what's the matter????

[Ultima Cloud]

3 minutes ago, Doc Carling said:

Are you aware that Australia has about 16 million voters. While ten times more, about 160 millions voted 2020 in the US. So I suppose it is pointless to compare Australian with US votings. 6000 votes miscounted? Who said that? It is easy to quote hearsay instead to deliver facts.

US voters 2020

Lol yes kind of like President Trump, who has access to all kinds of top secret information, needs to site Breitbart to spread his lies..

[Ultima Cloud]

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 hours ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Wait, what, did you change your name, too??????

le sighe...

I haven't ever? 🤔

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

I always think of Orange County when I think of California politics. I guess one has to go back a ways to see the GOP carry California in a presidential election. Most recently, 1988, GHW Bush vs Dukakis:

But it's hard to argue that California and Vermont are both more conservative than West Virginia and Iowa, so I guess that's too far back for relevance.

You aren't looking at the reality though here, Qie.  For instance, Massachusetts has a population of about 6 million.  California has a population of almost 40 million.   California took in more immigrants than the population of the state of Massachusetts and probably enough immigrant population for four liberal states.  California is a very complex state.   We have people from all over the world living here.  Although, I'd say California is largely liberal.  It was interesting that the Hispanic vote in Texas and Florida were the states where many Hispanics flipped from Democrat to voting for Trump - one of their main reasons is that Trump is anti-abortion although Trump is unable to do anything about making abortion illegal.  

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

Hey, guys, Canadian here. I really don't care about your election, I just find it interesting that you're fighting over it and that a so called democracy could come to this. Why y'all so crazy?

That said, I found this twiiter post from TrumpforAmerica while I was just scrolling through my normal news feeds. As I understand it, America uses voting machines and they just do any ol' thing. Then they report to the media and then the media declares the winner. If that is indeed the case, why do y'all bother to vote at all?

Do the votes get calculated by a machine then get counted by hand? I know, I know, California has a higher population than my entire country. Still, we have the election results the same night. Just find it odd this election map shows Trump won by a landslide, yet CNN announced the winner as Biden? 

In Canada, I've never seen a landslide like this where one party gets this many votes and is declared the loser. Bee Tee Dubs, we don't have television or count votes by machine, so I'm genuinely curious. We do it the old fashion way, by hand....and we get the results the same night. Why are Americans so crazy in a so called democracy?

As I've said, genuine question, not a troll, please don't flame me. Thanks.

Edit: I've done a little digging and it seems like this map is clearly accurate and if you doubt the veracity of it you are clearly a fool.

An election between two traitors. You like living dangerously.

[Ultima Cloud]

6 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

You aren't looking at the reality though here, Qie.  For instance, Massachusetts has a population of about 6 million.  California has a population of almost 40 million.   California took in more immigrants than the population of the state of Massachusetts and probably enough immigrant population for four liberal states.  California is a very complex state.   We have people from all over the world living here.  Although, I'd say California is largely liberal.  It was interesting that the Hispanic vote in Texas and Florida were the states where many Hispanics flipped from Democrat to voting for Trump - one of their main reasons is that Trump is anti-abortion although Trump is unable to do anything about making abortion illegal.  

Hispanics aren't automatically going to vote democrat over immigration. Specifically Mexican Americans. In fact Mexicans who are here legally are more likely to vote republican. Its like one of the oldest rivalries in the US.

[CaerolleClaudel]

14 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I haven't ever? 🤔

I am so confused, I thought it was Maddie replying, what with the 'set you on fire' stuff...

[Silent Mistwalker]

Just now, CaerolleClaudel said:

I am so confused, I thought it was Maddie replying, what with the 'set you on fire' stuff...

I'm sorry. I was just filling in for her because she doesn't post as much as she used to. I do that sometimes. I didn't mean to cause any confusion.

[CaerolleClaudel]

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

I'm sorry. I was just filling in for her because she doesn't post as much as she used to. I do that sometimes. I didn't mean to cause any confusion.

You're fine, lol. I didn't realize she had started a MOVEMENT!!! 😁💖

[Doc Carling]

I think one reason for most of the current politcial troubles in the US is probably the two party system. Different political movements with different philosophies and ideas have no chance to raise and to offer alternatives.

[Luna Bliss]

On 11/7/2020 at 9:39 PM, Janet Voxel said:

On 11/7/2020 at 9:21 PM, Luna Bliss said:

I guess there's no one type among these 70 million Trump supporters.

Where I live there's a strong religious influence. I remember this one guy I knew for awhile, very friendly, a conservative -- he'd give anybody the shirt off his back if they needed it. But when I accidentally gave him a job reference phone number on the only card beside me at the time (my business Reiki card), he freaked out, and said he didn't feel badly about me personally but knew Satan was influencing me through an Eastern religion.  I never heard from him again.  The terror in his eyes was something I'll never forget.

So in his case, it was strong conditioning due to the community he grew up in, and a lack of critical thinking.  There are so many religious communities in the US just like the one he belonged to.

