TessaPaige Jupiter Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 WOW, some MP sellers have been hit extremely hard by these fraudsters! This happened to me in January but it was not nearly as bad as some of you have been hit. I was devastated to find out that $747L was taken out of my account for a fraud issue. I was also quite disappointed that I did not receive my item back. I am a new Gacha reseller and have gone full steam ahead into investing in merchandise. I submitted a ticket immediately after receiving the email from LL but never received a response. I just submitted another ticket after my friend directed me to this thread. I hope that I can get a refund and not have to worry about my massive financial investments in gacha merchandise. Now the question is how can we as sellers protect ourselves from this kind of fraud and will LL not penalize us for the fraud moving forward? Will we have to continue submitting tickets? Is it safe to sell RARES again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanja Byron Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I hope LL takes this as an opportunity to closely follow the transactions and maybe take a look at MP shops, where our things have now ended up to see the context 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alma Draegonne Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I have put my items up for sale, after talking with Kristin, I feel more protected. I think this incident will make them work more on this issue, and I hope they also start controlling copybot, because I think it is related to account theft, in every way it is also a big problem, as we all know. I am very glad that are working on it, until now we were totally unprotected against this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TessaPaige Jupiter Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Thank you @Patch Linden and LL for the return of funds from the fraudulent sale! You rock! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashaspooky Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 8 hours ago, TessaPaige Jupiter said: WOW, some MP sellers have been hit extremely hard by these fraudsters! This happened to me in January but it was not nearly as bad as some of you have been hit. I was devastated to find out that $747L was taken out of my account for a fraud issue. I was also quite disappointed that I did not receive my item back. I am a new Gacha reseller and have gone full steam ahead into investing in merchandise. I submitted a ticket immediately after receiving the email from LL but never received a response. I just submitted another ticket after my friend directed me to this thread. I hope that I can get a refund and not have to worry about my massive financial investments in gacha merchandise. Now the question is how can we as sellers protect ourselves from this kind of fraud and will LL not penalize us for the fraud moving forward? Will we have to continue submitting tickets? Is it safe to sell RARES again? You have raised some valid points. I doubt we will ever know the all the details to this hacking situation. It could be just a talented computer whiz who decided to have some "harmless" fun or like the grievers of years back, where a few tricksters turned into an organization that started competing among themselves to see how much damage they could cause before being booted. This is something that the citizens of SL will never know, but we do have tools at our disposal to help keep ourselves safe. I have posted suggestions in previous posts of what to do if there is a suspected fraud issue, and instead of reposting, just scroll back and read them. the biggest tool/weapon we have is communication. by staying alert and investigating what you may believe to be fraud, will help stem the damage done. By contacting the account owner, you learn whether this was a real purchase or fraud, and the account holder can report it. By doing this will also benefit the gacha sellers on MP, word will spread and potential buyer will know that the dealers on MP have their backs. When it comes to the re-evaluation that LL is currently doing, they have not announced how far back they are going to look. It does not seem likely they will go back for than a few months since so many people come and go from SL. It would be reasonable that they concentrate on claims from the beginning of this year and move forward.The lose of the sold item, is regrettable, but to be expected. Since it is just a cyber object, once the accounts are deleted, their inventory disappears as well. LL will never hold a huge yard sale of confiscated hacker inventories, As it stands, sellers are being reimbursed for the items and since the goal was to sell them to begin with, getting the money back from LL is technically them buying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessi Tyran Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) A serious issue was brought up and how it was affecting each of us. I would like to say, it has been amazing to see everyone who's posted their concerns, ideas, possible solutions and so on. The information, suggestions and outcomes have been noticed and I am sure all of us appreciate the attention this thread has rightfully earned. I feel it is only fair for us to give credit where it is due. @Linden Lab and @Lindens in general, thank you for hearing us out, for taking action in this thread and proving that you actually do care about the residents and our business because as I see it, you can't have one without the other. Also, thank you for all the financial reassessment reversals. We; as residents may not always agree with policy choices or changes, however, I chose to believe we can find some common ground to stand on. There is no simple solution to; what I feel; is a web abuse epidemic. However, as some have already stated, we are stronger together as long as we stay vigilant, united and most importantly communicate. I would also like to thank @connorboy26 for creating a group for resellers to and I quote; from the group's description, this group is for Gacha resellers to communicate, report suspected behavior, stay updated on policy changes and warn of possible copybotter accounts. To the web team, I am new to these meetings, but, I can see the value in them now and I look forward to attending the monthly meetings to offer my own ideas and suggestions on how to better the MP and make it more secure for all involved. Another Linden team needing recognition is the fraud team, who