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Why Did It Take So Long to Accept the Facts About Covid?


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PETA urges DCGI to replace calf serum method for vax production
IANS  |  New Delhi Last Updated at June 17, 2021

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) India, on Thursday, requested the Drugs Controller General of India (DCGI) to replace Newborn Calf Serum (NBCS) with animal-free chemical solution, in the production of the Covid-19 vaccine, Covaxin.

"The calves used in the extraction of this serum are taken away from their mothers shortly after birth, which traumatises and distresses both the mother and calf," says PETA India Science Policy Adviser Dr Ankita Pandey.

"PETA India looks to the Drugs Controller to ensure that vaccine manufacturers switch to available animal-free media that overcome the limitations associated with the use of animal-derived serum."

The Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (Slaughterhouse) Rules, 2001, prohibits the slaughter of pregnant animals and animals under 3 months of age - therefore, the use of serum obtained by slaughtering a calf younger than 20 days of age for vaccine production should also not be allowed.

The use of animal-derived components such as NBCS in vaccine production compromises the quality and reproducibility of research and is often associated with the risk of contamination by non-human proteins and pathogens.

The use of animal-derived serum could also delay Covid-19 vaccine production if shortages are experienced as vaccine production increases -- a concern avoided by the use of available, animal-free products.

(from https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/peta-urges-dcgi-to-replace-calf-serum-method-for-vax-production-121061700633_1.html)

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On the 30th of March 2021, the Brazilian drug regulator published a worrying report on its website, pointing to flaws in how Hyderabad-based Bharat Biotech was making Covaxin, its Covid-19 vaccine.

According to the report, Bharat Biotech had skipped key steps in ensuring that the SARS-COV-2 virus in the vaccine was fully killed, or was incapable of multiplying in the human body. This created the very real risk that some batches of Covaxin could give people the disease they were to protect against. Based on the report, Brazil suspended its order of 20 million Covaxin doses from Bharat Biotech.

(from https://www.livemint.com/science/news/how-covaxin-became-a-victim-of-vaccine-triumphalism-11622022760541.html)

🐍🐍🐍

 

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17 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Citation needed otherwise it's just antivaxer propaganda.

I dont know why you dont just google it yourself but here you go: 

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/06/10/covid-vaccine-myocarditis-rates-061021

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270339

Thats just here in the USA. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-sees-probable-link-between-pfizer-vaccine-small-number-myocarditis-cases-2021-06-01/

Its something to pay attention to. We dont have any long term data. We dont have 5-7+ years worth of data. I'm not an antivaxxer. Im fully vaccinated. But I require more data to fully support kids being vaccinated. We dont know what the long term effects of the vaccine in kids even is. I wont just blindly support something for the sake of reaching herd immunity. 

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44 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

I dont know why you dont just google it yourself but here you go: 

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/06/10/covid-vaccine-myocarditis-rates-061021

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270339

Thats just here in the USA. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-sees-probable-link-between-pfizer-vaccine-small-number-myocarditis-cases-2021-06-01/

Its something to pay attention to. We dont have any long term data. We dont have 5-7+ years worth of data. I'm not an antivaxxer. Im fully vaccinated. But I require more data to fully support kids being vaccinated. We dont know what the long term effects of the vaccine in kids even is. I wont just blindly support something for the sake of reaching herd immunity. 

It's decidedly teenagers and young adults and primarily males also.  It was mostly females with the blood clots with the J&J vaccine.  

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3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's decidedly teenagers and young adults and primarily males also.  It was mostly females with the blood clots with the J&J vaccine.  

Yes. The blood clots were only with pregnant women I believe.

 

10 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

My son, who is 22, has decided to wait a bit for his vaccine.  

Thats probably a good idea. I want to support getting everyone (kids and young adults) vaccinated but I also support being informed enough to know what the long term effects are gonna be and that information currently does not exist. We have increasing cases of heart problems in that age group and for me, its something that is quite alarming. 

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32 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

Yes. The blood clots were only with pregnant women I believe.

