what's the matter????

[Ceka Cianci]

24 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well actually, that time when I said you were taxing my empathy it was because I thought you weren't thinking critically about an incident...lol.

But interesting question, and I can't say I understand it totally -- why do some people develop critical thinking skills with religions (or in other areas) while others do not.  I'm tending to think it comes down to 'need'....when you really need something it's difficult not to slant the logic your way - similar to confirmation bias.  I'm imagining that, with our jaunts into Christianity, we didn't need that religious community as much as others who were easily able to swallow illogical beliefs hook, line and sinker. It's much more difficult for those who were raised in a particular cult where they in some cases lose their entire family when they leave the cult. 

And like you say, upbringing does influence how much and in what way we need others, either via direct instruction or via deficiencies in nurturing.

If you look at Christianity the way it's supposed to be followed it's not a bad thing at all..Now if you look and the  goofballs trying to scare the hell into everyone and fear mongering with old laws claiming they are speaking in the name of Christianity..I've always have a problem with those types..

Just like with anything..like with BLM, there is the peaceful people, then those goofballs that show up later tearing everything up making it look like the whole context of what they are doing, something totally different that what it is..

There are those that walk the path and then there are the extremists.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Luna Bliss]

Supreme Court live....ACA:

 

[Luna Bliss]

18 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

If you look at Christianity the way it's supposed to be followed it's not a bad thing at all..Now if you look and the  goofballs trying to scare the hell into everyone and fear mongering with old laws claiming they are speaking in the name of Christianity..I've always have a problem with those types..

Just like with anything..like with BLM, there is the peaceful people, then those goofballs that show up later tearing everything up making it look like the whole context of what they are doing, something totally different that what it is..

There are those that walk the path and then there are the extremists.

So true. I was just reading a book about the beginnings of Christianity and how truly loving it was. Then those who follow totally turn it around to where it's a caricature of what it should be -- kind of like these evangelical dominionists taking power in our government.

* Sends a healing cocoon to surround Biden and keep him safe *

Reading the book i referenced earlier, but there's long talks on Youtube too:

The End of the Megamachine: A Brief History of a Failing Civilization

"The End of the Megamachine provides a uniquely comprehensive picture of the roots of the destructive forces that are threatening the future of humankind today. Spanning 5000 years of history, the book shows how the three tyrannies of militarized states, capital accumulation and ideological power have been steering both ecosystems and societies to the brink of collapse. With the growing instability of the Megamachine in the 21st century, new dangers open up as well as new possibilities for systemic change, to which everyone can contribute."

Edited November 10, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Janet Voxel]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

You've mentioned I felt triggered. Well yes, Janet, I was offended.
Do you think your response was a good one, to say "you need to stop looking down on people like that" when I described the ending of a friendship when my friend, Freddie, discovered I was involved in an Eastern practice which is very loving (Reiki). And not just ending the friendship because we'd grown in different directions as many friendships do, but instead suddenly believing I was part of something Satanic? Yes, I said he lacked critical thinking skills in his evaluation of the matter, of religions, but I never put him down. Other people might have laughed at him or put him down but I did neither. All I did was feel hurt. I'm accustomed to these religious types around here who freak out over Eastern religions and think their brand of Christianity is 'the one true way' and everybody else is evil and going to hell. And it IS a lack of critical thinking -- it's totally illogical to believe one would be so lucky to live in a part of the world that is blessed by God while all the rest of the world is evil and going to hell!

I wasn't going to respond to you, but what the hell. This'll be my only response to you on this too. Yes, I do think my response "You need to stop looking down on people like that" was a good one. Here's why: You have a habit of saying someone that disagrees with you has a lack of critical thinking skills or some other type of insult. When really, they just think differently than you. That's not necessarily a just you thing, its pretty common on this forum and it's pretty common in the world in general. Someone disagrees with you and backs it up and OMG! WHY DO YOU HATE MEEEEEEE?!!?!?! All I was trying to do is tell you that you have a habit of doing something that is just as uncool as them doing it to you.

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

And Janet, while I'm harping on you, what is this obsession you have with imagining these 70 plus million are one monolithic block? They aren't all this one type you like to focus on (those who lost jobs and are impoverished now, turning to Trump to save them). They do not consist only of those who live in the areas you saw on a drive through the Pennsylvania area but instead are composed of many types, and many are quite wealthy. Yet every time I tried to bring up another type of Trumper you parroted "it's not that, it's not that". You're exhibiting a severe lack of critical thinking here, unable to view the complexities of the situation and basing the entire problem according to your one experience (this infamous drive through the states).