is kicking it into gear. We see certain stores disappearing and I want to personally thank you for it; it has been long overdue. Edited February 7, 2020 by Dessi Tyran 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristan Careless Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 annnnnnnd the assessments start again. Just relisted some items of lesser value to see if it continues. Will follow the protocol laid out by Patch and contact Kristin, personally, if I don't get the same result this go around. Sigh. Glad to see my new friends, as well as my very old, best ones, have been refunded. It's a good day and I'm heading to the hot sun. Peace out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lina90900 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Dear lina90900 Resident, We regret to inform you that the L$ recently sent to you may have been obtained through an unauthorized source. Per the Terms of Service and due to the manner in which the L$ were originally obtained, the L$ have been voided from your account. L$2250 that was sent on 1/31/2020 have been assessed. We understand the fraudulent Linden Dollars were used to purchase item(s) from your store. As stated in our Privacy Policy, we are unable to discuss another person’s account. While we cannot return the items to you, we can assure you every measure has been taken to secure the accounts and reduce the impact of this fraudulent transaction. I could not even think that Linden lab withdraws money from users ' accounts for this reason. The thief came to the store and bought something .is the store or seller to blame? he doesn't know what the money is, does he? moreover, the payment itself is skipped by the market place system .it's a shame that this is a Gacha that is in one instance and often you collect it in small details from many parts that would collect the entire set .it is wrong that the seller is suffering. Punish the criminal, but not the seller . After all, it turns out that we were also robbed, taking both goods and money . This is not fair, and I would be happy if Linden lab got either the money or the kit back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarquisdeSadeJustine Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, lina90900 said: Dear lina90900 Resident, We regret to inform you that the L$ recently sent to you may have been obtained through an unauthorized source. Per the Terms of Service and due to the manner in which the L$ were originally obtained, the L$ have been voided from your account. L$2250 that was sent on 1/31/2020 have been assessed. We understand the fraudulent Linden Dollars were used to purchase item(s) from your store. As stated in our Privacy Policy, we are unable to discuss another person’s account. While we cannot return the items to you, we can assure you every measure has been taken to secure the accounts and reduce the impact of this fraudulent transaction. I could not even think that Linden lab withdraws money from users ' accounts for this reason. The thief came to the store and bought something .is the store or seller to blame? he doesn't know what the money is, does he? moreover, the payment itself is skipped by the market place system .it's a shame that this is a Gacha that is in one instance and often you collect it in small details from many parts that would collect the entire set .it is wrong that the seller is suffering. Punish the criminal, but not the seller . After all, it turns out that we were also robbed, taking both goods and money . This is not fair, and I would be happy if Linden lab got either the money or the kit back. 1 hour ago, lina90900 said: Dear lina90900 Resident, We regret to inform you that the L$ recently sent to you may have been obtained through an unauthorized source. Per the Terms of Service and due to the manner in which the L$ were originally obtained, the L$ have been voided from your account. L$2250 that was sent on 1/31/2020 have been assessed. We understand the fraudulent Linden Dollars were used to purchase item(s) from your store. As stated in our Privacy Policy, we are unable to discuss another person’s account. While we cannot return the items to you, we can assure you every measure has been taken to secure the accounts and reduce the impact of this fraudulent transaction. I could not even think that Linden lab withdraws money from users ' accounts for this reason. The thief came to the store and bought something .is the store or seller to blame? he doesn't know what the money is, does he? moreover, the payment itself is skipped by the market place system .it's a shame that this is a Gacha that is in one instance and often you collect it in small details from many parts that would collect the entire set .it is wrong that the seller is suffering. Punish the criminal, but not the seller . After all, it turns out that we were also robbed, taking both goods and money . This is not fair, and I would be happy if Linden lab got either the money or the kit back. 3 hours ago, Tristan Careless said: annnnnnnd the assessments start again. Just relisted some items of lesser value to see if it continues. Will follow the protocol laid out by Patch and contact Kristin, personally, if I don't get the same result this go around. Sigh. Glad to see my new friends, as well as my very old, best ones, have been refunded. It's a good day and I'm heading to the hot sun. Peace out! 3 hours ago, Tristan Careless said: annnnnnnd the assessments start again. Just relisted some items of lesser value to see if it continues. Will follow the protocol laid out by Patch and contact Kristin, personally, if I don't get the same result this go around. Sigh. Glad to see my new friends, as well as my very old, best ones, have been refunded. It's a good day and I'm heading to the hot sun. Peace out! omg.. let us know how it works out.. 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashaspooky Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Hello, posted a few days ago that during my hacking incident the account holder had money taken from her bank account and it was used to buy more lindens. Well, just spoke with her and not only did she get all her lindens back, they reversed the linden purchases and the money is back in her account. THANK YOU LINDEN LABS. YOU DID A GREAT THING. