sashaspooky Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 4 hours ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said: does “Non-penalizing as possible going forward” mean you will NOT impose reverse charges on us due to fraud?? If so, we can start re-listing .. If not, de-listing is the only remedy for now. I put in a ticket for the 4 fraudulent purchase that have happened this past week. The reply stated: " Rest assured that we are treating this situation very seriously and doing everything we can to ensure that it is addressed properly ". While we all have to have some sort of faith, that LL will do something to find a solution to this form of hacking, I will wait to see what they actually do with the ticket I submitted. If they show they will treat me as another victim when this happens, I will happily relist. But if they decide that the innocent shop involved with this fraud can shoulder the lose of it all, then I will protect my targeted items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieBell Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Tristan Careless said: Just attended the meeting with Kristin Linden. While she did not have a lot of information regarding future safeguards and/or tools (including 2FA), it was encouraging to hear her expressing her understanding of my frustration and to please reach out again if we find ourselves in the same situation. 2FA and MP toggles and so forth are handled by a different team and not in her wheel house. I too attended the Governance meeting and never having been to one before I would certainly recommend adding it to your list of things to do in SL if you have been affected by issues in SL or even to just get a fuller understanding of SL's inner workings. Topics are not confined just to merchant issues; all sorts of concerns were raised. The meetings are in voice and chat and while a bit chaotic with everyone talking at once I think you would find it eye-opening and hopefully worthwhile. There is a Web User Group meeting tomorrow (Wednesday, February 5th, 2020) if you still wish to raise issues around gacha safeguards, insurance, etc. I myself want to ask again about the gifting option as well as the tracing/journey of no copy items as I think it's morally important but also valuable sales and safety/security information for all creators, merchants and resellers. Whatever your own area of concern know that 'the Lindens' are following the forums. Please keep taking part in the discussions or join a meeting. We all need each others support. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Web_User_Group The Web User Group meeting is a monthly public meeting intended for discussion of issues around our Web properties such as Marketplace, Profiles, Place Pages, Search, etc. Please bring your questions & requests. 14:00 SLT. Meetings are held inworld at http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Denby/73/78/25 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollymews Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 not that a person's motivation changes anything for the product owners but a thing is that whoever is doing this is, may not be not doing it for profit. They may simply be doing it for the lulz, just because they can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Mistwood Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Very gratifying to hear that people are getting their cases reviewed and funds returned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarquisdeSadeJustine Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, Akira Mistwood said: Very gratifying to hear that people are getting their cases reviewed and funds returned! Did you get yours? Patch Linden posted specifics on putting a ticket in. Think its on page 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samara Sharkfin Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) The video of the governance meeting is now on SL Rapporteur''s YouTube channel: Edited February 5, 2020 by Samara Sharkfin 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashaspooky Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Mollymews said: not that a person's motivation changes anything for the product owners but a thing is that whoever is doing this is, may not be not doing it for profit. They may simply be doing it for the lulz, just because they can When my store was hit on Sunday, the same person bought 4 complete sets from my MP shop on 2 different purchases. When I discovered the signs of a fraud, I contacted the account owner, and she confirmed that she did not buy anything from me. I also contacted the buyer/hacker where he said he was buying them for another person, and offered to do the same for me, I refused. At some point another seller who had also been hit with around L$8000 worth of purchases from the same account and same person I had confronted, he stated to that shop owner that he thought it was fun and was not worried if his account would be closed, he would just make another Alt and come back. While this person may be doing it for fun, money is motivation as well, since he bought $300 dollars worth of Lindens while going on this spending spree. The account owner only realized the missing money when she checked her dashboard and found all the purchases. Thankfully she was able to report it and it is being investigated, and she has so far recovered some of the Lindens. It is my belief that while hacking, items bought were transferred to the hackers main account and the items then offered for sale. Monday I was contacted by a group member who had read the warning I posted to various gacha groups and during the conversation, she mentioned a MP shop owned by someone she suspected of copybotting. When she told me the name of that person, I was surprised to find it was the same person who this hacker said he offered to sell items to. All the names were given to LL and hopefully they will see if these people are connected and deal with them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashaspooky Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said: Like Dessi explained, scripts cannot be copied. It's simply impossible because the "code" is never communicated to the viewer. They only exist on LL's servers, we can only observe their effect on the world. The same goes for all object contents. An otherwise "flawless" copy is as easy as it has ever been. It's easy because the viewer has all the