Expand  Expand  

You really have to stop looking down on people like that. 
 

When I moved here 13 years ago I drove across the country for a month. America is so vast, so many different ways of life. So he was religious...that doesn’t mean he lacks critical thinking skills. It sounds to me like he was a little intolerant.

You've mentioned I felt triggered. Well yes, Janet, I was offended.
Do you think your response was a good one, to say "you need to stop looking down on people like that" when I described the ending of a friendship when my friend, Freddie, discovered I was involved in an Eastern practice which is very loving (Reiki). And not just ending the friendship because we'd grown in different directions as many friendships do, but instead suddenly believing I was part of something Satanic? Yes, I said he lacked critical thinking skills in his evaluation of the matter, of religions, but I never put him down. Other people might have laughed at him or put him down but I did neither. All I did was feel hurt. I'm accustomed to these religious types around here who freak out over Eastern religions and think their brand of Christianity is 'the one true way' and everybody else is evil and going to hell. And it IS a lack of critical thinking -- it's totally illogical to believe one would be so lucky to live in a part of the world that is blessed by God while all the rest of the world is evil and going to hell!

And Janet, while I'm harping on you, what is this obsession you have with imagining these 70 plus million are one monolithic block? They aren't all this one type you like to focus on (those who lost jobs and are impoverished now, turning to Trump to save them). They do not consist only of those who live in the areas you saw on a drive through the Pennsylvania area but instead are composed of many types, and many are quite wealthy. Yet every time I tried to bring up another type of Trumper you parroted "it's not that, it's not that". You're exhibiting a severe lack of critical thinking here, unable to view the complexities of the situation and basing the entire problem according to your one experience (this infamous drive through the states).

Thanks for reminding me and demonstrating through your lack of critical thinking that it's not just conservatives who have this problem with thinking critically, because if you want to chastise me for anything it should be that I tend to think it's more the conservatives who exhibit a lack in critical thinking skills and suffer from what is known colloquially and in therapy circles as 'stinkin thinkin'.
And btw, in my evaluation of you regarding critical thinking skills I am putting you down, because I expect more from you.

[FairreLilette]

22 minutes ago, Ultimo Constantineau said:

Hispanics aren't automatically going to vote democrat over immigration. Specifically Mexican Americans. In fact Mexicans who are here legally are more likely to vote republican. Its like one of the oldest rivalries in the US.

There was a shift to more Hispanic voters voting Republican this current election.  Immigration never came up in the article I read.  More Hispanics in Texas and Florida voted from Trump because of these issues:  Jobs, health care and the fact Trump is anti-abortion.  In the past year or so, that I heard at least, Texas wants to over-turn the abortion laws and also Texas wants to be it's own Country.   Texas being it's own country doesn't sound like a good idea, especially when California's Gov. Newsom just announced all cars must be zero-emission by 2035.  Texas is oil tycoon territory.  Fossil fuel is heading towards an end.

Edited November 10, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Luna Bliss]

25 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Trump is anti-abortion although Trump is unable to do anything about making abortion illegal

Well actually he is succeeding in a horribly impressive indirect manner -- he's been packing the courts with evangelical, anti-abortion judges. I believe it's 40 so far in the lower courts plus the infamous new supreme court judge, Amy Coney Barrett. A crucial abortion vote is coming up in the supreme court soon.

This has been part of his plan all along -- his authoritarian power-plays combined with giving evangelicals what they want so he could get their vote.

He even said some time back that abortion would become illegal once he made the courts more conservative.

[Ultima Cloud]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

There was a shift to more Hispanic voters voting Republican.  Immigration never came up in the article I read.  More Hispanics in Texas and Florida voted from Trump because of these issues:  Jobs, health care and the fact Trump is anti-abortion.  In the past year or so, that I heard at least, Texas wants to over-turn the abortion laws and also Texas wants to be it's own Country.   Texas being it's own country doesn't sound like a good idea, especially when California Gov. Newsom just announced all cars must be zero-emission by 2035.  

Exactly, immigration isn't a priority to them yet that's what Democrats focused on. Hence why they lost them. 

[FairreLilette]

1 minute ago, Ultimo Constantineau said:

Exactly, immigration isn't a priority to them yet that's what Democrats focused on. Hence why they lost them. 

Oh, I see what you are saying.  But, Biden is pro-choice, so that is against many of their belief as well.  

 

[Luna Bliss]

Today the supreme court is evaluating the legality of the Affordable Care Act, decision due in the spring. Amy Coney Barrett is against the ACA, and if things go the Republicans way it will be overturned and millions will lose health insurance.  This, along with Trump firing the defense secretary is making me think Trump is just going to trash America as much as he can on the way out, and beyond.

*Biden will be speaking to this today.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[FairreLilette]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well actually he is succeeding in a horribly impressive indirect manner -- he's been packing the courts with evangelical, anti-abortion judges. I believe it's 40 so far in the lower courts plus the infamous new supreme court judge, Amy Coney Barrett. A crucial abortion vote is coming up in the supreme court soon.