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 54 minutes ago, sashaspooky said: Hello, posted a few days ago that during my hacking incident the account holder had money taken from her bank account and it was used to buy more lindens. Well, just spoke with her and not only did she get all her lindens back, they reversed the linden purchases and the money is back in her account. THANK YOU LINDEN LABS. YOU DID A GREAT THING. To be fair, this was standard practice already. When an account gets stolen and lindens drained, they do get those lindens back. Those "reassessments" should always go right back to the account that was used to buy your items, not just removed from you. Same thing with unauthorized L$ purchases. Even if LL didn't refund the money, the bank could force a charge-back (or otherwise refund, depending what the insurance policy of the bank is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashaspooky Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said: To be fair, this was standard practice already. When an account gets stolen and lindens drained, they do get those lindens back. Those "reassessments" should always go right back to the account that was used to buy your items, not just removed from you. Same thing with unauthorized L$ purchases. Even if LL didn't refund the money, the bank could force a charge-back (or otherwise refund, depending what the insurance policy of the bank is). The concern of this account holder is that since she had her card info on file with SL and had previously purchased Lindens in the past, she was concerned that getting it all straightened out would take time. She also did not want the problem of her account being frozen while it was sorted. She lives in Puerto Rico and has already had a rough time this past few years, so more problems is something she did not need. Thankfully LL took charge and saved her from a stressful time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Tater Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 18 hours ago, TessaPaige Jupiter said: WOW, some MP sellers have been hit extremely hard by these fraudsters! This happened to me in January but it was not nearly as bad as some of you have been hit. I was devastated to find out that $747L was taken out of my account for a fraud issue. I was also quite disappointed that I did not receive my item back. I am a new Gacha reseller and have gone full steam ahead into investing in merchandise. I submitted a ticket immediately after receiving the email from LL but never received a response. I just submitted another ticket after my friend directed me to this thread. I hope that I can get a refund and not have to worry about my massive financial investments in gacha merchandise. Now the question is how can we as sellers protect ourselves from this kind of fraud and will LL not penalize us for the fraud moving forward? Will we have to continue submitting tickets? Is it safe to sell RARES again? I have the same problem that has been happening since January 2020, and it happened today again. Linden has already withdrawn from my L $ 19,500 account, from my gacha store in the market, claiming that the lindens they used to buy originate from fraud, only it is Linden's word and they do not go into details saying what fraud was and who committed. I've already opened 4 tickets and they don't return my lindens. What happens is that the seller who pays for the crime committed by other residents, and Linden, who should offer security in transactions, chooses to go by the easiest way that is to penalize the seller. The buyer who theoretically committed the fraud, and the resident who wins the gift go unpunished, it's us the merchants are left with no money and no items that are NO COPY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Tater Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 5 hours ago, lina90900 said: I could not even think that Linden lab withdraws money from users ' accounts for this reason. The thief came to the store and bought something .is the store or seller to blame? he doesn't know what the money is, does he? moreover, the payment itself is skipped by the market place system .it's a shame that this is a Gacha that is in one instance and often you collect it in small details from many parts that would collect the entire set .it is wrong that the seller is suffering. Punish the criminal, but not the seller . After all, it turns out that we were also robbed, taking both goods and money . This is not fair, and I would be happy if Linden lab got either the money or the kit back. 1105/5000 I fully agree with you. I have the same problem that has been happening since January 2020, and it happened today again. Linden has already withdrawn from my L $ 19,500 account, from my gacha store in the market, claiming that the lindens they used to buy originate from fraud, only it is Linden's word and they do not go into details saying what fraud was and who committed. I've already opened 4 tickets and they don't return my lindens. What happens is that the seller who pays for the crime committed by other residents, and Linden, who should offer security in transactions, chooses to go the easiest way, which is to penalize the seller. The buyer who theoretically committed the fraud, and the resident who wins the gift go unpunished, it is us the merchants who are left with no money and no items that are NO COPY. The commissions we pay Linden for our sales on the Market should guarantee the financial insecurity of the market place platform. Criminals go unpunished and we lose real time and money. If anyone is to blame for all this, it is not us salespeople. I'm really upset about it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanja Byron Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 On 2/4/2020 at 4:38 PM, Patch Linden said: Hi everyone! I wanted to give you an update on what we’re working on. The assessment process is not one that is typically handled by the Governance or Support teams for Second Life, however, we are here to help with it. As we continue to review the processes and policies that are currently in place with the team handling it, we have come up with an interim solution of putting a direct review process in place for anyone that has an assessment made to an account within our teams. If you’ve had an assessment levied against your account and would like to have our team further review it, please file a support ticket using Issue Type: Marketplace > General Marketplace Issues. Rest assured that we are working on a way to make this process as painless, efficient and non-penalizing as possible going forward. We appreciate your patience as we work towards that together with all of you. Do not follow the link in the email but open a