Bellisseria and Breedables

[Vega Firelyte]

Are there any rules or regulations about having breedables in Bellisseria?  Breedables can be quite laggy and I have seen a few regions where there are people with a high number of breedables out, with the region feeling a bit sluggish when you are in it.  Are they covered in the covenant?  Is there a limit to how many you can have out?  

Edited May 26, 2020 by Vega Firelyte
Added the last question

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

19 minutes ago, Vega Firelyte said:

Are there any rules or regulations about having breedables in Bellisseria?  Breedables can be quite laggy and I have seen a few regions where there are people with a high number of breedables out, with the region feeling a bit sluggish when you are in it.  Are they covered in the covenant?  Is there a limit to how many you can have out?  

 I just gave the covenant a quick look, and didn't see anything directly addressing breedables or abuse of region resources (which is a reason to AR someone, whether or not it's in the covenant) There is this, though:  "*Activities and items that could be construed by Linden Lab as commercial and for profit are not permitted in the residential homes and houseboats in Bellisseria."

ETA: I'd AR under abuse of resources, which doesn't require that there be commercial activity (since who knows what the point is of having so many animals.)

Edited May 26, 2020 by Sylvia Tamalyn

[LittleMe Jewell]

22 minutes ago, Vega Firelyte said:

Are there any rules or regulations about having breedables in Bellisseria?  Breedables can be quite laggy and I have seen a few regions where there are people with a high number of breedables out, with the region feeling a bit sluggish when you are in it.  Are they covered in the covenant?  Is there a limit to how many you can have out?  

Many of the Linden Home regions are laggy, primarily due to all of the textures and bad mesh that folks rez.  If the Breedables are causing issues, it would likely be with the 'Script time' on the regions.  If you think the breedables are negatively impact the overall performance of the region, then definitely submit an AR to see what LL thinks.  As Sylvia mentioned, I'd go with the 'abuse of resources' category.

[Evangeline Ling]

3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Many of the Linden Home regions are laggy, primarily due to all of the textures and bad mesh that folks rez.  If the Breedables are causing issues, it would likely be with the 'Script time' on the regions.  If you think the breedables are negatively impact the overall performance of the region, then definitely submit an AR to see what LL thinks.  As Sylvia mentioned, I'd go with the 'abuse of resources' category.

I have never seen "abuse of resources" as a category in the Object or Person AR choices.  Closest I have seen is "Object Littering"...  Most of the time when i have filed ARs i have to file them under something that does not really describe the offense because the categories are mostly old and have not been updated in a long time.  Seems to me they need a special section for the Linden Homes covenant issues.

[LittleMe Jewell]

5 minutes ago, Evangeline Ling said:

I have never seen "abuse of resources" as a category in the Object or Person AR choices.  Closest I have seen is "Object Littering"...  Most of the time when i have filed ARs i have to file them under something that does not really describe the offense because the categories are mostly old and have not been updated in a long time.  Seems to me they need a special section for the Linden Homes covenant issues.

I've never tried to use that category - just heard people reference it.  Interesting that there isn't such a category, though it does not really surprise me.  

The categories -- for Abuse Reports, MP item flagging, and Support tickets -- all need a major revamp.

[Chic Aeon]

19 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I've never tried to use that category - just heard people reference it.  Interesting that there isn't such a category, though it does not really surprise me.  

The categories -- for Abuse Reports, MP item flagging, and Support tickets -- all need a major revamp.

There WAS a category about using too much of the sims resources. I have used it in the past. I don't remember "abuse" being in the category; it was more like using a disproportionate amount of the regions resources. NOW it looks like it would be under scripting.

 

And of course the best way to find out if something is in the covenant is to go and read it LOL.  Solves all issues.  

 

[animats]

If you want to run breedables, buy some abandoned land in Gaeta. Nobody goes there. Build a feedlot.

[Vega Firelyte]

18 hours ago, animats said:

If you want to run breedables, buy some abandoned land in Gaeta. Nobody goes there. Build a feedlot.

I don't but there is a neighbor with 8 breedables out in their yard.  I'll send your suggestion to that person, @animats

[Vega Firelyte]

19 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

There WAS a category about using too much of the sims resources. I have used it in the past. I don't remember "abuse" being in the category; it was more like using a disproportionate amount of the regions resources. NOW it looks like it would be under scripting.

 

And of course the best way to find out if something is in the covenant is to go and read it LOL.  Solves all issues.  

 

I recall that option.  Sadly, when they updated the complaint list, different things were dropped and that was one of them.  As for the covenant, I did go over it several times and it appears that this subject was not covered in there.  I think my next step will have to be in the form of going to a Linden meeting and asking them directly, over there.  Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions in this matter.  You have been helpful.

[Patch Linden]

We haven't put a hard number on it (yet) because we don't think we've seen a whole bunch of abuse of resources related to this through reporting.  If we do see that becoming a more frequently reported issue, then we would officiate it through the covenant.  Right now, we have generally made the suggestion of no more then a couple should be out at any one-time.

[LittleMe Jewell]

I don't know much about the prim/mesh babies, but aren't they basically the same thing as a breedable?  They are scripted, likely with about as much scripting or more than some of the animals.  I know a few people that do have more than a couple of them babies - though I don't think they leave them out all the time.

Edited May 27, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell
added comment

[Marianne Little]

I would suggest that they made a simple sky platform over the 2000 m limit and put them there. How does that work for lag and use of region resources?