This has been part of his plan all along -- his authoritarian power-plays combined with giving evangelicals what they want so he could get their vote.

He even said some time back that abortion would become illegal once he made the courts more conservative.

I think I will get my tubes tied.  I don't want children at my age.  LOL 

I hope not, anyways.

However, Poland has now (just recently) over-turned the abortion laws in Poland to where it is now illegal.  I saw an article with people in Poland protesting this decision; they were arrested.  

[Luna Bliss]

9 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

More Hispanics in Texas and Florida voted from Trump because of these issues:  Jobs, health care and the fact Trump is anti-abortion.

Yes, and in Florida there was the issue of imagining Democrats are Socialists, something Cuban-American's fear due to their time under Socialism in Cuba. 

I believe in Florida the figure of those for Trump was over 45%.

[Ultima Cloud]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, and in Florida there was the issue of imagining Democrats are Socialists, something Cuban-American's fear due to their time under Socialism in Cuba. 

I believe in Florida the figure of those for Trump was over 45%.

Yes I found this amazing considering the alt right is a lot closer to the type of socialism they fear than any democrat in office rn. 

[Luna Bliss]

36 minutes ago, Ultimo Constantineau said:

39 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, and in Florida there was the issue of imagining Democrats are Socialists, something Cuban-American's fear due to their time under Socialism in Cuba. 

I believe in Florida the figure of those for Trump was over 45%.

Yes I found this amazing considering the alt right is a lot closer to the type of socialism they fear than any democrat in office rn. 

Indeed. The Republicans have really done a number on all these people who confuse Democracy with Socialism.  To have the health care that the rest of the developed world enjoys (and many more undeveloped nations enjoy as well) is something tantamount to Communism??!!

You'd think they never heard of the man with the funny mustache in WW2 and how fascism limits the freedom they seek too. And, how much our current president checks off most of the qualities inherent in a nascent autocracy.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

On 11/8/2020 at 11:07 PM, Ceka Cianci said:

On 11/8/2020 at 3:07 PM, Luna Bliss said:

Haha Ceka, if you'd been in Bible school as a kid you'd be one of students I've heard about who totally freaked out the Bible studies teacher and gave them massive headaches!  What! -- a child thinking logically with better critical thinking skills and confusing the teacher  
A question for you -- why do you think you were able to develop critical thinking skills while others immersed in some religions are more easily able to ignore logic?

Expand  

In a short answer I'm gonna say, it's probably been handed down to me in my raising..

I could make a big long post going into details, but really it just comes down to who raised me.. They had the survival smarts and passed them onto me and still do to this day.. I'm grateful to them for that..

Those roll over into everything.. I don't just do that with religions.. That's probably why i test your empathy so much.. hehehe

Well actually, that time when I said you were taxing my empathy it was because I thought you weren't thinking critically about an incident...lol.

But interesting question, and I can't say I understand it totally -- why do some people develop critical thinking skills with religions (or in other areas) while others do not.  I'm tending to think it comes down to 'need'....when you really need something it's difficult not to slant the logic your way - similar to confirmation bias.  I'm imagining that, with our jaunts into Christianity, we didn't need that religious community as much as others who were easily able to swallow illogical beliefs hook, line and sinker. It's much more difficult for those who were raised in a particular cult where they in some cases lose their entire family when they leave the cult. 

And like you say, upbringing does influence how much and in what way we need others, either via direct instruction or via deficiencies in nurturing.

[Luna Bliss]

37 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

43 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

He even said some time back that abortion would become illegal once he made the courts more conservative.

I think I will get my tubes tied.  I don't want children at my age.  LOL 

I hope not, anyways.

However, Poland has now (just recently) over-turned the abortion laws in Poland to where it is now illegal.  I saw an article with people in Poland protesting this decision; they were arrested. 

I have already reproduced!!

I keep up on Poland a bit, as Anne Applebaum lives there and writes a lot about fascism and her disturbances over the changes in Poland in that direction (as well as in other countries).

Just the fact that I'm starting to wonder if the following photo is too hyperbolic says a lot:

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Doc Carling]

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I keep up on Poland a bit, as Anne Applebaum lives there and writes a lot about fascism and her disturbances over the changes in Poland in that direction (as well as in other countries).

In Poland the katholic church is very powerful. It is not always the Islam who is doing harm to the people. But that is off topic.

[FairreLilette]

17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I have already reproduced!!

I keep up on Poland a bit, as Anne Applebaum lives there and writes a lot about fascism and her disturbances over the changes in Poland in that direction (as well as in other countries).

I had only heard of this a few days ago...it appears only certain types have been over-ruled.  I'd need to read more.

Pope Francis did recently come out and say he supports same sex unions.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by FairreLilette

[FairreLilette]

5 minutes ago, Doc Carling said:

In Poland the katholic church is very powerful. It is not always the Islam who is doing harm to the people. But that is off topic.

Yes I know I am half Polish.  My grandparents fled from Poland during WWI in 1917 with one steamer trunk.

My family has Katholics in it - some are conservative, some are liberal.