Girl....I've been called a lot worse and by a lot better than you. If you paid attention to what I was saying, it was that people have many different ways of life in one country. So no, obviously they are not monolithic. You seem to understand that, but you seem to not be able to make the last step that, no...they still might not agree with you and you won't be able to persuade them otherwise and saying that they lack critical thinking is an insult and it's a huge reason why we're in this place right now. You may not think saying someone lacks critical thinking skills isn't an insult, but I'm telling you it is.

I was also pointing out to you there are a lot of places where, people literally have nothing. No jobs, no future, no hope and someone came along and played on that; Directed all their anger at something, at someone, at someone like you boiled it all down to identity, because well that's pretty much all they have left. You being insulting is just pouring gasoline on it.

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Thanks for reminding me and demonstrating through your lack of critical thinking that it's not just conservatives who have this problem with thinking critically, because if you want to chastise me for anything it should be that I tend to think it's more the conservatives who exhibit a lack in critical thinking skills and suffer from what is known colloquially and in therapy circles as 'stinkin thinkin'.
And btw, in my evaluation of you regarding critical thinking skills I am putting you down, because I expect more from you.

If you think that was me chastising you...oh boy. If I really chastised you, I'd be banned. I pointed out to you that when you say things like "Conservatives lack critical thinking skills" you're insulting people, that's it. I don't know if you noticed, but this forum has a pretty conservative bent, so by saying something like that, you're offending a lot of people. I told you that back in the spring when you were saying "Conservatives lack empathy." I told you to stop doing that too, I also told you not to play the insult game because you're going to lose because you look like a butt. You may not care and I'm pretty sure you're thinking "I don't care." That's ok too, but you really should take a minute to step outside of yourself and think about it from another perspective.

This past spring, it felt like it was you, me and Beth against the world. People I thought would never say certain things said them, people I thought would speak up didn't and somebody told me that when I got raped, don't ask them for help. You know what? I never once called anyone stupid, lacking of empathy or critical thinking skills, no matter how many times I sat at my desk and pinched the bridge of my nose. You know why? Because I felt like, insulting people will immediately make them dig in their heels and is counterproductive. Saying someone lacks critical thinking skills is admitting that they are unreachable and you're unwilling to reach out to meet them halfway.  That's not what you're trying to say is it?

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I wasn't going to respond to you, but what the hell. This'll be my only response to you on this too. Yes, I do think my response "You need to stop looking down on people like that" was a good one. Here's why: You have a habit of saying someone that disagrees with you has a lack of critical thinking skills or some other type of insult. When really, they just think differently than you. That's not necessarily a just you thing, its pretty common on this forum and it's pretty common in the world in general. Someone disagrees with you and backs it up and OMG! WHY DO YOU HATE MEEEEEEE?!!?!?! All I was trying to do is tell you that you have a habit of doing something that is just as uncool as them doing it to you.

 

THIS^^^

You do realize,, Janet that she's allowed but when the rest of us do it, it's bashing or bullying.  And why soo so many of us don't see the things she posts unless we have the misfortune of reading it as a quote.  

And to stay on topic.  I've stopped paying attention to what's being said.  All the news is doing is rehashing everything.  Someone please let me know when the final decision is in.

[Janet Voxel]

2 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

THIS^^^

You do realize,, Janet that she's allowed but when the rest of us do it, it's bashing or bullying.  And why soo so many of us don't see the things she posts unless we have the misfortune of reading it as a quote.  

And to stay on topic.  I've stopped paying attention to what's being said.  All the news is doing is rehashing everything.  Someone please let me know when the final decision is in.

Well, yeah...I mean Biden won. It'll drag on until December.

I was done with this last night.

[Gage Wirefly]

 

[Rowan Amore]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-only-fraud-in-the-2020-election-is-donald-j-trump/ar-BB1aSCnP?ocid=msedgntp

[Janet Voxel]

16 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

 

You left out the two seats that are Independant. One is Bernie Sanders, you know how that's going to go. The other is Angus King, who leans democrat. So it's basically 48 to 48. It all comes down to Georgia. 

See y'all in January!

[FairreLilette]

Social media is nuts.  I am so glad I chose to live a life without social media.

There are Democrats having to come out and speak against a rumor that Democrats are a demonic cult trying to defund the police.  

I always say this world is half nuts.  I'm so glad the other half is not.  < This is not a politic statement about parties regarding the world being half nuts, it is about everything in general.  Stuff I've personally been through; stuff my sister has been through...just everything.  

People are becoming so misinformed from social media and/or developing polemia or something.  

One thing I've come to realize is for some reason Biden didn't campaign for very long.  It seemed to me candidates used to campaign for a lot longer and we got to know them.  This year, it was a very short time to get to know Biden and Harris.  @real Donald Trump seems to keep everyone's attention that is for sure but I think Biden/Harris were far too under spoken and even in the shadows which I think is another reason so many voted for Trump.  

