"Linden Dollar assessment"?

[Alyona Su]

24 minutes ago, Tonk Tomcat said:

One question to understand this all correct: You all receive those fraudulent money back from LL only when you sell no copy items and you lost the item, right?

 

11 minutes ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said:

Well this is a gacha community forum,  I’m not sure what they do about copy items, I would guess if it’s a copy item you never actually lose it 😊 but if it was bought with fraudulent Lindens then they’ve been assessing the accounts and reversing the charges so we’re stuck with them which here lies the biggest problem. they do have the ability to give us our stuff back if they find it but if they refunded our money for the item they’re not going to give us the item back too

Linden Lab never refunds fraudulent L$ to anyone. I suspect they are making a special exception in these cases because 1) These people are not the creators of these items and 2) They are no-copy items. Thus, it is a genuine loss of real value: They spent, in some cases, a lot of money to obtain these items and intended to resell them for a profit (it's a lot like how Amazon works: independent resellers of stuff.)

So think of it this way: You find a rare painting at a yard, or estate-sale then put it up on Amazon to sell it. Someone buys it and you ship it to them. Then a week later, Amazon says the buyer was a fraudster, and then takes back the money they sent you to pay for that painting (or refuses to pay to to begin with.) Now you've lost that painting AND lost all the money you spent to get it and ship it because what you were paid was taken away (or are never paid.)

This is why I think Linden Lab is making a *very rare* exception to their policy.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Alyona Su

[MarquisdeSadeJustine]

18 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

 

Linden Lab never refunds fraudulent L$ to anyone. I suspect they are making a special exception in these cases because 1) These people are not the creators of these items and 2) They are no-copy items. Thus, it is a genuine loss of real value: They spent, in some cases, a lot of money to obtain these items and intended to resell them for a profit (it's a lot like how Amazon works: independent resellers of stuff.)

So think of it this way: You find a rare painting at a yard, or estate-sale then put it up on Amazon to sell it. Someone buys it and you ship it to them. Then a week later, Amazon says the buyer was a fraudster, and then takes back the money they sent you to pay for that painting (or refuses to pay to to begin with.) Now you've lost that painting AND lost all the money you spent to get it and ship it because what you were paid was taken away (or are never paid.)

This is why I think Linden Lab is making a *very rare* exception to their policy.

Well then they might find out overtime that people have pulled out of the marketplace. I for one like many other gacha resellers are not going to take a hit from Linden labs just because they don’t feel like cleaning up all the fraud that’s going on. We simply cannot afford assessments AND the lose of our items. They won’t be passing the buck to me, I will choose just to sell inworld.  The marketplace is where linden labs makes most of their money, the more sellers the better for them, but yes, I suppose no copy items would and should have different rules to them.  

Your post has me thinking though if the majority of items on the marketplace are copy... then there’s actually not much reason to be overly concerned about fraud... 🤔 The charges might be reversed but you’re never out of your item.

Edited February 7, 2020 by MarquisdeSadeJustine

[Alyona Su]

56 minutes ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said:

Well then they might find out overtime that people have pulled out of the marketplace.

This is a moot point; Gacha resellers pulling out will not really have much effect on anything. To be clear; I'm not debunking your statement here, only saying that the merchant pool is so large that a Gacha reseller is barely a droplet into the ocean.

57 minutes ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said:

Your post has me thinking though if the majority of items on the marketplace are copy... then there’s actually not much reason to be overly concerned about fraud... 🤔 The charges might be reversed but you’re never out of your item.

This is the most common case and why the standard policy works just fine as it is and also why the responses to Gacha resellers is an exception to the policy. (Which makes your first sentence moot - this is where I was going with that LOL)  

[MarquisdeSadeJustine]

3 hours ago, Alma Draegonne said:

Now I know, I read it a few days ago in this same forum, but when it happened I didn't know. Thank you!

