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Why Did It Take So Long to Accept the Facts About Covid?


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Ugh. I'm just done with this. But I'm also done with the system that created this. I'm done with being forced against my will to pay in to it, I protest its consistent and persistent lack of representation for my world, I'm against its tireless efforts to literally flood my life with consternation directly or indirectly. I resent its generations-long effort to degrade my family and our entire world. It's not a human system, here. It's not even a lawful system.

There's something deeply spiritually wrong with English-speaking culture, I don't know what it is, or how it happened, but it's lost. And it's going to take down everything around it like a flaying rabid animal.

SealOfTheUS_Prototype.png

Edited by Chroma Starlight
E pluribus unum
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12 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It is amazing how many people think sage smells like mj when the scents are nothing alike. 

We're sorry but we can't help but laugh at certain people the first time they attend a powwow and smell sage or sweetgrass burning. They even swear the sweetgrass is mj. I think people have been living in cities too long and have lost their sense of smell.

It's context, though -- most people who live in cities don't smell either burning sage, sweetgrass or weed very often, or not consciously, so when their teenager, who they know is into all sorts of new age stuff, says that funny smell coming from their room is burning sage, then that's no less probable than Gwyneth Paltrow's scented candles

Edited by Innula Zenovka
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1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

most people who live in cities don't smell either burning sage, sweetgrass or weed very often,

Weed & patchouli are weirdly common here. Super rare I smell cigarettes.

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5 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

It's context, though -- most people who live in cities don't smell either burning sage, sweetgrass or weed very often, or not consciously, so when their teenager, who they know is into all sorts of new age stuff, says that funny smell coming from their room burning sage, then that's no less probable than Gwyneth Paltrow's scented candles

We always told our parents we were burning incense. Patchouli. And we weren't lying. We just didn't volunteer any further information. 

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14 hours ago, Chroma Starlight said:

There's something deeply spiritually wrong with English-speaking culture, I don't know what it is, or how it happened, but it's lost. And it's going to take down everything around it like a flaying rabid animal.

Strangely, reading such books as The End Of The MegaMachine: A Brief History Of A Failing Civilization, gives me hope. By learning how such a selfish and hoarding way of relating to the world developed I can see it was not always so and doesn't have to exist in the future.

I like to study the 'why' as well, theories proposed in psychology and philosophy, as I develop more sympathy from such awareness.

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On 5/8/2021 at 6:34 PM, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

They weren't initially facts, and it's interesting to note that the respiratory droplets idea was one that was proven to be patently false back in the great London Cholera epidemics of the 1840-60s, when the idea of a miasma spreading the disease was finally put to rest by some dedicated research. I suspect the memory of that coloured some thinking when it was once again proposed that droplets were responsible for the spread.

 

The miasma theory was that "bad air" spread diseases, not that respiratory droplets. 

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On 5/9/2021 at 9:39 PM, Arielle Popstar said:

I'm not dissing science per se, just your version of the science. Semmelweis did the science and discovered how to not kill so many mothers and their babies, but it was the mainstream doctors with their ego's and political agendas that refused to accept it. Not much has changed has it? The difference is that now we know even the patients accepted the mainstreams guidance through their own ignorance and those who put their trust in that wrong guidance and refused to question whether it was correct. 

If mainstream science is that close minded then perhaps we need to challenge it with Planck's Principle that posits Science only progresses at the funerals of the old guard. We pay for that close mindedness with our lives.

Most novel ideas are going to be wrong; being novel is not good reason to assume they are right. Occasionally there are ideas that are significantly out of step and turn out to be right but they are few & far between.

Since microbes were not known to exist then, Semmelweiss could offer no explanations for why his idea could work; to many he was saying it was incompetence on the doctor's part that was killing patients. He was able to persuade enough trainee doctors (who wouldn't yet have had their own patients) that it slowly became established practice and was later explained with Pasteur's work.

Planck's Principle is about axiomatic change, not the advancement of science generally; which size droplets the Covid virus primarily spreads via is not axiomatic, just determining the exact mechanism. How accurate facts are is dependent on how much is known about the subject; that knowledge increases with each change needing to be repeatedly confirmed. Change can be slow because of the need for such confirmation. 

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Hi there! Please remember to keep posts both on-topic and civil, so that this thread can remain open.

