An Open Letter to LL from Content Creators

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Blush Bravin said:

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I never assumed they were trying to speak for all of us -- it seems to me they are speaking for those who chose to sign the petition.

Look back to the first time this was posted. The letter has not changed. It was a blanket statement then as it is today. It's cowardice. At the very least the person who started this should have done so on their main account and provided a link that shows the names of those signing the petition. When I clicked on the link there was no visible list of those signing. 

You call it cowardice, but I call it fear of losing valuable income.

[Blush Bravin]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

You call it cowardice, but I call it fear of losing valuable income.

BS

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Blush Bravin said:

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

You call it cowardice, but I call it fear of losing valuable income.

BS

I know of numerous creators who don't post on the forum due to fears of suspension. Quite a few use alts to post here as well.

[Beth Macbain]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Is there not a list of signatories?

The claim of 3000+ signatures is a rather empty and suspect one if there is not. What's the point of "signing" anonymously?

Only the people who chose to have their signature and comments made public, and it's pretty clear from reading those comments that a lot of people didn't read that gargantuan wall of text and didn't really understand what they were signing. 

[Theresa Tennyson]

19 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I've largely stayed out of this debate because I've never been a merchant or creator, nor even ever had a Premium account (though I have bought Ls). But, much as I think it's fine to make suggestions and ask for dialogue, something about the overly emotive "we need to feed our children" tone of this letter doesn't quite sit right with me. I can't quite explain it.
 

My biggest problem with the drama about increasing the cash-out percentage is many of the llamas are completely ignoring the reduction in land cost that took place at the same time. If they said, "I did the math and it turns out this hurts me as a net result because of these figures," I'd be a lot more inclined to listen.

As it is, reducing land cost is a reduction in the fixed cost to a merchant which they will need to pay every month whether they sell 1 widget or 1000 widgets. Meanwhile the increase is going to be almost nothing in the month when they sell 1 widget and they'll still be getting 95% of the income for a 1000-widget month.

[Blush Bravin]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I know of numerous creators who don't post on the forum due to fears of suspension. Quite a few use alts to post here as well.

I will admit that I don't understand that kind of thinking. I won't let fear dictate to me how I live my life or what I say. If I believe something I am going to shout it from the rooftop regardless of the repercussions.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Beth Macbain said:

Only the people who chose to have their signature and comments made public, and it's pretty clear from reading those comments that a lot of people didn't read that gargantuan wall of text and didn't really understand what they were signing. 

i suspect, to be frank, that's often the case with petitions and open letters.

I don't know if this "sneaky" or "cowardly" or "dishonest," but it is, at the least, ineffective. The petition or open letter or whatever it is won't have credibility until it has identifiable, recognizable, and accountable spokespeople for it. I'm not going to sign anything unless I have a pretty clear idea about where's it coming from, and who might be involved.

[Paul Hexem]

A 2 day old anonymous account posting an anonymous link to a third party site with anonymous supporters?

Listen, the Golden Gate Bridge is for sale. PM me your bank account details, I'll get it for you cheap. You'll be able to sell it at a profit, honest. 

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I know of numerous creators who don't post on the forum due to fears of suspension. Quite a few use alts to post here as well.

I will admit that I don't understand that kind of thinking. I won't let fear dictate to me how I live my life or what I say. If I believe something I am going to shout it from the rooftop regardless of the repercussions.

Yes, but you aren't so dependent on the income you make here.  This can make a resident think twice about biting the hand that feeds....the hand that has all the power.  Personally I've experienced LL being willing to hear negative feedback as long as it's done respectfully, but many are afraid to speak up and may not have a strong sense of self as you do.

* A petition delivered to Ebbe seems like pretty serious stuff!

Edited June 25, 2019 by Luna Bliss

[Selene Gregoire]

26 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Is there not a list of signatories?

The claim of 3000+ signatures is a rather empty and suspect one if there is not. What's the point of "signing" anonymously?

Not a list per se but you can see some of the names by expanding the comments. Not sure if it will let you go through all of them. Having never started an online petition, I don't know if it is an option that can be enabled or not. Or maybe you just have to be logged in. I'm wondering if I can unsign it now so I can go back to slinking in the dark corners.

[Blush Bravin]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, but you aren't so dependent on the income you make here.