[Lyssa Greymoon]

TL;DR: No, hilariously no.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Janet Voxel said:

I pointed out to you that when you say things like "Conservatives lack critical thinking skills" you're insulting people, that's it.

I honestly believe that is her intent and she does not care.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Janet Voxel said:

You left out the two seats that are Independant. One is Bernie Sanders, you know how that's going to go. The other is Angus King, who leans democrat. So it's basically 48 to 48. It all comes down to Georgia. 

See y'all in January!

The count was 48 to 48 without Alaska, North Carolina or the 2 seats in Georgia. The 2 current Independents were already being lumped in with the Democrats because that is how they lean.

 

Alaska is not yet called, but definitely staying Republican.  North Carolina is now called for the Republican. 

That puts it at 50 to 48 with the 2 Georgia seats to be determined in January.  If the Democrats get both of those, then it will be 50-50 and the VP will decide any ties.  If the Republicans take one of the Georgia seats, they keep their majority with either 51-49 or 52-48.

Edited November 10, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell
fixed spelling error

[Janet Voxel]

2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

The count was 48 to 48 without Alaska, North Carolina or the 2 seats in Georgia. The 2 current Independents were already being lumped in with the Democrats because that is how they lean.

 

Alaska is not yet called, but definitely staying Republican.  North Carolina is now called for the Republican. 

That puts it at 50 to 48 with the 2 Georgia seats to be determined in January.  If the Democrats get both of those, then it will be 50-50 and the VP will decide any ties.  If the Republicans taken one of the Georgia seats, they keep their majority with either 51-49 or 52-48.

Actually, you're right! Thanks!

[Paul Hexem]

2 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

insulting people will immediately make them dig in their heels and is counterproductive

I said this on the forums once before, in a different thread.

The response was. "It's not an insult, it's fact!"

Seems to be a theme in these types of threads.

[LittleMe Jewell]

I definitely do not want to start another political thread, so I'm putting this here.  The various maps are quite interesting.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2020/11/10/election-maps-2020-america-county-results-more-voters/6226197002/

 

[SarahThe Wanderer]

My Neighbors😅 they blocked each other too!

 

 

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

I wasn't going to respond to you, but what the hell. This'll be my only response to you on this too. Yes, I do think my response "You need to stop looking down on people like that" was a good one. Here's why: You have a habit of saying someone that disagrees with you has a lack of critical thinking skills or some other type of insult. When really, they just think differently than you. That's not necessarily a just you thing, its pretty common on this forum and it's pretty common in the world in general. Someone disagrees with you and backs it up and OMG! WHY DO YOU HATE MEEEEEEE?!!?!?! All I was trying to do is tell you that you have a habit of doing something that is just as uncool as them doing it to you.

I don't hold it against you (your inability to respond to my pain about the ending of my friendship with Freddie and instead chastising me for what you perceived as an insult toward him), and my anger leaves quickly once expressed. It appears this is something that has been building up in you, and when you saw me 'do it again' you felt compelled to comment. What I don't understand is that I've seen many people being insulting toward the Trumpies, even you, so why is this chastisement directed at me? Everybody made jokes painting the Trumpies as foolish -- please, go back and look, it wasn't just me. Why do you only criticize me for it?
Even Maddie used the term. Did you see that Maddie used the term 'critical thinking' when describing how some farmers were unable to be logical. She said:
"I've had several conversations over the last few years with neighbors whose support of Trump actually surpasses the sort of religious fervor I've learned to avoid. I know that farmers and factory workers feel disenfranchised, but fear and anger seem to have shunted aside critical thinking."

I just want you to know that it's BECAUSE I recognized Freddie's inability to think logically regarding Eastern religions that I didn't express anger toward Freddie or even challenge him. I never said to him he wasn't thinking critically, but knowing this about him helped me accept it -- it gave me empathy. So my understanding of Psychological dynamics serves me well, and I had hoped on the forum by mentioning 'critical thinking' we could discuss the Psychological dynamics which underlie those Trump supporters who are so attached to their religion that they hurt others, or those who feel so challenged by the changes in society that they feel a need to punch down at POC and harm them in an attempt to make themselves feel better and higher in status, or those who actually feel a hierarchical society is the natural way a society should be ordered and thereby justify the suffering poor at the bottom (like Jordan Peterson, or some wealthy conservatives).
In other words, the words were descriptive and not meant to be insulting.

Not denying ever making fun of conservatives for sure! And I certainly did that before we started discussing the 70 million Trump supporters and how we might fix the problem. 

