Dessi Tyran

Thank you for replying to this thread. As a gacha event opens everyone is quick to list to get those first sales, I am sure any gacha reseller would agree that taking the time to research / google something makes listing less desirable. I can tell you from my own research, I am more leery of continuing. Not only have I done my own research, I also reached out to a lawyer about copyright versus trademark infringement and I walked away with a migraine. There are without a doubt many variables in reselling gachas and the use of keywords. And to put trust in a creator not to create or name something illegal is giving them a lot more trust than I am comfortable with. I have already unlisted gachas I feel might be infringement, but I am not confidently sure. So, I am losing possible revenue as is Linden Labs. I would prefer to stand on the side of caution. The knowledge I have learned gives me pause and made me less trusting for my own legal safely when it comes to the marketplace and the use of keywords. As the old saying goes, when in doubt, don't.

Let me start off by saying this topic is meant as an open table discussion to help me better understand the Marketplace rules on spam and intellectual property rights and how it pertains to gacha resellers.I have had my virtual hand slapped twice now for intellectual property and I would like to understand it better, so it doesn't happen again. After a weekend of research, I have questions and perhaps some of you might be able to help me answer them.I have repeatedly read the marketplace rules and guidelines. As a gacha reseller, we all know, we have no control over what a creator makes or names their items. How do you feel about being held responsible for someone else's product naming and creation?There are four types of intellectual property; copyright, patent, trademarks and trade secrets. Also,Intellectual property definition from Oxford states; and I quote. A work or invention that is the result of creativity, such as a manuscript or a design, to which one has rights and for which one may apply for a patent, copyright, trademark, etc. Please explain to me, how a gacha reseller is suppose to know a creator from a foreign country has created something or its name would be considered intellectual property infringement? Furthermore, know all the US based words and brands that are protected by intellectual property; copyright, patent, trademarks and trade secrets?I am being held responsible for someone else's creation and its naming instead of the creator. I am wondering if anyone else is having or had this problem? What about gestures residents use. They take clips from movies, songs and so on. They are listed on the marketplace. Is that not intellectual property theft? (please note, I am not attacking gestures only using it as an example.)Per the Second Life Marketplace Listing Policies, specific activities are disallowed, including but not limited to Item or Keyword Spam, Listings for harmful or disruptive content, and Anti-Competitive or Abusive Behavior, which includes using alternate or related accounts to purchase or rate your own items. Branded items may be listed or sold only by the brand or intellectual property owner or its authorized agents.AndAs provided in our Terms of Service, it's important to remember that you're responsible for respecting intellectual property rights, and if you're importing content to Second Life, you must have all the necessary rights and permissions to do so.My problem with this is as I stated above. A gacha reseller does not pay to import an item or have any hand in its creation or naming. So how are gacha resellers held to the same standard as a creator? Shouldn't the item be thoroughly investigated to whom the proper creator owner is and then dealt with accordingly? As it is now, gacha resellers take not only the monetary loss but also receive a warning of the abuse or banned for a period of time. Plus it is noted on your account. This is one heck of a double whammy. Is this a risk I am taking and haven't realized until this moment? I understand if you use a brand name or any sort of reference in your keywords is taboo.What about the flagging system on the Marketplace. What keeps a hater or competitive resident / store from reporting a gacha reseller for intellectual property infringement (knowing we are not the creators of the items we sell.) in hopes a person or store gets banned or loses their store / account? There are warnings not to abuse this feature but as a resident how do we know it isn't being abused, or we're not being maliciously attacked by someone?You could say, well don't use brand names in your keywords. Okay, do you know every brand that has been copyrighted far and wide? I don't. Mistakes happen. Do you know if a creator uses a brand phrase in the naming of their product it is also considered intellectual property infringement? It is, I found out the hard way.I feel there needs to be more clarification where gachas are concerned and the risks gacha store owners, are responsible for and taking. These are my thoughts and feelings on the topic. They are by no means an attack on someone or Linden Labs. I understand there are rules, and we all need to protect ourselves, which is what I am doing by asking questions.

I just reloaded my MP store and its ALL RESTORED. All the new listings and old! Yaaaaaaaaaaay! Let the work resume. Now LL would you please make the MP website behave. Thank you for fixing it quickly.

I feel you there. I have gotten that error too. I had to take what I had loaded in world to delete the in world MP folder and reload load it. Because I noticed if I didn't the website wouldn't let me list the folder with the items in it which I found strange. A lot of things have been going wrong this month when it comes to in world MP loading and listing. Man I hope so because to see more than eleven thousand listings and more gone just about gave me a heart attack. :(

Well, I did some digging and looking. This isn't only about the current Epiphany listings. Sadly, this has affected listings from Shabby, Imaginarium, K9, and some from the Arcade. What an imaginable mess.

I am wondering if this is going to happen to any new listings from this point until whatever was done is fixed. To list or not to list is now the question. What do you guys think?

Opal, go to your in world MP and sort by most recent.

Thank you, Rhiana but what a pain in the *beep* to do!