Right now they returned the money that LL discounted me yesterday, for "fraudulent purchases."
Kristin solved it again  

 

you can block but in a short time they’re only going to be on someone else’s account that they hacked and they are only going to be sending things to a yet another fake account..it’s never ending... but it’s worth trying 

[Buhis]

Hi. I encountered this problem by accident. To be honest, I had no control over my money and sales and was happy if the account was topped up . But after reading these articles, I decided to look at my transactions and was upset that I was deleted repeatedly and many times . I'm asking Linden lab to check my accounts .And return money or gachi items that were purchased in my store by a person . I can't know that this money isn't clean . The person who withdrew money from our accounts, I think, is mistaken . you can't take it from the seller ,it's not their fault .I was very surprised that I was repeatedly injured.

[lina90900]

Hello I want to Express my gratitude to Kristin . She returned my lost money . THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!

[Buhis]

Thank you very much you made me happy ))I'm very grateful to Kristin .She returned my lost money . THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

[oOPandorAo]

Dear oOPandorAo Resident,

We regret to inform you that the L$ recently sent to you may have been obtained through an unauthorized source. Per the Terms of Service and due to the manner in which the L$ were originally obtained, the L$ have been voided from your account.

L$ 1799 that was sent on 2/2/2020 have been assessed.

If you have any information regarding this transaction, we ask that you contact the Linden Lab Account Security Team either by calling our Fraud Line at 800-860-6990 or opening a ticket  at https://support.secondlife.com/create-case/. If you already have a ticket open, please wait for a response there.

Hello! In my store, someone bought a gachi kit. It’s not my fault that this money was from scammers. Please return my money or costume because it is a gacha. I have lost everything.

[UmbrieI]

Здравствуйте! Я не помню, когда это произошло, но в Second Life была техническая проблема. И люди были выброшены из мира. И у меня была такая проблема. Весь магазин, все товары исчезли из списка покупок из опубликованных. Товар остался на сайте, но когда люди купили у меня, костюм исчез, но деньги не пришли. Покупатель не получил товар и не потерял деньги, но я потерял все свои костюмы. И я неоднократно обращался к суппорту, мне ничего не помогало. Они вернули только 10 000, а потери составили много десятков тысяч. В настоящее время я загружаю новый продукт; он хорошо продается. Но если вы покупаете те вещи, которые были загружены ранее, возникает та же проблема: ни денег, ни товаров. Прошу помощи, верните мне деньги или исправьте ошибку, произошедшую по вине мира Second Life.Я получил не только материальный ущерб, но и моральный ущерб, потому что клиенты, которые купили мои товары, перестали делать покупки у меня. Потому что они не получили товар.

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Kristin Linden
Removed for privacy concerns

[MarquisdeSadeJustine]

are these no copy items? Personally i would take all of these out of ur MP and maybe reload them?  Call technical problems at linden lab. 

[UmbrieI]

This Is Gacha. I tried to remove it from the Store and upload it again . I can remove it, but it disappears and does not return to my inventory or to the store in the market . I'll lose either way . I would like at least one of the Linden lab employees to log in to my account and fix this issue . My store is broken .

9 hours ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said:

are these no copy items? Personally i would take all of these out of ur MP and maybe reload them?  Call technical problems at linden lab. 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by UmbrieI

[OxfordLennox]

On 2/9/2020 at 4:18 AM, UmbrieI said:

This Is Gacha. I tried to remove it from the Store and upload it again . I can remove it, but it disappears and does not return to my inventory or to the store in the market . I'll lose either way . I would like at least one of the Linden lab employees to log in to my account and fix this issue . My store is broken .

 

Hello Umriel. Sometimes when an item sold out it shows itself listed on MP and also item acts like a real item until you try to rez them to the floor. But mostly in that issue, MP listing turns to inactive. Even when you drop them to your trash and try to delete everything in trash it stays there until you purge them. Is that something like this you are experiencing?

Another issue: If you have dragged something from MP listing into a box listings stay fake but cannot deliver the items purchased even if there are more items in your listing, also you can't have a dime. You need to relist the items with that issue.