ticket as Patch Linden describes it! So not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alma Draegonne Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Ferba Ferraris said: 1105/5000 I fully agree with you. I have the same problem that has been happening since January 2020, and it happened today again. Linden has already withdrawn from my L $ 19,500 account, from my gacha store in the market, claiming that the lindens they used to buy originate from fraud, only it is Linden's word and they do not go into details saying what fraud was and who committed. I've already opened 4 tickets and they don't return my lindens. What happens is that the seller who pays for the crime committed by other residents, and Linden, who should offer security in transactions, chooses to go the easiest way, which is to penalize the seller. The buyer who theoretically committed the fraud, and the resident who wins the gift go unpunished, it is us the merchants who are left with no money and no items that are NO COPY. The commissions we pay Linden for our sales on the Market should guarantee the financial insecurity of the market place platform. Criminals go unpunished and we lose real time and money. If anyone is to blame for all this, it is not us salespeople. I'm really upset about it all. It happened to me the same, but it turns out that all departments do not work the same, I sent 4 tickets, and in the end they returned the money, you must send it to Marketplace> General Marketplace Issues. There I sent 2, the first one was not answered, the second one solved it for me Yesterday I sent another, since they removed about 47000l again. I trust they'll give them back to me ... Edited February 7, 2020 by Alma Draegonne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarquisdeSadeJustine Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Alma Draegonne said: It happened to me the same, but it turns out that all departments do not work the same, I sent 4 tickets, and in the end they returned the money, you must send it to Marketplace> General Marketplace Issues. There I sent 2, the first one was not answered, the second one solved it for me Yesterday I sent another, since they removed about 47000l again. I trust they'll give them back to me ... they took money again Alma? what were the dates of the purchases, were these new hacks? Edited February 7, 2020 by MarquisdeSadeJustine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Rothmoor Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 I had another Linden adjustment yesterday for a purchase from the 2/2/2020. I have opened a new case hopefully it will be resolved promptly. I still stand with what I have been saying from the start. The Labs need to implement two tier verification as fast as possible. We need to cut off these criminals from the money. No money no incentive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alma Draegonne Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, MarquisdeSadeJustine said: they took money again Alma? what were the dates of the purchases, were these new hacks? The purchases were made on 2/2/2020, I was connected when it happened, I immediately checked the purchases and saw that they were being sent to a newly created account. (That account was deleted within a few minutes). The person who made the purchases was connected and I talked to him, I told him about the purchases, that I was sure it was a stolen account and that I was going to report it to LL. He did not answer me and continued to spend money considerably. Report it to LL immediately, with data, names and screenshots, a report in the world and a ticket. That ticket was sent to Marketplace> General Marketplace Issues. And it was in process until yesterday, which closed without response. In the afternoon my money was withdrawn. Edited February 7, 2020 by Alma Draegonne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Alma Draegonne said: He did not answer me and continued to spend money considerably. Note: you also could have blocked him. At that moment he could no longer make any purchase from your MP store. When you block someone in-world, it also blocks them from making Marketplace purchases from you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Rothmoor Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor said: I had another Linden adjustment yesterday for a purchase from the 2/2/2020. I have opened a new case hopefully it will be resolved promptly. I still stand with what I have been saying from the start. The Labs need to implement two tier verification as fast as possible. We need to cut off these criminals from the money. No money no incentive. Super fast resolution from Kristin and the team! Edited February 7, 2020 by GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alma Draegonne Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alyona Su said: Note: you also could have blocked him. At that moment he could no longer make any purchase from your MP store. When you block someone in-world, it also blocks them from making Marketplace purchases from you. Now I know, I read it a few days ago in this same forum, but when it happened I didn't know. Thank you! Right now they returned the money that LL discounted me yesterday, for "fraudulent purchases." Kristin solved it again Edited February 7, 2020 by Alma Draegonne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Tomcat Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 One question to understand this all correct: You all receive those fraudulent money back from LL only when you sell no copy items and you lost the item, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarquisdeSadeJustine Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Well this is a gacha community forum, I’m not sure what they do about copy items, I would guess if it’s a copy item you never actually lose it 😊 but if it was bought with fraudulent Lindens then they’ve been assessing the accounts and reversing the charges so we’re stuck with them which here lies the biggest problem. they do have the ability to give us our stuff back if they find it but if they refunded our money for the item they’re not going to give us the item back too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, GrandDukeDylan Rothmoor said: Super fast resolution: This is wonderful, though posting Linden Lab communications like this is a no-no on forum rules, so you may want to abridge that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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