How would you make premium accounts more appealing?

[Erwin Solo]

On 6/4/2019 at 7:58 PM, Lucia Nightfire said:

Before LL gives us more prims, they need to implement a fair script resource policy that prevents the scripts of any one land owner's rezzed content or of their guests from consuming more available script time than the percentage of land owned in the region.

Amen to that.  Script time, and physics time, is the precious resource. We need script throttling on a per-parcel basis for mainland to be useful again. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

5 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

 You won't encounter newbies

Except for the few that bought Premium right away, or almost right away.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Erwin Solo said:

Amen to that.  Script time, and physics time, is the precious resource. We need script throttling on a per-parcel basis for mainland to be useful again. 

You absolutely do not want this. You might think you do, but you don't. 

Script performance would be universally poor, and wouldn't need specialist tools, script stats and a few overly worried folk who take such issues weirdly serious.

There are a lot of other performance options to explore before bringing the "fairness hammer" down on everyone's heads. Lets wait and see what the cloud move does first.

 

[Erwin Solo]

20 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

You absolutely do not want this. You might think you do, but you don't. 

Yeah, guess I don't know.  I've got mainland on one of the 2002 SIMs with virtually no scripts, and so it's not a problem.  I do remember a dance club set up at the 4 corners of 4 regions, that used up all the script power of all four regions, but that was long ago. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Erwin Solo
typo fix: changed an "and" to an "at"

[Erwin Solo]

1 minute ago, Erwin Solo said:

Yeah, guess I don't know.  I've got mainland on one of the 2002 SIMs with virtually no scripts, and so it's not a problem.  I do remember a dance club set up at the 4 corners of 4 regions, that used up all the script power of all four regions, but that was long ago. 

Oh, yeah.  You see that 4-corners configuration at some of the dance clubs at SL16B.  So, it is still a thing. 

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Erwin Solo said:

Yeah, guess I don't know.  I've got mainland on one of the 2002 SIMs with virtually no scripts, and so it's not a problem.  I do remember a dance club set up and the 4 corners of 4 regions, that used up all the script power of all four regions, but that was long ago. 

SL is built on the premise that there is chunk of shared capacity that gets almost entirely devoted to the few people accessing it right now. That model breaks when a location is running 24/7 like a club as they can occupy the entire pool without needing to pay for it all.

I'd like to see a cap on the amount of daily traffic a parcel can support, when that cap is hit, the parcel is no entry to all but the owner till the next day. Basing this cap on region capacity divided by parcel sqm, with the threshold set high enough that it only practically impacts people who abuse the system with clubs and bot farms on relatively tiny parcels.

Oh, and just because your region was born way back in 2002 doesn't mean it's still running on the same old hardware .. that 2002 server is probably propping a door open somewhere (or in the living room of someone like me who has a thing for maxed out vintage hardware).

[Adam Spark]

36 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Except for the few that bought Premium right away, or almost right away.

True, but most of those are probably either going to be alt or new accounts of those who have been around, people who know a bit more about the grid going in, soak it up faster, or just in general are less likely to cause problems typically (if unfortunately) associated with newbies.

[Erwin Solo]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Oh, and just because your region was born way back in 2002 doesn't mean it's still running on the same old hardware .. that 2002 server is probably propping a door open somewhere (or in the living room of someone like me who has a thing for maxed out vintage hardware).

Agreed. We end up on some other virtual server with every restart these days. 

[Mercedes Avon]

14 hours ago, Osa Engawa said:

So if you want Premium to be more attractive, you need to make land more attractive. I’ve seen a lot of talk about more land, cheaper land, more LI, etc., but none of that matters if the land sucks and let’s be really clear that by almost any standard most of the mainland absolutely sucks. More of what sucks? It sucks, but at least it’s cheaper and you can put more stuff on it? No thanks. I’d go Premium for better land.

THIS!

I was premium for years. I owned Mainland but I eventually sold it all because it literally drove me nuts. The mainland land textures are ugly, and there was very little you could do with it as far as raising or lowering it (and I understand why but it sucks). You're a slave to your neighbors and the lands look like SL 2009; Ugly prim builds with full bright on, big 2D walls with a flat tree texture and platforms and sky-boxes floating low and all visible.  I can't imagining ever PAYING again to live there. Not to mentioned I think the mainland buying and selling process needs to be streamlined so it's easier.