I have also been having the same problem with the MP going into " heavy load " mode after editing a single ad and trying to save it. I figured out a workaround. I have also noticed when the listing would show on the MP the Marketplace "unlisted" tab in world would still show the items as "unlisted" instead of them disappearing once they are on the website. The only way for them to disappear is for me to click and "list" even though they already were. Now, my friend, Rhiana brought to my attention all my Epiphany listings are gone too. What the actual *beep* is going on Linden Labs? You know this is the number one busiest time of year. Please let us know how quickly this is going to be fixed!

My interruption of what Kristin just said is; those who are seen as having done nothing wrong will not be assessed (penalized) for these fraudulent purchases. If you were gifted items from today they are legally yours to keep. And, if you do receive an assessment then by all means continue to submit a ticket to have it reviewed. If I am wrong by all means please clarify. @KristinLinden - I know we won't be seeing those internal policy changes. However, will we be seeing external Marketplace policy change sometime this year? I would like to thank all Lindens involved in reviewing the policy and making changes to reduce the frustration that these thieves have caused. I am hopeful that the havoc and chaos will start to subside.

I pm'ed you.

I would like to say; thank you to everyone who has been proactive in reporting one day old avatar's being gifted purchases by another avatar. Personally, every time I see these posts and names. I immediately block both of them and I am happy to say, I haven't had to deal with assessment charge backs. Kudos to all of you for keeping the rest of us informed of what is being purchased and by whom. I am mournful of your losses and yet hopeful that @Kristin Linden team continues to support us by returning the assessments. Another person has informed us of three more MP stores with suspicious activity. I have done my diligence in reading and researching the marketplace policy. I don't see a way to possibly alert Linden Labs to an entire store in need of investigating. The only good option; and what I've done; is flag the entire store as - spam or disallowed listing practice then harmful or disruptive content because that is exactly what it is and it ALL deserves to be looked at. I feel bad for the team who deals with the flags because that is A LOT of flags to investigate. I believe I am not alone in feeling these "flags" are sorely lacking in offering us options. I will continue to be an advocate for a store flag option. As someone once said, this option could be used to get rid of competition. Well, my reply is; all flags could be considered the same. And by abusing the MP policy anyone risks losing their MP by doing it. I feel it would be productive to offer this flag as an option and lessen the Linden team workload on us flagged an entire store item by item. I didn't flag these entire stores to make the Flag team's workload harder, but to be helpful in cleaning up the MP. And I surely didn't do it to abuse the MP policy. Unfortunately, I missed the last web meeting and I apologize if this was covered but I felt it needed to be said again. In the end, we are trying to help you; Linden Labs. Help us to help you. I am also curious to see how long it takes these flags to be noticed and morose these stores shut down.

I think this is a great idea. It would make it much harder for copybotters to determine how many people have played a creator's gacha. And, how would they know which person got what # from a set. I am also unsure of how it would technically work, but its a wonderful suggestion and possible solutions. I feel it would help Linden Labs and us legitimate resellers track down these coping thievish people. Hypothetically speaking, if you bought into a numbered gacha and won a specific number and you see someone else having the same numbered item you won, then you know without a shadow of doubt it was duplicated illegally. Once again, if we had an added drop down flag option for a bogus / illegal item needing investigated, it would go faster than having to submit a ticket through your viewer or through the ticket website. This would also reassure us the flag is being received by the appropriate team for handling because sometimes when we need to submit a ticket it isn't sent to the right team because the already given choices don't fit into whatever the problem might be we've come upon.

A serious issue was brought up and how it was affecting each of us. I would like to say, it has been amazing to see everyone who's posted their concerns, ideas, possible solutions and so on. The information, suggestions and outcomes have been noticed and I am sure all of us appreciate the attention this thread has rightfully earned. I feel it is only fair for us to give credit where it is due. @Linden Lab and @Lindens in general, thank you for hearing us out, for taking action in this thread and proving that you actually do care about the residents and our business because as I see it, you can't have one without the other. Also, thank you for all the financial reassessment reversals. We; as residents may not always agree with policy choices or changes, however, I chose to believe we can find some common ground to stand on. There is no simple solution to; what I feel; is a web abuse epidemic. However, as some have already stated, we are stronger together as long as we stay vigilant, united and most importantly communicate. I would also like to thank @connorboy26 for creating a group for resellers to and I quote; from the group's description, this group is for Gacha resellers to communicate, report suspected behavior, stay updated on policy changes and warn of possible copybotter accounts. To the web team, I am new to these meetings, but, I can see the value in them now and I look forward to attending the monthly meetings to offer my own ideas and suggestions on how to better the MP and make it more secure for all involved. Another Linden team needing recognition is the fraud team, who is kicking it into gear. We see certain stores disappearing and I want to personally thank you for it; it has been long overdue.

After having listened to the governance meeting from yesterday I am confident in leaving everything listed as is. I say this because, @ Kristin Linden said, if we have future assessments against us, to file a ticket to her team as Patch had stated a few pages back and she and her team will look into it. I feel better about continuing to list on the MP knowing this problem has gained the Lindens attention and they are taking action on our behalf. I understand policy review / change isn't going to happen over night. This problem isn't going to magically disappear either. I refuse to allow thieves to run me off or keep me from doing something I love to do and enjoy. As long as Linden Labs and the Lindens continue to support us and hear our concerns and take action. I won't stop. I won't coward to thievery. This is just my feelings on this topic and how I chose to proceed. I encourage all of you to do what is best for you and your business.