[UmbrieI]

39 minutes ago, OxfordLennox said:

Hello Umriel. Sometimes when an item sold out it shows itself listed on MP and also item acts like a real item until you try to rez them to the floor. But mostly in that issue, MP listing turns to inactive. Even when you drop them to your trash and try to delete everything in trash it stays there until you purge them. Is that something like this you are experiencing?

Another issue: If you have dragged something from MP listing into a box listings stay fake but cannot deliver the items purchased even if there are more items in your listing, also you can't have a dime. You need to relist the items with that issue.

You did not understand ) I described the problem Above))) the Fact is that the website marketplace has my product, but when a person buys from my store, it just disappears . And the money does not come to me and the customer who bought the product also did not come . The money remains in his wallet . I lose both money and goods . and since this is a Gacha it is in one instance it just disappears

[sashaspooky]

Hello, just had an email notice of a MP sale, checked the names account holder 8+ years, giftee one day.  contacted the account holder, she was not aware of any purchases nor did she not the person it was sent to.    I urged her to put in a fraud ticket once she checks her dashboard for purchase details, I also suggest that she block the person, that got the set, from her account.  I have sent my details to the LL using the directions posted by Patch.  My thought is the faster they get all the information, the faster they can close in on the hacker.

Edited February 10, 2020 by sashaspooky

[Nikilei]

My online store was hit again. This is the 4th time since January. I unlisted all but the cheapest items and thinking that the criminal had been caught, relisted everything a week ago. They hadn't been and I was hit again yesterday [2/10].  Would it be safer to sell in-world only where there is a record of who stops in your store and there isn't the option to buy as a gift?

How do you protect yourself from having your accounts hacked? Is it safe to give out an http address to someone else  inworld if they ask for one? I had someone ask for this so they could find an item in my MP store-I didn't give it out as I thought it was strange request. But, I can't protect myself if I don't know how this happens in the first place. I know the obvious about not giving out passwords but is there anything else I can do? I don't want to be a victim to this in the future and I am tired of being a victim to this person who keeps stealing from me. 

[Albus Rothmoor]

37 minutes ago, Nikilei said:

My online store was hit again. This is the 4th time since January. I unlisted all but the cheapest items and thinking that the criminal had been caught, relisted everything a week ago. They hadn't been and I was hit again yesterday [2/10].  Would it be safer to sell in-world only where there is a record of who stops in your store and there isn't the option to buy as a gift?

How do you protect yourself from having your accounts hacked? Is it safe to give out an http address to someone else  inworld if they ask for one? I had someone ask for this so they could find an item in my MP store-I didn't give it out as I thought it was strange request. But, I can't protect myself if I don't know how this happens in the first place. I know the obvious about not giving out passwords but is there anything else I can do? I don't want to be a victim to this in the future and I am tired of being a victim to this person who keeps stealing from me. 

I am not sure what made you think they had caught the culprit. The only change that happened was that LL opened a direct channel for us to get our adjustments returned promptly. We have had no update on 1) how the phishing is occurring (so much so that the larger SL public is hardly even being warned about a new type of phishing scam) 2) if there is anything we can do to help LL catch the offender(s) 3) what they intend to do to make it harder for the offender to continue this scam (I strongly believe this needs to be two tier verification so we can cut off the money supply) and 4) where is all the stolen stuff? (is there a black market mega store I don't know about?). I have chosen to relist with the assumption I will continue to get hit but that LL will refund me in such fraudulent cases. Essentially as long as they are agreeing to refund me I am agreeing to be patient with them for long term solutions and to have the extra job of filing tickets and keeping in touch with other resellers. I suggest you do what makes you comfortable, I do not have an Inworld store and never wanted one but many do and some have chosen for peace of mind to stop selling on the MP until LL implements changes. As I am a decorator and am always looking for specific things I was super upset about this situation causing so many resellers to delist as it meant I would probably need to hunt for the items I wanted inworld. I have adjusted though and send my shopping list to the resellers I know. That seems to be working. So I think we will all adjust accordingly. I truly hope LL's saves the MP, but I will enjoy my Second life in spite of this! I think we can be both grateful to the tremendous efforts of Kristin and Patch but at the same time be rightfully disappointed at the Labs for knowing about these security risks in 2017 and not finding solutions then. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor

[Alice Aurelia]

5 hours ago, GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor said:

I am not sure what made you think they had caught the culprit. The only change that happened was that LL opened a direct channel for us to get our adjustments returned promptly. We have had no update on 1) how the phishing is occurring (so much so that the larger SL public is hardly even being warned about a new type of phishing scam) 2) if there is anything we can do to help LL catch the offender(s) 3) what they intend to do to make it harder for the offender to continue this scam (I strongly believe this needs to be two tier verification so we can cut off the money supply) and 4) where is all the stolen stuff? (is there a black market mega store I don't know about?). I have chosen to relist with the assumption I will continue to get hit but that LL will refund me in such fraudulent cases. Essentially as long as they are agreeing to refund me I am agreeing to be patient with them for long term solutions and to have the extra job of filing tickets and keeping in touch with other resellers. I suggest you do what makes you comfortable, I do not have an Inworld store and never wanted one but many do and some have chosen for peace of mind to stop selling on the MP until LL implements changes. As I am a decorator and am always looking for specific things I was super upset about this situation causing so many resellers to delist as it meant I would probably need to hunt for the items I wanted inworld. I have adjusted though and send my shopping list to the resellers I know. That seems to be working. So I think we will all adjust accordingly. I truly hope LL's saves the MP, but I will enjoy my Second life in spite of this! I think we can be both grateful to the tremendous efforts of Kristin and Patch but at the same time be rightfully disappointed at the Labs for knowing about these security risks in 2017 and not finding solutions then. 

Let's help LL find thieves, many Resellers know who is stealing, but LL adhere to a strange policy of non-interference. I think we need to continue this topic - where do they put the stolen goods? They make copies of it, and sell it on MP from their Alt accounts, while greatly underestimating the cost of the product. I have already written about this, I discovered this scheme in January, I wrote to LL, and I hope that thanks to my efforts, one of the large copybot stores was closed and its owner's account was deleted. Also, due to the fact that the profile data was not hidden, I learned whose Alt was the owner of the store - of course, it was the Alt of <Redacted> - the largest copybot in SL.Many people make copies of products, unfortunately, there are posts about this, but only <Redacted> steals on a huge scale, so I am sure that if this person is found, if she does not have the opportunity to steal records, accounts and make copies, this difficult situation will stabilize. In the store <Redacted> and at the moment there are hundreds of copied goods that were stolen directly from the account of one of  resellers, on which it is still listed by the last owner, this has been going on for two years.  I did not find a solution - I am not the owner of the rights, the owner of the rights of DRD applied to the LL, but also to no avail. This is some nonsense, maybe someone has an idea how to solve this issue?

Edited February 11, 2020 by Kristin Linden
Naming and Shaming

[Tanja Byron]

<Redacted> xxx

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Tanja Byron
*shame and deleted* sorry Kristine

[Albus Rothmoor]

(Quote removed)

Some kind soul should contact these people to see if they also have had Linden adjustments! 😉

Edited February 11, 2020 by GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor

[Albus Rothmoor]

1 minute ago, GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor said:

Some kind soul should contact these people to see if they also have had Linden adjustments! 😉

The problem is, if we do it as citizens of Second Life it will turn into a witch hunt because most of the time we just have circumstantial evidence. Where as Linden Lab who can actually track the items through their unique numbers can get actual proof. So I am personally not going to engage in this time consuming and potentially community destroying activity. We must continue to pressure LL to take steps to bring this platform into 2020 where it belongs. 

[Kristin Linden]

 

 

Hey folks!

I just wanted to drop in a quick reminder that calling out specific people and accusing them of possible TOS violations is not appropriate for the forums. If you believe that someone is violating the Terms of Service we ask that you please file an Abuse Report so that we may investigate further.

Please do not use the forums to name and shame others, it's not cool.