Considering, as I've said before, that I use my SL income for food and utilities, I think I'm pretty dependent on this income. The difference is that I don't think LL owes me a living. I have the choice to find other employment if I can't make enough here to cover my needs. I also believe that it's best for the lab to do what is best for LL and that in turn will mean that my income here is more secure. I think the biggest difference in my outlook is that I believe LL knows what they are doing and I trust them.

[Janet Voxel]

I’m not sure about the petition, but LL had a thread about the changes. It was a thread that they left open an uncomfortably extended amount of time. Some creators did voice their concerns and a couple of Lindens did participate in it.

I’m not going to say they aren’t paying attention here, but I agree this probably isn’t the most effective way to go about it. Especially, since the arguments put forth are the same arguments that were put forth in the “official” thread a couple of weeks ago.

[Coffee Pancake]

37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I know of numerous creators who don't post on the forum due to fears of suspension. .....

Yup, this is very true.

[Luna Bliss]

14 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Considering, as I've said before, that I use my SL income for food and utilities, I think I'm pretty dependent on this income. The difference is that I don't think LL owes me a living. I have the choice to find other employment if I can't make enough here to cover my needs. I also believe that it's best for the lab to do what is best for LL and that in turn will mean that my income here is more secure. I think the biggest difference in my outlook is that I believe LL knows what they are doing and I trust them.

You seem to be conflating people asking for a dialogue with LL and expressing how increases in fees affects them with people who have a 'the world owes me everything' mentality. That's pretty insulting to these people you are trashing.
I agree it's best for the lab to do what's good for the health of SL overall -- the thing is that they don't know themselves and is why they're proceeding slowly and testing it out. So how can you know this move is a good one when they don't even know?
I don't believe anybody, including LL,always knows what they are doing -- and I don't expect them to! It's not like there's a manual for our unique virtual world they can refer to. They have to experiment. And those merchants who are part of this experiment need to voice how its affecting them, because they are as vital to health of SL as any other resident here.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, CoffeeDujour said:

41 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I know of numerous creators who don't post on the forum due to fears of suspension. .....

Yup, this is very true.

 

[Blush Bravin]

59 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Had the person writing the letter signed the letter personally rather than trying to speak for all of us and had the respondents not signed the petition anonymously I wouldn't have taken issue with this. While I don't agree with many of the arguments I support anyone's right to voice their concerns and to ask others to sign in support of those concerns. The problem is the cowardice behind this and the audacity to try and make it sound as though all creators support the argument.

 

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You seem to be conflating people asking for a dialogue with LL and expressing how increases in fees affects them with people who have a 'the world owes me everything' mentality. That's pretty insulting to these people you are trashing.

Need I refresh your memory. I have no issue with them presenting their concerns as I stated an hour ago. My problem is with how they are presenting it.

34 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, but you aren't so dependent on the income you make here.  This can make a resident think twice about biting the hand that feeds....the hand that has all the power. 

My response was directly to this accusation you made that I somehow don't need my income the way others do and therefore I can be braver than the rest. 

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I agree it's best for the lab to do what's good for the health of SL overall -- the thing is that they don't know themselves and is why they're proceeding slowly and testing it out. So how can you know this move is a good one when they don't even know?
I don't believe anybody, including LL,always knows what they are doing -- and I don't expect them to! It's not like there's a manual for our unique virtual world they can refer to. They have to experiment. And those merchants who are part of this experiment need to voice how its affecting them, because they are as vital to health of SL as any other resident here.

And as I stated before this is the biggest reason why my opinion is different than yours. I've always been a glass is half full kind of person. I've always been one to trust someone until they give me reason not to trust. In my 15 years in Second Life I've not been given a reason not to trust. Oh I know they make mistakes, but then we all do. But they correct those mistakes and sometimes IMO the mistakes happen because they care too much about keeping everyone happy. But in even that I will continue to trust them to do the best for the company and the community.

And with that, I'm not going to respond to any more of your comments as I consider it pointless. 

[Beth Macbain]

Why on earth did it take 1,125 words to ask for a dialogue with LL if that's the gist of this petition?

One reason could be that whoever wrote it is just a wordy person.

A more sinister reason could be they wanted it to be so long and drab knowing that most people would just sign because their favorite designer asked them to and not read what they were actually signing. 

If it were more transparent and concise, I would give this petition more weight. I get that the creators want to be heard. 