[Luna Bliss]

4 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

Girl....I've been called a lot worse and by a lot better than you. If you paid attention to what I was saying, it was that people have many different ways of life in one country. So no, obviously they are not monolithic. You seem to understand that, but you seem to not be able to make the last step that, no...they still might not agree with you and you won't be able to persuade them otherwise and saying that they lack critical thinking is an insult and it's a huge reason why we're in this place right now. You may not think saying someone lacks critical thinking skills isn't an insult, but I'm telling you it is.

I was also pointing out to you there are a lot of places where, people literally have nothing. No jobs, no future, no hope and someone came along and played on that; Directed all their anger at something, at someone, at someone like you boiled it all down to identity, because well that's pretty much all they have left. You being insulting is just pouring gasoline on it.

I agree I'm not too good at insulting, but I thought I did pretty good and it helped my anger -- I should at least get a B+ don't you think?  
But I never said this particular group you reference (people around PA who lost their jobs) lacked critical thinking skills that I remember (it was kinda crazy during the election so I don't have complete certainty and only know how I truly feel about this).  I've only said my former friend, Freddie, lacked critical thinking skills, and only regarding his conception of religion. 

I guess we'll just have to disagree about using the term 'critical thinking' because I don't think when discussing a pattern from more of a distance it's wrong to describe what the problem is -- call a space a spade -- when someone is not being logical they are lacking critical thinking skills. 
Now telling that to someone, to their face, calling them a name, is insulting yes. Better to just point out what is not logical if whatever is illogical is preventing problem solving.
However, I won't deny that SOME of these Trumpies appear to be bat****crazy!

Edited November 10, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

If you think that was me chastising you...oh boy. If I really chastised you, I'd be banned. I pointed out to you that when you say things like "Conservatives lack critical thinking skills" you're insulting people, that's it. I don't know if you noticed, but this forum has a pretty conservative bent, so by saying something like that, you're offending a lot of people. I told you that back in the spring when you were saying "Conservatives lack empathy." I told you to stop doing that too, I also told you not to play the insult game because you're going to lose because you look like a butt. You may not care and I'm pretty sure you're thinking "I don't care." That's ok too, but you really should take a minute to step outside of yourself and think about it from another perspective.

This past spring, it felt like it was you, me and Beth against the world. People I thought would never say certain things said them, people I thought would speak up didn't and somebody told me that when I got raped, don't ask them for help. You know what? I never once called anyone stupid, lacking of empathy or critical thinking skills, no matter how many times I sat at my desk and pinched the bridge of my nose. You know why? Because I felt like, insulting people will immediately make them dig in their heels and is counterproductive. Saying someone lacks critical thinking skills is admitting that they are unreachable and you're unwilling to reach out to meet them halfway.  That's not what you're trying to say is it?

I remember that time fondly -- you, me, Beth, and lets not forget Pussycat, fighting for the BLM cause against the world, and it created a strong bond with all of you. Though it was very stressful and I would not want to repeat it!

I don't remember ever saying that "conservatives lack critical thinking skills", although as per our recent discussion I do believe they lack them more than liberals do. There's a reason for that, and it's because scientific tests demonstrate it via measuring fear responses (when we don't manage fear as well we tend to lose our logic more easily because we think in black & white in an effort to simplify an overwhelming reality, dig in our heels during problem solving, and more easily deny logic). Basically we try to simplify problems in a search for safety. Once again, not saying liberals don't do that, and not saying I never do -- I'm only saying that conservatives are more prone to this type of thinking.

There are real Psychological differences between liberals and conservatives, though of course all characteristics don't reside exclusively on either side.  All this has been scientifically measured, and I do trust scientific studies.
'Empathy' is another measured characteristic, and conservatives have less of it -- they have trouble putting themselves in other peoples places.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Janet Voxel]

Girl....

[Luna Bliss]

@Janet Voxel

I get a sense, Janet, that you're pretty sick of all this conflict -- hence the "see you in January" message to the forum. I am too -- 2020 has been one crisis after another, and sometimes the election does feel like the last straw. It's only been 3 days since we got the results though, and for me it's still time to rejoice and sometimes insult the side that almost ruined our country! God knows you've insulted the Trumpies enough -- I just read back and you have numerous posts making fun of them too.

A lot of this is a matter of timing -- it was a short time ago that we learned we had a chance of escaping one of the biggest disasters this country has ever known. It's a time of rejoicing these creeps didn't take over our world -- not a time to sympathize with them for God's sake. People should be allowed to express their pain and anger, yet here we had people coming in and pointing out some virtues of Trump and putting down Biden....what the??? Was I seeing a version of Stockholm syndrome where people get cozy with the captor in order to cope with the total insanity our world had turned into??  lol  
I still want to celebrate, post photos of Kamala, and tell those creeps we beat them and they don't get to turn America into a fascist country!

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Janet Voxel said:

Girl....

hey girl

[Luna Bliss]

[Luna Bliss]