(Edit: Not the babies, but the animals. He he)

Edited May 27, 2020 by Marianne Little

[LittleMe Jewell]

Just now, Marianne Little said:

I would suggest that they made a simple sky platform over the 2000 m limit and put them there. How does that work for lag and use of region resources?

My understanding of the breedable issue is primarily script time - and that will be an issue in the region no matter what height they are at.

Someone once also mentioned a physics issue -- something about the problems caused when an animal is roaming and constantly crashing into things.  I don't have a clue on that part.

[Marianne Little]

They can stop the animals from roaming, and they still live and breed?

I think Patch's thumb-rule of 2 sounds fine. 8 animals the same time sounds like using too many scripts. No one likes backyard breeders and puppy mills in RL either, yes?

[Patch Linden]

It's a combination of scripts and physics that will cause performance issues.  They physics issues can happen on terrain or objects (prim platform, etc).

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

16 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I don't know much about the prim/mesh babies, but aren't they basically the same thing as a breedable?  They are scripted, likely with about as much scripting or more than some of the animals.  I know a few people that do have more than a couple of them babies - though I don't think they leave them out all the time.

The good news about the babies is that they are so high in LI that no one can rez more than a couple of them on a 1024 parcel. 😛 

ETA: Maybe three of them, but then you couldn't have any furniture!

Edited May 27, 2020 by Sylvia Tamalyn

[Elena Blossom]

1 hour ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

The good news about the babies is that they are so high in LI that no one can rez more than a couple of them on a 1024 parcel. 😛 

ETA: Maybe three of them, but then you couldn't have any furniture!

For a moment I thought you were going to say 'the good news about the babies is that they will grow up and leave home....'

[Nika Talaj]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I don't know much about the prim/mesh babies, but aren't they basically the same thing as a breedable? 

In terms of script load, I would guess that a baby is generally about the same as a breedable.  I really REALLY hope there are no breedable mesh babies!  Not only a subtly disturbing idea, but I'm sure they would end up being trafficked to sexbot runners!  Oh, the horror!

Have you ever visited a sexbot place?  20 or so bots standing around in cubicles. I was testing a visitor counter once, and my abstract alt (looks like a bouncing ball) irritated a sexbot owner by TPing in, ignoring blandishments completely, staying for 20 seconds, and leaving over and over again while I tested running out of memory.  Never did see anyone else there, other than the bots. 

Empirically speaking, I've always regarded the physics of all the collisions when people leave their pets to wander inside a home to be more region-crippling than the script load.  Script overload really only affects other scripts, but it always seemed to me that enough collisions can tank region FPS pretty quickly, making movement and rezzing things less than delightful.  Maybe things have changed since I formed those impressions.

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

21 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

I really REALLY hope there are no breedable mesh babies!

Yikes, I hope not.  I meant 'like breedables' in the sense of the amount of script time they possibly eat up.

Patch does confirm that the physics are as much of a problem as the scripts.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

41 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

Empirically speaking, I've always regarded the physics of all the collisions when people leave their pets to wander inside a home to be more region-crippling than the script load.  Script overload really only affects other scripts, but it always seemed to me that enough collisions can tank region FPS pretty quickly, making movement and rezzing things less than delightful.  Maybe things have changed since I formed those impressions.

That's always been my understanding as well, that it's excessive collisions that really drag a region to a halt. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

One of the things I liked about the Jian dog that I rezzed was that I could set him as phantom so that he'd just walk through everything.  He had quite a bit of scripting and would go through a variety of poses while wandering around, but the phantom setting prevented the collisions.

[Polenth Yue]

Not all pets are equal when it comes to physics load. It's not unusual for wander pets to be set to phantom and not use physics to move in any way. Some animals also appear to be moving, but it's a trick. Butterflies might be a texture animation. Rotating animals are often only rotating in your client.

Breedables have a tendency to be designed as utter lag buckets, but it would be possible to design them to be less resource intensive. And it doesn't mean that anything that looks like an animal and moves is using a lot of resources.

[animats]

4 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

Breedables have a tendency to be designed as utter lag buckets

Yes, that's puzzled me. Many of them are just standing around. What are they doing inside that uses resources? Frantically communicating with their HQ?

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

13 minutes ago, animats said:

Yes, that's puzzled me. Many of them are just standing around. What are they doing inside that uses resources? Frantically communicating with their HQ?

That's probably true, since they have to be fed and stuff so they don't "die". I guess they are constantly being monitored by some home base thing in case they need to be changed to "dead" or "pregnant" or whatever. 

[steeljane42]

6 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

In terms of script load, I would guess that a baby is generally about the same as a breedable

Some are way way worse than breedables, only difference is that people don't try to rezz hundreds of them.

I had a "pleasure" to endure some npc baby loving "family" living in the same region a long while ago. I'm not sure if all of them are like that, or if something changed since then (1.5 years or so passed since those times), but it was one of big and popular brands.

Script info: '*nameoflagbabymonster*': [134/161] running scripts, 10304 KB allowed memory size limit, 0.288141 ms of CPU time consumed.

They had 10 of them, rezzed 24/7. That's 2.8ms of script time and 1340 (or 1610, if they sometimes activated extra ones for some functions, I have no idea about their functionality) scripts just on "that". Assuming that region is well used and probably already hovers around 50-60% scripts run in best case and below 40% in worst, such amount of extra scripts will bring it down to "quite slow" levels.