This, however, reads more like a heavy-handed bullying tactic. 

[Selene Gregoire]

What is best for a company isn't always what is best for the customers. And vice versa.

[Janet Voxel]

2 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Why on earth did it take 1,125 words to ask for a dialogue with LL if that's the gist of this petition?

One reason could be that whoever wrote it is just a wordy person.

A more sinister reason could be they wanted it to be so long and drab knowing that most people would just sign because their favorite designer asked them to and not read what they were actually signing. 

If it were more transparent and concise, I would give this petition more weight. I get that the creators want to be heard. 

This, however, reads more like a heavy-handed bullying tactic. 

I’m pretty sure some people were going into group chats and putting it out there that this was happening and also “here sign this petition we wrote up real quick *insert link*”

I got so tired of it here, I just closed the box when I saw it in world. I’m sure they got a lot of people to sign it that way.

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

What is best for a company isn't always what is best for the customers. And vice versa.

If the customer wants to continue doing business with the company they better hope the company does what's best for the company or that company will cease to exist. That's not good for the customer either.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[Polenth Yue]

It'd seem that people can't sign the petition in full knowledge without having access to the "long list of innovative and insightful ideas of how Linden Lab might increase profits without relying on land and without creators having to bear such a severe financial burden". The signers might not agree with the ideas. I've seen ideas in the other threads on this that I think would be many times worse.

Anyway, as it seems it needs to be said, I don't hate people for disagreeing with me on the forum about Second Life. I'll still buy things from them and talk to them. Avoiding is only if people cross the line into harassment, bullying, racism or something like that. Differing views on fee structures is not at that level. I'm sure I'm not the only one who rolls that way, so don't panic too much that everyone will boycott your store forever for having an opinion on it.

[AyelaNewLife]

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

There are lots of creators who cash out a hundred or so, and they depend on these earnings to fund their SL and pay a RL bill or two. I think these are the people we need to be most concerned about in terms of driving them away via cutting into their cashouts too much.

If they're cashing out a hundred or so a month/year, then they're losing out on a sandwich per cashout with this change.

They'll manage.

Edited June 25, 2019 by AyelaNewLife

[Luna Bliss]

43 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

There are lots of creators who cash out a hundred or so, and they depend on these earnings to fund their SL and pay a RL bill or two. I think these are the people we need to be most concerned about in terms of driving them away via cutting into their cashouts too much.

If they're cashing out a hundred or so a month/year, then they're losing out on a sandwich per cashout with this change.

They'll manage.

True, Ayela, the recent 2.5% increase might only be a sandwich. What I'm concerned about however is a pattern of fee increases, and statements of how unfair it is to LL that other games take a 30% cut while LL takes much less. Because SL differs from other games in major ways we could be comparing apples to oranges, and so increasing cashout fees could be problematic for SL.

[AyelaNewLife]

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

True, Ayela, the recent 2.5% increase might only be a sandwich. What I'm concerned about however is a pattern of fee increases, and statements of how unfair it is to LL that other games take a 30% cut while LL takes much less. Because SL differs from other games in major ways we could be comparing apples to oranges, and so increasing cashout fees could be problematic for SL.

While I see your point, and agree with it to an extent, I'd say that LL aren't just saying "Ebbe needs a new yacht, lets raise some fees". They're all balancing out tier reductions, as a way of shifting the balance of their own income, not just increasing it. That factor both provides a soft cap to the fee increases they'll consider, and ensures that every increase comes with a semi-related decrease which will impact the budget of many (but certainly not all) creators. 

And yeah, a 30% processing fee is not really justifiable.

[Sammy Huntsman]

14 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

While I see your point, and agree with it to an extent, I'd say that LL aren't just saying "Ebbe needs a new yacht, lets raise some fees". They're all balancing out tier reductions, as a way of shifting the balance of their own income, not just increasing it. That factor both provides a soft cap to the fee increases they'll consider, and ensures that every increase comes with a semi-related decrease which will impact the budget of many (but certainly not all) creators. 

And yeah, a 30% processing fee is not really justifiable.

I think the people who wrote, were more concerned about their livelihoods. Some people, not just creators have made a living on the profits they make in SL. It's just like people with YouTube or any other website or platform or game, that allows people to cashout their earnings. I feel bad for these people, so yeah 5% is not that much, but it's per every Linden Dollar exchanged. So that adds up.