Walking away from interpersonal disputes is always recommended, but if you simply must let someone know your opinion of them or their opinion, please take it to private messages. 

If you need a refresher, you can always review the Community Participation Guidelines.

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Quote

WHO says delta Covid variant has now spread to 80 countries and it keeps mutating
WED, JUN 16 2021 1:32 PM / Rich Mendez/ CNBC

KEY POINTS
  • The delta variant has spread to more than 80 countries worldwide.
  • Delta now makes up 10% of new cases in the U.S., up from 6% last week.
  • The WHO added a new variant called lambda to its list of variants of interest.

 The WHO is also tracking recent reports of a “delta plus” variant. “What I think this means is that there is an additional mutation that has been identified,”

The WHO on Tuesday also added another Covid mutation, the lambda variant, to its list of variants of interest. The agency is monitoring more than 50 different Covid variants, but not all become enough of a public health threat to make the WHO’s formal watchlist. The lambda variant has multiple mutations in the spike protein that could have an impact on its transmissibility, but more studies are needed to fully understand the mutations, Van Kerkhove said.

The lambda variant has been detected by scientists in South America, including in Chile, Peru, Ecuador and Argentina, thanks to increased genomic surveillance.


(from https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/16/who-says-delta-covid-variant-has-now-spread-to-80-countries-and-it-keeps-mutating.html)

Quote

A Stock Phrase, usually spoken in response to an emergent situation wherein the speaker suddenly realizes either the sudden absence of a necessity, or that the one in their possession is woefully insufficient. They need more.

Context is key here. If someone misreads their cookbooks and buys four eggs instead of six: "I'm going to need more eggs" is not this trope in that context. Someone turning up with six eggs and being told they have to feed cake to eight hundred cranky children and remarking "I'm going to need more eggs" IS this trope. In comedy, the trope can be played with by using it in a situation where no quantity of the specified item would be sufficient to overcome the problem.
(https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GonnaNeedMoreX)



Test.

Quarantine.

Contain.
 

Edited by Chroma Starlight
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On 6/14/2021 at 11:41 AM, Chroma Starlight said:

I suppose that I must be saying that I would far rather die a natural death after a long life than be degraded by an unethical medical, political, or societal experiment.

You realise that an mRNA vaccine and RNAi therapy are two quite different things?

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Ignoring the problem just lets antivaxers suck up all the oxygen in the room, which they will happily do, all day long .. till they end up appearing to have a valid alternative viewpoint & moderations fails for fear of being seen as political.

 

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4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Ignoring the problem just lets antivaxers suck up all the oxygen in the room, which they will happily do, all day long .. till they end up appearing to have a valid alternative viewpoint & moderations fails for fear of being seen as political.

 

So don't ignore it.   Do something more useful, though, than engage with people who don't want to listen.

I found this article on the CCDH Website, Vaccine hesitancy, and what we can do about it,  by Dr Daniel Allington very interesting and useful (it summarises his report here  Vaccine hesitancy: global problem, local solutions 

(tl;dr -- don't argue with anti-vaxxers, because it's a waste of time. Instead, here's how to listen to, and help and support with good information, people who are simply in search of more information or have questions and doubts they want to resolve).

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On 6/15/2021 at 12:44 AM, Chroma Starlight said:

It's not a human system, here.

Aha! That's why you are so at loggerheads with everyone here. We are all humans in this forum, so it's a human system here. From what you wrote, it's different where you are.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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How does everyone feel about kids getting vaccinated? Theres reports globally of children developing myocarditis and pericarditis. Basically, heart problems. My concern is there isnt any long term data on the negative effects the vaccine will have in kids. 

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3 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

How does everyone feel about kids getting vaccinated? Theres reports globally of children developing myocarditis and pericarditis. Basically, heart problems. My concern is there isnt any long term data on the negative effects the vaccine will have in kids. 

I can't speak for "everyone,"  obviously, but in the UK it's apparently unlikely children under 18 will be offered vaccinations since they're at such a low risk of dying from Covid (the main criterion here).   It's also argued that the vaccines would be better used elsewhere, vaccinating adults in other countries where the need is greater.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/16/uk-minister-vaccine-advisers-not-planning-back-covid-jabs-children

Quote

Vaccination experts are not planning to recommend Covid-19 jabs for children, a cabinet minister has said, while prominent academics have suggested that existing doses should be used to immunise vulnerable people around the world before those in the UK who are relatively safe.