information about the visual appearance of the object, including rigging data. If the viewer didn't have that, it couldn't display it. You can't copy an object from inside of another object because the viewer has no knowledge of what the object is, other than the fact that it's an object with a name. Similarly, it's theoretically impossible to create new objects with someone else as the creator, because object creation is handled completely by LL's servers. The only way to get around that would be if LL's servers trusted any of the data it was receiving from a viewer requesting to create a new object, which could "trick" LL's server into thinking the object was actually created by someone else. That's highly unlikely. A simple way to "hide" the fake creator is to get a transferable object from the real creator (such as a prim) and make that the root of the copied linkset. That way they can mask the name if you only select the whole object, but if you select any other link in the linkset or right-click>inspect, you'll see the actual (fake) creator. Considering the amount of people just in this thread reporting that they've lost rare gachas, I don't think there's any real reason to think there's anything being copied. If the fraud is as wide-spread as it seems from this little thread, it's not hard to imagine there being a large supply of rares just waiting to be sold later. It is not impossible to collect a large number of rares from certain sets. When playing the actual gacha machines, I will play to fill my set and usually have a difficult time getting one or two commons and in the meantime I would collect more and more rares. I played one designers machine that had 15 commons. 1 rare, by the time I got all 15 commons I had collected 9 rares. Since I have no knowledge of how copybotting is done, so dont know if it is possible or not. All I am saying that what may appear as an over abundance of rares might just be the result of a rabid player and stubborn commons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordLennox Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said: Like Dessi explained, scripts cannot be copied. It's simply impossible because the "code" is never communicated to the viewer. They only exist on LL's servers, we can only observe their effect on the world. The same goes for all object contents. An otherwise "flawless" copy is as easy as it has ever been. It's easy because the viewer has all the information about the visual appearance of the object, including rigging data. If the viewer didn't have that, it couldn't display it. You can't copy an object from inside of another object because the viewer has no knowledge of what the object is, other than the fact that it's an object with a name. Similarly, it's theoretically impossible to create new objects with someone else as the creator, because object creation is handled completely by LL's servers. The only way to get around that would be if LL's servers trusted any of the data it was receiving from a viewer requesting to create a new object, which could "trick" LL's server into thinking the object was actually created by someone else. That's highly unlikely. A simple way to "hide" the fake creator is to get a transferable object from the real creator (such as a prim) and make that the root of the copied linkset. That way they can mask the name if you only select the whole object, but if you select any other link in the linkset or right-click>inspect, you'll see the actual (fake) creator. Considering the amount of people just in this thread reporting that they've lost rare gachas, I don't think there's any real reason to think there's anything being copied. If the fraud is as wide-spread as it seems from this little thread, it's not hard to imagine there being a large supply of rares just waiting to be sold later. They don't copybot. Copybot causes the creator name change. Those people who Dessi is talking about are duplicating boxes of boxes of boxes of gacha items in one box, and all the items inside of the boxes remain the same. Calling it no transfer item duplicate with using a glitch/illegal stuff is better. They give exact creator name/ same date and scripted items. This is totally something seperate from copybotting. There are several further informations in web pages about who did and banned before and who still duplicate gachas. Once an event opens, countless commons, rares and complete sets are being showed up in 2 hours on Marketplace for impossible ridiculous prices. I am not even exaggerating. Edited February 5, 2020 by OxfordLennox my bad English :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alma Draegonne Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) Hello Alma Draegonne,Thank you for contacting us. Your case has been escalated to me for further review. I am sorry to hear about issues you’ve encountered regarding some recent Linden Dollar assessments from your account.After conducting a secondary review, we have reversed the assessments from your account between the dates of 12/21/2020 - 2/1/2020. This should now be reflected in your Linden Dollar balance.We apologize for any frustration and inconvenience this may have caused, and are working on improving this process to reduce the negative impact on our Residents.Please feel free to let me know if you have any questions or need further assistance. At last! TY Kristin Linden !!! I have asked if this is going to continue, since other times it has happened have not returned the losses. Depending on what they answer, I will re-list my articles or not. At the moment I still don't activate them because I don't trust too much Edited February 5, 2020 by Alma Draegonne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarquisdeSadeJustine Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 grats Alma! yes I’m keeping my MP de-listed for now too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarquisdeSadeJustine Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Who else hasnt gotten their lindens back? sashaspooky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashaspooky Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 57 minutes ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said: Who else hasnt gotten their lindens back? sashaspooky? I just came on line and an email was waiting announcing a refund of what I lost over the last week. Now with some assurance that this is going to be how these fraud cases will be handled in the future, then I will start relisting all my full sets and rares. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordLennox Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said: Who else hasnt gotten their lindens back? sashaspooky? June Marais as far as I know. Edit: Nico and June just did. Edited February 5, 2020 by OxfordLennox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Marais Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 hello everyone, thank you very much all who made it happen, i got my lindens back too and always ready to help in anything if you need me, hugs 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessi Tyran Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) After having listened to the governance meeting from yesterday I am confident in leaving everything listed as is. I say this because, @ Kristin Linden said, if we have future assessments against us, to file a ticket to her team as Patch had stated a few pages back and she and her team will look into it. I feel better about continuing to list on the MP knowing this problem has gained the Lindens attention and they are taking action on our behalf. I understand policy review / change isn't going to happen over night. This problem isn't going to magically disappear either. I refuse to allow thieves to run me off or keep me from doing something I love to do and enjoy. As long as Linden Labs and the Lindens continue to support us and hear our concerns and take action. I won't stop. I won't coward to thievery. This is just my feelings on this topic and how I chose to proceed. I encourage all of you to do what is best for you and your business. Edited February 5, 2020 by Dessi Tyran 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashaspooky Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Dessi Tyran said: After having listened to the governance meeting from yesterday I am confident in leaving everything listed as is. I say this because, @ Kristin Linden said, if we have future assessments against us, to file a ticket to her team as Patch had stated a few pages back and she and her team will look into it. I feel better about continuing to list on the MP knowing this problem has gained the Lindens attention and they are taking action on our behalf. I understand policy review / change isn't going to happen over night. This problem isn't going to magically disappear either. I refuse to allow thieves to run me off or keep me from doing something I love to do and enjoy. As long as Linden Labs and the Lindens continue to support us and hear our concerns and take action. I won't stop. I won't coward to thievery. This is just my feelings on this topic and how I chose to proceed. I encourage all of you to do what is best for you and your business. You are right, of course, and if LL is willing to stand by us, we should stand by them. Since we have now been given a pathway to clear up any assessments against the MP store owners, then we should start relisting and give more choices to potential customers. Dessi is also correct when she says she wont allow these hackers to stop her. This is part of what they want, to drive people off MP, so ultimately the shopping choice will be the hackers themselves. To help LL contain this problem, all MP sellers need to keep an eye on what is sold. Look at the email notices as soon as possible and if it is a gifted item, check both the seller and gifted out. If the giftee shows to be a few days old, then contact the account owner to verify it was a purchase made by them and if it wasn't, tell them to contact the fraud people at LL. The faster they are notified, the faster they can contain the damage. Then send a ticket to the team that will help us with all available info. With luck, when these hackers learn we are all watching for them, they will not be so bold about their activities. Finally, if a fraud occurs, post a heads up here and also on every gacha group you belong to as a warning to everyone a hacker is active. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarquisdeSadeJustine Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 On 2/4/2020 at 10:38 AM, Patch Linden said: Hi everyone! I wanted to give you an update on what we’re working on. The assessment process is not one that is typically handled by the Governance or Support teams for Second Life, however, we are here to help with it. As we continue to review the processes and policies that are currently in place with the team handling it, we have come up with an interim solution of putting a direct review process in place for anyone that has an assessment made to an account within our teams. If you’ve had an assessment levied against your account and would like to have our team further review it, please file a support ticket using Issue Type: Marketplace > General Marketplace Issues. Rest assured that we are working on a way to make this process as painless, efficient and non-penalizing as possible going forward. We appreciate your patience as we work towards that together with all of you. Haven’t heard from Akira Mistwood, rasterscan, nikilei, tonk tomcat, xharay, fneil8, & lulu frue as to whether or not they got there refunds. I hope their aware of the update! I’ll find them inworld and let them know. How many of you re-listed your MP? I’m still nervous to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Rothmoor Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 27 minutes ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said: Haven’t heard from Akira Mistwood, rasterscan, nikilei, tonk tomcat, xharay, fneil8, & lulu frue as to whether or not they got there refunds. I hope their aware of the update! I’ll find them inworld and let them know. How many of you re-listed your MP? I’m still nervous to. All the solutions we have discussed in this forum will without question take the Labs time to discuss and even longer to implement. As long as they are keeping this dedicated channel open for us to file wrongful adjustments I will be listing. So we now have a bit of extra paper work to do.... I can live with that 😁 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaggerlicious Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 My 2nd attempt just placed a 2nd ticket in since a month ago since last month nothing was being done about the situation i am still currently waiting for a response i appreciate the time and orderly fashion everything is being handled Dear swaggerlicious Resident, We would like to acknowledge that we have received your request and a ticket has been created. A support representative will be reviewing your request and will send you a personal response. To view the status of the ticket or add comments, please visit https://lindenlab.