What I DO like is premium members priority into busier sims. That is a nice perk.

The things I would pay premium for are:

1. - Free Mesh and texture uploads
2. - Give premium members the ability to own smallish sims. 8096 maybe and no neighbors. I would be in Heaven.
3. - The ability to transfer lindens and send IMs from your Dashboard.
4. - Multiple Partners.
5. - Last names (I will believe it when I see it).

[Erwin Solo]

On 6/1/2019 at 2:59 PM, Erwin Solo said:

Oh, and I would like Premium Landing Points just like we have Premium Sandboxes.

The current landing points are pretty scuzzy; the place where I end up if my Region is restarting.

The problem with the current landing points, where I land when I happen to log in when my region is restarting, is that there are not people.  They are all bots.  The bots from the professional bot companies only hang around per LL's 10 minute spec.  But the self hosted bots hang around forever, until the hosting typist gets home from work and figures out what happened.  Then there are the the pan handlers.  

Few would buy a premium membership for their bot, so with Premium Landing Points we would be much more likely to actually meet real people.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Erwin Solo said:

The problem with the current landing points, where I land when I happen to log in when my region is restarting, is that there are not people.  They are all bots.  The bots from the professional bot companies only hang around per LL's 10 minute spec.  But the self hosted bots hang around forever, until the hosting typist gets home from work and figures out what happened.  Then there are the the pan handlers.  

Few would buy a premium membership for their bot, so with Premium Landing Points we would be much more likely to actually meet real people.

I'm really sympathetic with the idea that finding ways to meet people, form friendships, and build community should be a priority. This is the biggest thing they've done right with Bellissaria.

But what you're proposing here filters out bots by also excluding, what, 80%-90% of the résident population of SL? Yes, you'll meet fewer bots. But you'll also meet fewer people generally, and a much more restrictive subset of the entire population.

Now, I don't know, maybe you only want to meet Premium members? I guess that's your call, but filtering out all of "X" because "X" includes a small subset of "undesireables" is a pretty pernicious mode of thinking, and in practice if not by intent, rather elitist.

And honestly, how useful are landing points as social spots? I hardly ever make friends with the people who suddenly materialize on my head.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Blush Bravin]

4 hours ago, Erwin Solo said:

where I land when I happen to log in when my region is restarting,

The first thing I do when being redirected is to hit the fly button and then the tp button. I NEVER stick around to even see who is there. 

[Kyrah Abattoir]

12 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

You absolutely do not want this. You might think you do, but you don't. 

Script performance would be universally poor, and wouldn't need specialist tools, script stats and a few overly worried folk who take such issues weirdly serious.

There are a lot of other performance options to explore before bringing the "fairness hammer" down on everyone's heads. Lets wait and see what the cloud move does first.

 

There should at least be something along the line of "region pool" vs "visitor pool" or some way to decide which one takes priority.

[KanryDrago]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm really sympathetic with the idea that finding ways to meet people, form friendships, and build community should be a priority. This is the biggest thing they've done right with Bellissaria.

But what you're proposing here filters out bots by also excluding, what, 80%-90% of the résident population of SL? Yes, you'll meet fewer bots. But you'll also meet fewer people generally, and a much more restrictive subset of the entire population.

Now, I don't know, maybe you only want to meet Premium members? I guess that's your call, but filtering out all of "X" because "X" includes a small subset of "undesireables" is a pretty pernicious mode of thinking, and in practice if not by intent, rather elitist.

And honestly, how useful are landing points as social spots? I hardly ever make friends with the people who suddenly materialize on my head.

What are these landing spots? I dont think I have ever been to one. When the sim restart warning comes I either tp elsewhere or log out

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, KanryDrago said:

What are these landing spots? I dont think I have ever been to one. When the sim restart warning comes I either tp elsewhere or log out

Aren't they in a standard position in every sim? It's been a while since this happened to me, although I've been bounced to a hub a few times recently.

[LittleMe Jewell]

12 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

What are these landing spots? I dont think I have ever been to one. When the sim restart warning comes I either tp elsewhere or log out

They are generic areas, typically with lots of non-responsive folks (likely bots) or newbies that are unsure of how they got there and thus, what to do next.  

If you log in at the moment that your home or whatever location you are logging to is being restarted, then you get redirected to one of those hubs. Ditto, if you happen to be AFK for a bit and miss the notice that the region you are in is going to restart.

