.     Conflict doesn't have to happen if you refuse to participate and direct yourself to other threads, whilst a dose of diplomacy can always help defuse if it's just a clash versus an actual troll.

I personally believe It doesn't need a whole change to everybody's experience e.g. premium or not premium being "allowed" to post etc based on what I have read in this thread.  If every other poster was saying the same, there yes there is a community problem.  But when it one person, perhaps first best to see if my taking your own steps you can solve for the challenge you are facing without calling for a wider group of people to be impacted unnecessarily.  Taking responsibility for your experience, can be hugely empowering!

Therefore, perhaps the better question to ask yourself, is how you can change the way you use the forums, to better your own experience directly.

I disagree with you. This is about the  forum. not inworld. 

Again I thank you for your inworld product.

This is about abuse of a forum paid for by premium accounts a and large accounts like yours.

 There is no recourse for the troll.

I will say this again please limit this to the forum.

Fact a person can make an account.

Fact that person does not have to login to SL.

Fact that person  could never set a foot in SL.

This isn't about taking away the basic account's so called rights to post. This is about setting a environmental filter that

That may be archived to the fullest.

You really think  a 30 day account that is a troll has the right to live for ever in the archives.

I disagree. It only will hurt the "vested!" basic accounts and  truly hurt the resources

of paid accounts.

I really wish people would stick to the forum .

 

[Drakeo]

I wonder what the output would be if the title was trolls have rights to derail knowledge base.

 

[Skell Dagger]

3 hours ago, Drakeo said:

You have vested time in here you post positive things to help people.

And a large majority of those people are non-premium accounts. Tell me where they are going to get help that is specific to their particular query?

The official SL Knowledgebase doesn't cover things like how to fix neck seams between different heads and bodies, how to correct specific issues with fixing up specific combinations of heads and bodies, how to work with BoM (outside of the absolute basics on the KB), where to find a specific dev kit, how to fix a thorny scripting error, how to optimise a particular mesh creation made in this specific program, where to find this item I saw on someone inworld and only got a quick snapshot of, what's behind this particular rezzing error message, why is my avatar an orange cloud, as well as all the myriad and general panics that some users - particularly newbies, who are usually the least likely to be premium accounts - can have and need help with.

The KB - while an excellent resource - primarily covers the general workings and functions of SL itself. For the complexities - and those are manifold - of Second Life, it's the resident userbase - both basic and premium - that is Linden Lab's most valuable asset.

There is a tremendous wealth of knowledge in the userbase, and that wealth is not limited only to premium users.

3 hours ago, Drakeo said:

[ ... ] archived his troll  thought into history

Known trolls - the really bad ones who do things such as posting obscene images, or doxxing other forum members - have their posts removed and their accounts banned. We had a spate of these last year, and all of them were removed very quickly; within a couple of hours of reports going in.

The more subtle trolls - the kind who create and/or participate in inflammatory threads - usually end up with their threads (and their most inflammatory posts) hidden away from public view in a Moderator-only graveyard. Ever viewed someone's profile here on the forum, seen that they have (for example) 200 posts and yet only 180 of them are visible when you view their activity? Those 20 'missing' posts will never be seen by the general public, as they're locked away for moderator viewing only (and it's very likely that a moderator will check that hidden section of the forum for 'past history' if it came to considering future sanction).

3 hours ago, Drakeo said:

how would you detour a  basic account in here

As to how to deter a basic account here, there are already processes in place for that, and those processes make it bloody difficult for those of us who do try to offer help in here. Someone who is new to the forum can only make 6 posts per day (including PMs), for example. Do you have any idea how hard it is to help someone who is limited like that, when it can take 5 of those 6 posts just to help them understand what information you need from them in order to be able to help them?

And you would take even that away from them.

3 hours ago, Drakeo said:

And yes you a basic account vested and the premium account  suffer.

I am a premium account. I have been premium for the entirety of my 14 years in SL. If you want to talk about money invested into this platform, I have invested tens of thousands (probably hundreds of thousands by now; I try not to think about the actual amount too much), having paid tier on more than one region for many years. And yet here I am - someone who has invested probably enough to buy a really nice sports car, or put down a decent deposit on a new home, telling you that NO, I do not want this forum limited only to some 'elite' group of paying customers.

2 hours ago, Drakeo said:

I wonder what the output would be if the title was trolls have rights to derail knowledge base.

Given that the general userbase does not have edit rights to the KB at all, the output would likely be a lot of confused faces.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Skell Dagger
Ciarification regarding edit rights on the KB.

[Jaylinbridges]

1 hour ago, Drakeo said:

This isn't about taking away the basic account's so called rights to post. This is about setting a environmental filter that  That may be archived to the fullest.

So you want a  "troll filter" that still allows basic account users the right to post in this forum?  A 3 day old basic user posts for help here - that is fine with you?  You don't want to take away the basic accounts right to post, even though  you have been saying the opposite from your first post.  

But a 3 day old troll must somehow be filtered out.  Is this before or after they post?  Explain your magical troll filter.  I doubt that you can, but will wave your hands and claim  this is only about this forum.

Why are you searching ancient posts in this forum looking for what you think are trolls?  Are these trolls all less than 30 days old?  Is a troll someone who simply disagrees with you?

Will you answer any of these questions?  If not, I'll just keep asking.

 

 

 

[Coffee Pancake]

3 hours ago, Drakeo said:

I disagree with your post. I prove it to my self every day searching these topics. If your offended that was never my reason.

My reason is there isn't any true  recourse for the troll in here.  Damage has been made.

The thread has and will be locked the history has been archived. Only the premium accounts can truly suffer.

[Love Zhaoying]

Unpopular idea: trolls drive discussion and innovation.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Drakeo said:

And to archive it for years to come devalues the the system.

So..a free system, devalued, means..LL is going to pay us!!! I'm in!

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Drakeo said:

You really think  a 30 day account that is a troll has the right to live for ever in the archives.

 

There's always..moderators. 

[Coffee Pancake]

The OP's entire premise is the same 

2 hours ago, Drakeo said:

I disagree with you. This is about the  forum. not inworld. 

Again I thank you for your inworld product.

This is about abuse of a forum paid for by premium accounts a and large accounts like yours.

 There is no recourse for the troll.

I will say this again please limit this to the forum.

Fact a person can make an account.

Fact that person does not have to login to SL.

Fact that person  could never set a foot in SL.

This isn't about taking away the basic account's so called rights to post. This is about setting a environmental filter that

That may be archived to the fullest.

You really think  a 30 day account that is a troll has the right to live for ever in the archives.

I disagree. It only will hurt the "vested!" basic accounts and  truly hurt the resources

of paid accounts.

I really wish people would stick to the forum .

 

The only argument you're making is that LL should close the forums entirely.