 

Thats probably a good idea. I want to support getting everyone (kids and young adults) vaccinated but I also support being informed enough to know what the long term effects are gonna be and that information currently does not exist. We have increasing cases of heart problems in that age group and for me, its something that is quite alarming. 

Women who had ever been pregnant.

He's old enough to make his own decisions.  He does still live at home and since he hasn't been vaccinated, he is still following masking protocol even though it's not mandatory in our state now.  He's at least being responsible enough to know he could still bring it home.  My husband and I and my mother have all been vaccinated but it's not 100% and he doesn't want to risk our health.

I'm hoping, eventually, things will be sorted out enough that he feels comfortable to get the vaccine.  Time will tell.

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13 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

How does everyone feel about kids getting vaccinated? Theres reports globally of children developing myocarditis and pericarditis. Basically, heart problems. My concern is there isnt any long term data on the negative effects the vaccine will have in kids. 

As far as I can see the cases are rare, too few to determine whether there is a correlation between them & the vaccine or whether it is just the usual low rate. 

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3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Citation needed otherwise it's just antivaxer propaganda.

From the something I heard earlier today about this it was  one case and so far there is nothing to tie it to Covid-19.

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12 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

From the something I heard earlier today about this it was  one case and so far there is nothing to tie it to Covid-19.

More like 300 cases.  Rare but still troubling to me.

It remains unclear whether the vaccines are the cause of the heart problem, though the CDC has said that evidence for a link is growing stronger.

CDC: 300-plus cases of heart issue after Covid vaccination reported in young people (msn.com)

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22 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

More like 300 cases.  Rare but still troubling to me.

It remains unclear whether the vaccines are the cause of the heart problem, though the CDC has said that evidence for a link is growing stronger.

CDC: 300-plus cases of heart issue after Covid vaccination reported in young people (msn.com)

I'm sorry.  I worded that very poorly. What I was trying to say is there is no link between the vaccines for Covid-19 and the myocarditis. Yeah, that vaccine part was kind of important there. lol 

Apparently someone started a rumor that the vaccines are causing the myocarditis and the news program was debunking it this morning.

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It's important, I think, when assessing risks from vaccines always to balance them against the risks inherent in remaining unvaccinated and, at some point in the future, catching Covid and suffering severe and lasting effects.     Furthermore, the risks posed by remaining unvaccinated grow over time, in a way the risks from the vaccine don't.

 

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13 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

It's important, I think, when assessing risks from vaccines always to balance them against the risks inherent in remaining unvaccinated and, at some point in the future, catching Covid and suffering severe and lasting effects.     Furthermore, the risks posed by remaining unvaccinated grow over time, in a way the risks from the vaccine don't.

18 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

Its something to pay attention to. We dont have any long term data. We dont have 5-7+ years worth of data. I'm not an antivaxxer. Im fully vaccinated. But I require more data to fully support kids being vaccinated. We dont know what the long term effects of the vaccine in kids even is. I wont just blindly support something for the sake of reaching herd immunity. 

While we may be uncertain of long-term vaccine effects, we have absolutely no information about the long term effects of asymptomatic COVID. Yeah, kids seem overwhelmingly unaffected when they contract the disease (although there's even some doubt about how well that holds up with "delta" and potential future variants), but what we really don't know is the severity and frequency of effects decades after the virus was contracted. Will it behave like some viruses that have especially severe long-term effects for those who contracted the disease as children? Will those long-delayed effects correlate positively or negatively with the severity of initial symptoms? 

Comparing risks by analogy: chickenpox vaccine sure beats shingles, and the polio vaccine wins over post-polio syndrome, all above and beyond the benefit of not contracting chickenpox or polio.

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You never want to let a full blown active virus into your body. There is no situation where that condition is preferable over a vaccine.

They can mess with your actual DNA (among other irreversible modifications) and come back to haunt you in non trivial ways the rest of your life. 

A virus does not 100% go away when your body beats the infection.

 

I had chickenpox as a child before vaccinations were available, thanks to a well meaning parent who decided it was best to just get it out of the way over a summer holiday (oblivious to the fact it can kick off bacterial infections, pneumonia, sepsis and actual death). That virus lives in me now for the rest of my life.