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/1477713 Ticket description as follows: Why am I being penalized for someones wrongful doing it's not my fault they bought linden illegally according to the email you have sent me and on top of it I lose my marketplace listing can I get my item back my account was assessed back a few months back I was told to forward this to Kristens Team We regret to inform you that the L$ recently sent to you may have been obtained through an unauthorized source. Per the Terms of Service and due to the manner in which the L$ were originally obtained, the L$ have been voided from your account. L$ 1,345 that was sent on 12/21/2019 have been assessed. If you have any information regarding this transaction, we ask that you contact the Linden Lab Account Security Team either by calling our Fraud Line at 800-860-6990 or opening a ticket at https://support.secondlife.com/create-case/. If you already have a ticket open, please wait for a response there. Regards, Account Security Linden Lab Dear swaggerlicious, Order ID: 1516426195 Purchased By: KimSuyin Line Item 1: [Since1975] - Boxing Championship Gold Belt RARE 1 Delivered to: IoNonMiArrendo Resident Listing URL: http://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Since1975-Boxing-Championship-Gold-Belt-RARE-1/10829818 Delivered Quantity: 1 of 1 Purchased on: December 21, 2019 05:57 AM PST Buyer's Price (for delivered items): L$1,499 Distributions Total (for delivered items): L$0 Marketplace Commission (for delivered items): L$150 Your Earnings (for delivered items): L$1,349 Your Total Earnings (for delivered items): L$1,349 Thank you for using the Second Life Marketplace Thank you for your patience. Sincerely, Second Life Support Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Mistwood Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 18 hours ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said: Did you get yours? Patch Linden posted specifics on putting a ticket in. Think its on page 9. I did! I would have been fine with just getting my item back but money works, too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaggerlicious Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 5 hours ago, swaggerlicious said: My 2nd attempt just placed a 2nd ticket in since a month ago since last month nothing was being done about the situation i am still currently waiting for a response i appreciate the time and orderly fashion everything is being handled Dear swaggerlicious Resident, We would like to acknowledge that we have received your request and a ticket has been created. A support representative will be reviewing your request and will send you a personal response. To view the status of the ticket or add comments, please visit https://lindenlab.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/1477713 Ticket description as follows: Why am I being penalized for someones wrongful doing it's not my fault they bought linden illegally according to the email you have sent me and on top of it I lose my marketplace listing can I get my item back my account was assessed back a few months back I was told to forward this to Kristens Team We regret to inform you that the L$ recently sent to you may have been obtained through an unauthorized source. Per the Terms of Service and due to the manner in which the L$ were originally obtained, the L$ have been voided from your account. L$ 1,345 that was sent on 12/21/2019 have been assessed. If you have any information regarding this transaction, we ask that you contact the Linden Lab Account Security Team either by calling our Fraud Line at 800-860-6990 or opening a ticket at https://support.secondlife.com/create-case/. If you already have a ticket open, please wait for a response there. Regards, Account Security Linden Lab Dear swaggerlicious, Order ID: 1516426195 Purchased By: KimSuyin Line Item 1: [Since1975] - Boxing Championship Gold Belt RARE 1 Delivered to: IoNonMiArrendo Resident Listing URL: http://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Since1975-Boxing-Championship-Gold-Belt-RARE-1/10829818 Delivered Quantity: 1 of 1 Purchased on: December 21, 2019 05:57 AM PST Buyer's Price (for delivered items): L$1,499 Distributions Total (for delivered items): L$0 Marketplace Commission (for delivered items): L$150 Your Earnings (for delivered items): L$1,349 Your Total Earnings (for delivered items): L$1,349 Thank you for using the Second Life Marketplace Thank you for your patience. Sincerely, Second Life Support Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connorboy26 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Started a new inworld group if anyone would like to join. IM me inworld for the name. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanja Byron Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) I will risk listing my things again after LL was so fair to us now 🙂 Edited February 6, 2020 by Tanja Byron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashaspooky Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tanja Byron said: I will risk listing my things again after LL was so fair to us now 🙂 I will start relisting my items tomorrow and continue adding to them. LL seems to be helping us out by reassessing the claims. We have also learned what to do if we are involved with another fraud situation. As I said before, read the email notices of sales made to your MP store and if it looks suspicious, contact the account owner. Don't make the mistake I did by confronting the suspected hacker, it will only warn them that they have been caught and they will disappear, so let LL deal with them. Keep the emails so details can be sent to the account owner and also LL. Post warnings on gacha groups so all the mp shop owners will be on the lookout. Don't wait to act. the faster LL is brought up to speed the better chance they have to eliminate the problem before more harm is done. Once the hackers learn that the gacha community have united in protecting each other, they might think twice about being as bold as they have been these past weeks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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