Speaking for the government on Wednesday, Liz Truss, the international trade secretary, said she understood that the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) would not recommend the vaccination of under-18s.

[....]

Some academics have questioned the wisdom of giving vaccines to young children, who data suggests are relatively safe from the direct effects of Covid – particularly when more vulnerable people elsewhere in the world are without vaccines. Other people have suggested that vaccinating children could help prevent outbreaks in schools.

Prof Calum Semple, a member of the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), said: “The risk of death [from Covid in children] is one in a million. That’s not a figure and plucking from the air, that’s a quantifiable risk.”

The University of Liverpool professor of child health and outbreak medicine told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “We know in wave one and wave two put together there were 12 deaths in children – in England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland, put together – and that is rare because there are about 13 to 14 million children in the UK.

“So, we’re talking about vaccinating children here mainly to protect public health and reduce transmission … So we’re now coming into a really interesting ethical and moral debate here about vaccinating children for the benefit of others.”

 

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The CDC is recommending Covid vaccination for children, and they are being vaccinated in the U.S.:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/adolescents.html

I have mixed feelings about it...I wouldn't want kids to be vaccinated simply to keep adults safe, and perhaps it is better to save these vaccines for other countries having difficulties accessing vaccines. But, there are increasing reports (so far, small tests) about the affects of long-Covid in children and so perhaps they should be vaccinated:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927578/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/as-more-kids-go-down-the-deep-dark-tunnel-of-long-covid-doctors-still-cant-predict-who-is-at-risk

https://www.longcovidkids.org/

Edited by Luna Bliss
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7 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:
On 6/14/2021 at 6:44 PM, Chroma Starlight said:

It's not a human system, here.

Aha! That's why you are so at loggerheads with everyone here. We are all humans in this forum, so it's a human system here. From what you wrote, it's different where you are.

A human system (in the context Chroma used it) would be a system that cares about the well-being of humans as opposed to excessive focus on profit. We could definitely benefit from a more humane system of medical care in the fight against Covid. In the U.S. especially we are notorious for our lack of public health policies compared to the countries benefitting from nationalized health care.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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11 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said:

What is a human? 

What? Are you insinuating that humans are not the pinnacle of creation?? 😉

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On 6/14/2021 at 4:44 PM, Chroma Starlight said:

It's not a human system, here. It's not even a lawful system.

It's not just the USA or English speaking countries, it's the world.  It's the patriarchy, it's still alive and well.  Men are good for military, women not so much.  The gifted are good for making money even in so-called Communist nations, the non-gifted not good for making money.  

 

On 6/14/2021 at 4:44 PM, Chroma Starlight said:

There's something deeply spiritually wrong with English-speaking culture, I don't know what it is, or how it happened, but it's lost. 

The problem with the world is the patriarchy.  It's always been the patriarchy.  I'm a women, I know what I have been through because of the patriarchy.  The patriarchy marches on.

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There is no ‘end of nature’ to fear, no end of the ‘wild’. There is only the loss of our own vividness and dignity, and the rich and complex identity that could come from an understanding of kinship with many other living things and the benign mystery that connects and sustains all. That vividness is still accessible to us, even if it seems ghostly in the glare of screens or like a bad joke in the lives of the enslaved, hungry and impoverished. It continues to slip the bonds of all our attempts to neutralise it. And if it really is cosmological in nature, as other humans have guessed, it will always do so, until we learn from it or fade before it.

For now it waits, a possibility, in the immanence of any day in any place where you can lift your eyes from the glow of the screen or the darkness of an interior space and find it inherent in sunlight on leaves, a bird settling on a wall, a fearless and face-to-face conversation with a stranger or a loved one.

That is not enough. But that is what we have to work with now, we the civilised. The emptiness at the heart of civilisation will never be perfect, and that is our chance.

  --  Christy Rodgers

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10 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

How does everyone feel about kids getting vaccinated? Theres reports globally of children developing myocarditis and pericarditis. Basically, heart problems. My concern is there isnt any long term data on the negative effects the vaccine will have in kids. 

Citation needed otherwise it's just antivaxer propaganda.

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