Shingles might have a funny name .. but really, it's a rash that hints at some pretty harsh nerve damage going on out of sight. Future joys include pain, permanent loss of sensation, deafness, and facial paralysis. Shingles SUCKS.

Thanks parent who didn't want the potential inconvenience of a sick child during term time and figured "it's fine for children, they barely suffer with it". 

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On 6/15/2021 at 6:51 PM, Flook Somerset said:

Most novel ideas are going to be wrong; being novel is not good reason to assume they are right. Occasionally there are ideas that are significantly out of step and turn out to be right but they are few & far between.

Since microbes were not known to exist then, Semmelweiss could offer no explanations for why his idea could work; to many he was saying it was incompetence on the doctor's part that was killing patients. He was able to persuade enough trainee doctors (who wouldn't yet have had their own patients) that it slowly became established practice and was later explained with Pasteur's work.

Planck's Principle is about axiomatic change, not the advancement of science generally; which size droplets the Covid virus primarily spreads via is not axiomatic, just determining the exact mechanism. How accurate facts are is dependent on how much is known about the subject; that knowledge increases with each change needing to be repeatedly confirmed. Change can be slow because of the need for such confirmation. 

Looking at this list of medical treatments that were promoted in past, in spite of killing a majority of patients, I have to wonder if the real problem was that hand washing was so mundane that they could not see themselves making money off of it so were not motivated to change. That attitude still seems to be somewhat prevalent today if one looks at why off-patent drugs like Ivermectin or Vitamin D are discarded and replaced by experimental vaccines.

30 Old-School Medical Practices That Were Seriously Sketchy

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6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

While we may be uncertain of long-term vaccine effects, we have absolutely no information about the long term effects of asymptomatic COVID.

I would point out that even if the long term effects are the same, the fact that only a small percentage (3%?) of the population will catch COVID, 75+% of the population will get the vaccination so therefore many more will suffer the long term vaccine effects then would from COVID itself.

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27 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I would point out that even if the long term effects are the same, the fact that only a small percentage (3%?) of the population will catch COVID, 75+% of the population will get the vaccination so therefore many more will suffer the long term vaccine effects then would from COVID itself.

The long term effects may be orders of magnitude worse

and 75% is 25% too few.

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3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The long term effects may be orders of magnitude worse

and 75% is 25% too few.

The only long term effect of asymptomatic Covid-19 seems to be the long Covid which is treatable from what I have been reading whereas the myocarditis that some are prone to after receiving the vaccine, can permanently damage the heart and make one prone to heart failure, heart attacks, strokes or arrhythmias. Already there have been 300 reported events of that and it is commonly accepted that the reporting system only sees a 1% representation of the actual. Considering that males are the most susceptible and also the most likely to not report it, that is probably conservative so we are looking at at least 3000 cases of varying degrees of myocarditis alone.

75% is a reasonable figure for an emergency use vaccine that has had no long term testing.

 

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40 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Looking at this list of medical treatments that were promoted in past, in spite of killing a majority of patients, I have to wonder if the real problem was that hand washing was so mundane that they could not see themselves making money off of it so were not motivated to change. That attitude still seems to be somewhat prevalent today if one looks at why off-patent drugs like Ivermectin or Vitamin D are discarded and replaced by experimental vaccines.

30 Old-School Medical Practices That Were Seriously Sketchy

Well, that's not a sketchy click bait website with poorly sourced, out of context, lists of things (so many lists), not at all.

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1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Well, that's not a sketchy click bait website with poorly sourced, out of context, lists of things (so many lists), not at all.

Did you expect anything less?  As someone else mentioned somewhere else...credibility.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Did you expect anything less?  As someone else mentioned somewhere else...credibility.

 

5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Well, that's not a sketchy click bait website with poorly sourced, out of context, lists of things (so many lists), not at all.

If that is the strongest critique you can make of my post, than I have done better than expected!

Edited by Arielle Popstar
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