Wed User Meeting is the 1st Wednesday of the month @ 200pm SLT / Location - http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Denby/73/78/25 - For anyone wanting to attend. The Web group is held in bot voice and text. Thanks to @InaraPey for the information.

I will give you an example. For the December round of Arcade, a popular hair designer (left out for discretion) had a gacha. A well known copybotter copied the rare(s). I purchased one myself to check its authenticity. Myself and others knew for a fact this person had to be doing it. I played that gacha "a lot" and I never got as many as ten rares to be listed all at once. A few of us kept an eye on this person and those particular listings. As soon as it got low enough the quantity went back up to ten. I, personally contacted the creator of the gacha. He and I went through the rare gacha I bought from said person. He had no record of them playing his gacha. And yet, this person had a multitude of his Arcade gacha. From what I have been told, you cannot copy scripts, its impossible. The creator and I checked the rare I bought from this person from top to bottom and his name was the creator on all of it. How is that possible when the creator had no record of their playing? Yes, gachas are transferable. It sure is shady and appears unrealistic that they received the hair legitimately. Lately, when you see MP stores popping up with nothing but cheap rares and that is ALL they have. It has been my experience so far, they are copied and an illegal sale. I have checked on this store periodically and as of yesterday it was still active; today its gone. It took Linden Labs months to finally remove this store from the MP. Copybotting is a virtual epidemic, period. I wanted it bring some attention to it as much as we have with fraudulent MP purchases. It is getting ridiculously worse as the years go by. I feel we need a quicker system in place to not only report them but also taking them down and legally penalizing these thieves. They are obviously smart enough to get around IP bans and start anew. I am grateful Linden Labs has finally removed the fraudulent MP store but it took months to do it. I think about all the sales; we as legitimate reseller have lost due to these copybotting thieves. I hoped this helped, if not; please feel free to contact me and we can discuss it further.

I had have mine returned to me as well; Your case has been escalated to me for further review. I am sorry to hear about issues you’ve encountered regarding some recent Linden Dollar assessments from your account. After conducting a secondary review, we have reversed the assessments totaling L$????? from your account between the dates of 12/21/2019 - 2/2/2020. This should now be reflected in your Linden Dollar balance. We apologize for any frustration and inconvenience this may have caused, and are working on improving this process to reduce the negative impact on our Residents. Please feel free to let me know if you have any questions or need further assistance. Sincerely, Kristin Linden Thank you to all the Lindens involved in this reversal. I am deeply appreciative. Even though, we have raised our voices this time. This still remains a consistent; serious flawed policy. I will be more diligent in paying attention to this forum and what is happening within not only the gacha community but its entirety. We all take time away from our families for either fun, business or otherwise and everyone deserves to be treated fairly; especially when it comes to compensation against fraudulent MP purchases. I am thrilled to see others receiving reversed assessments. For now, we are being appeased with reversals please do not give up on policy reviews / changes. As previously stated in submitting my state driver's license and social card to Linden Labs for verification. I would also support 2FA for additional protection against thief. I also feel we need to have a new flag that alerts Lindens to copybotted content. As it is now, there is no real good choice for reporting what we find in terms of copybotting. Fraudulent MP purchases are hurtful to all of us but so is copybotting. Anytime we have a BIG gacha event I see them more than I do fraudulent MP purchases. As someone else said, it ruins the market. The market is our bread and butter and without the market Linden Labs takes a huge pay cut.

I have had my own losses however they are not as grave as so many others in this thread. Lately the withdraw happens without being notified. The only way I know of the loss is by looking at my transaction history and seeing a recovery linden; linden adjustment, CSR moved linden dollars. Then I have to run down the amount in my emails to see what the loss actually was. Is anyone else having this problem? I am in agreement with a few of the suggested ideas. As in, offering us the ability to turn off sending the items as a gift. As a reseller, I have noticed a lot of my sales are sent as gifts to others and I would say 95% of the time I don't have a problem with it being sent as a gift. However with these recent Linden Lab financial increase changes across the board and the unfortunate MP fraudulent purchases isn't reassuring as a reseller. There has and needs to be a way for the middle man to be compensated. The creator of the gacha receives our thoroughly vetted income from Linden Labs (speaking in the terms of those who have verified their ATM / Credit Card and identity through the Linden Lab process.) What I don't understand and can't wrap my head around is, I had to scan the front and back of my state driver license along with my social security card to actually be verified! How are these thieves getting away with it?! Why can't we have some type of way to notify each other of copybotters and call them out for who they truly are? I am by no means read up on the laws but here is a thought. Even though Second Life is an open source program and they offer the service for free. Linden Labs is also a program that transitions fake money into a real life income. Is it not against the law to take without offering compensation or having given the person their product back? Is this not a possible lawsuit waiting to happen? (Which I am NOT suggesting) this is beyond unfair.