[LittleMe Jewell]

14 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Aren't they in a standard position in every sim? It's been a while since this happened to me, although I've been bounced to a hub a few times recently.

Every sim region does not have them.  They are scattered around the grid and I think you typically get sent to the one that is closet to where you are when your location restarts. Or closest to whatever location you were trying to log into, if that region is being restarted.

Edited June 29, 2019 by LittleMe Jewell

[Coffee Pancake]

5 hours ago, Erwin Solo said:

Few would buy a premium membership for their bot, so with Premium Landing Points we would be much more likely to actually meet real people.

Why wouldn't they? Stacking premiums is still the cheapest way to group own a moderate amount of land. Some land companies will pay for excess teir, that plus the stipend makes it profitable even after the price increases.

[Parhelion Palou]

They're the old info hubs, such as Pooley, Ahern, Bear, Wengen and many others  -- I usually end up at an adult one for some reason. I have 'fly on teleport' set, so I fly up 100 meters then teleport to someplace useful.

 

 

[Fox Wijaya]

25 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

What are these landing spots?

mostly places where you wouldn't even send a enemy .. 

[Erwin Solo]

10 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

They're the old info hubs, such as Pooley, Ahern, Bear, Wengen and many others  -- I usually end up at an adult one for some reason. I have 'fly on teleport' set, so I fly up 100 meters then teleport to someplace useful.

It seems that once an avatar is configured for adult access, that if the avatar is to be sent to a hub, the system chooses an adult hub.

[Amanda Crisp]

Related to this topic:

Do we currently have access to information about how *much* of current LL expenses that Premium Fees pay for?

It might be nice to see a pie chart showing how much they take in on Premium, Tier and MP Transaction Fees, so we have some idea if Premium Fees are the best place to focus our efforts (I’m pretty sure they are, but just want to be sure).

It might also be good to know the Subsidy Rate; how many Basic Accounts are serviced based in income provided by Premium Users. Basic accounts *do* provide income to the economy  in the form of Rent and direct purchases, and also directly pay LL in the form of Marketplace fees....so I would be interested to see how much (or even *if*) Basic Users are subsidized by Premium Payments.

It *could* be that Basic accounts are self-funding over the course of a year; I just don’t know.

But if we know all that, we can determine the urgency needed where Premium is concerned.

Disclaimer: If what I pay in premium also helps LL keep Basic Accounts free for other Residents - that will make me happy. I would prefer that any “excess” profit over what’s reasonable go towards helping the user base and maintaining the technical infrastructure that keeps SL alive. In RL I’m a semi-disabled person who gets to be “normal” in SL, so I value this crazy digital world maybe more than one might assume.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

6 minutes ago, AmandaKeen said:

Related to this topic:

Do we currently have access to information about how *much* of current LL expenses that Premium Fees pay for?

It might be nice to see a pie chart showing how much they take in on Premium, Tier and MP Transaction Fees, so we have some idea if Premium Fees are the best place to focus our efforts (I’m pretty sure they are, but just want to be sure).

It might also be good to know the Subsidy Rate; how many Basic Accounts are serviced based in income provided by Premium Users. Basic accounts *do* provide income to the economy  in the form of Rent and direct purchases, and also directly pay LL in the form of Marketplace fees....so I would be interested to see how much (or even *if*) Basic Users are subsidized by Premium Payments.

It *could* be that Basic accounts are self-funding over the course of a year; I just don’t know.

But if we know all that, we can determine the urgency needed where Premium is concerned.

Disclaimer: If what I pay in premium also helps LL keep Basic Accounts free for other Residents - that will make me happy. I would prefer that any “excess” profit over what’s reasonable go towards helping the user base and maintaining the technical infrastructure that keeps SL alive. In RL I’m a semi-disabled person who gets to be “normal” in SL, so I value this crazy digital world maybe more than one might assume.

That's the type of data they are unlikely to give us willingly.

[LittleMe Jewell]

Just now, Kyrah Abattoir said:

That's the type of data they are unlikely to give us willingly.

Ahhh, so we have to figure out how to torture them.

[Amanda Crisp]

10 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

That's the type of data they are unlikely to give us willingly.

Kyrah, I’m going googling to see if any kind of P&L statements are out there on the inter webs.

BTW, I’m so glad you’re still SLing 🙂 My original probably owns a digital metric-ton of KDC 🙂