 

Annnd back to the topic of the L$ Assessments: We're happy that we were able to assist with reviewing these, and as mentioned before if anyone comes across any further L$ assessments they would like to have reviewed please feel free to contact me and my team by filing a Support case under: Issue Type: Marketplace > General Marketplace Issues

In the meantime we appreciate everyone's patience and understanding while we work on improving this process to reduce the negative impact on our Residents.

Stay cool. Be Rad!

 

[OxfordLennox]

But he is now stealing with the same named avatars. Wondering why isn't he still banned. 🙄

[Alice Aurelia]

2 hours ago, Kristin Linden said:

 

 

Эй, ребята!

Я просто хотел добавить быстрое напоминание о том, что призывать конкретных людей и обвинять их в возможных нарушениях TOS не подходит для форумов. Если вы считаете, что кто-то нарушает Условия предоставления услуг, мы просим вас подать отчет о злоупотреблении, чтобы мы могли продолжить расследование.

Пожалуйста, не используйте форумы, чтобы называть и стыдить других, это не круто.

 

И вернемся к теме оценок L $: мы рады, что смогли помочь с их рассмотрением, и, как уже упоминалось ранее, если кто-нибудь сталкивается с какими-либо дополнительными оценками L $, которые он хотел бы просмотреть, пожалуйста, не стесняйтесь обращаться ко мне. и моя команда, подав заявку на поддержку в разделе: Тип проблемы: Marketplace> Общие проблемы Marketplace

В то же время мы ценим терпение и понимание каждого, пока работаем над улучшением этого процесса, чтобы уменьшить негативное влияние на наших жителей.

Не горячись. Будь Рад!

 

Of course, you are right, but we are also right, when we use the form of appeal, we just get a standard response, and no action takes place. Why not open this topic on the forum for discussion? Everyone understands that LL can trace any item, and can solve this problem. Perhaps on the forum we would have found a common solution for the common good.

And thank you very much again for the return of linds, it was cool, it was a step forward in the politics of LL!

 

[sashaspooky]

12 hours ago, GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor said:

The problem is, if we do it as citizens of Second Life it will turn into a witch hunt because most of the time we just have circumstantial evidence. Where as Linden Lab who can actually track the items through their unique numbers can get actual proof. So I am personally not going to engage in this time consuming and potentially community destroying activity. We must continue to pressure LL to take steps to bring this platform into 2020 where it belongs. 

What you have said is true.  As an MP seller, I get notification when items are sold.  I look at each as they arrive and if I see an items that has been sent as a gift, I go to SL and check the profiles of the people involved.  Like yesterday, the buyer was an 8 year member and the giftee was one day old.  That did not sound right, so I contacted the buyer and asked if she had bought the item, she had not and she did not know the name that the item was sent to.  I urged to check her dashboard to check on current purchases, but her dashboard was not letting her log in.  She later told me that her dashboard showed numerous  purchases and her bank account had been used to buy $1000 worth of Lindens.  She phoned the fraud line and reported it all and was told they saw the linden purchases and were reversing the payments back to her account.  LL is looking into the other purchases.  I sent in a ticket for the one made at my store and the Linden amount was returned.  The strongest weapon in our arsenal is communication.  Look at your notifications and if they look odd, check out the names.  If need be contact the customer and ask if they bought the item.  If not tell them to contact the fraud line.  The faster LL is notified, the faster they can shut down the hacker and make it harder to have massive shopping sprees. If for nothing else, it shows potential MP customers that shop owners have their backs.

[sashaspooky]

9 hours ago, OxfordLennox said:

But he is now stealing with the same named avatars. Wondering why isn't he still banned. 🙄

I have a feeling the person who hit my store was the same hacker.  He used 2 different names, but the one he used yesterday was the name of the person he told me he was buying for (he added "2" behind the name.  So either this was this hackers attempt at revenge because that person refused to buy his stolen items or maybe I am just the most gullible person in the world.  Either way, as soon as reported the av used by the hacker was shut down, but that does not solve the problem because it just take a few minutes to create another Alt to do the grunt work.