Private Investigations on the Grid?

[Amina Sopwith]

41 minutes ago, PookieTM said:

Wow why so hostile towards the OP? Are you one of these unfaithful spouses and you're scared of getting caught or something? Her idea seemed like a lot of fun and if private investigators are a thing irl, why not have them in SL?

 Wut.

I followed the thread vaguely with absolutely nothing to say until OP admitted that she hadn't thought of people using alts, or that having an escort service at the same time might show a conflict of interest. Seriously, she hadn't thought of THAT? In addition, she's made comments about her motivation that will completely alienate her potential clients if they read them. If you suspected your spouse of foul play and were considering hiring a PI, how would you feel if said PI freely admitted that she was in it because she got off on you paying her to bang your partner? And intended to write about it? Would you want to book her?

And to cap it all, she apparently works in marketing? 

This isn't hostility. Nor is it moral outrage; I'm not of the view that OP or anyone else is responsible for other people's relationships. It's sheer perplexity. As I said, I just cannot believe that anyone who goes about this endeavour so badly is serious about it. Is it a troll? It's a good one if so, because tbh it does come off as genuine apart from the fact that it's so completely screwy.

So yeah, OP...keep it to overt roleplay.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Amina Sopwith

[Caroline Takeda]

13 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Not only that, but you intend to publicise the experiences.

Which is my core business!
It even does make me real money, every month!

/me points to signature...

 

[Amina Sopwith]

5 minutes ago, carolinestravels said:

Which is my core business!
It even does make me real money, every month!

/me points to signature...

 

(Can't be bothered to check signature, sorry.)

Perhaps, but you're not supposed to draw that to the attention of the supporting business' customer base, fgs! Come on, you work in marketing, apparently. Your core aim may honestly be to make money or get off on being paid to shag other people's husbands (again, you'd have done that every day in escorting), but your job is to make customers think that what you really care about is them!

I still can't get over the fact that you hadn't even thought of cheaters using alts. I could understand if you had some strategy to try to find out if they had alts, or just didn't care enough about the work to bother with that, but I'm amazed that it didn't even occur to you as an issue.

Just keep it to overt roleplay, seriously. I'm sure you can still write about that. Or you can just make it up. That's what most marketing is about, especially online. (Yeah, I work in a related industry. Don't get me started....)
 

 

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

Maybe I should pay for some decent PI work rather than stick these to telephone poles the whole time.

It's a lead statuette that's not really worth much. It's got enormous emotional value to me though.

[Caroline Takeda]

Hello folks,

Opinions, answers. Very good, thanks for that.

A short resume:

1. If the cheater uses an ALT, there is not much I can do. Hence the service must include some kind of "test my partner service". How far I go in the individual case depends (of course!) on what the client authorizes.

2. There are no problems with the TOS, unless I share IM chats.

3. I have to clearly separte this from anything that has to do with my escort club. Actually I am thinking about using my "pre-caroline main" account. Nobody knows that she is associated to Caroline or SLA Media in any shape or form. maybe it would even make sense to set up a separte blog for those stories. Don't know yet.

4. Overt Roleplay or semi roleplay is an option, as it might create stories easier, depending on demand. If I find that  there is little or no demand for such services a roleplay character is certainly an option.

I am not sure however, what the term "overt roleplay"  implies. I know what it translates to in my native tongue, but not entirely sure what it exactly means. Could somebody shed some light on this, please?

Btw: I haven't started or executed any of that yet. All options still open though.

Edited January 23, 2019 by carolinestravels

[Resi Pfeffer]

On 1/19/2019 at 12:22 PM, carolinestravels said:

I used to really enjoy being an escort girl. But I feel it is time to start something new. That occurred to me recently when I realized I had lost count of how many guys I "serviced" so far. I met somebody who claimed to have had sex with me and I could not remember him at all.

It is getting boring. Hence time for a change! 

Someone told me, there is a very popular adult addon for females, what literally sticks in a sticky way to your skin. And if you open the menu of that addon, it will give you a list of all the guys using a scripted dick you have been "connected" with.

[Amina Sopwith]

1 hour ago, carolinestravels said:

I am not sure however, what the term "overt roleplay"  implies. I know what it translates to in my native tongue, but not entirely sure what it exactly means. Could somebody shed some light on this, please?
 

I was using it to mean established roleplay, so probably as a character within an RP sim, as part of a greater interactive community. In other words, acting it out with other roleplayers who are all in on it, and not trying to genuinely spy other users and expose their activities to others without their consent.

If you do this, you need to be prepared for ARs. I'm not saying LL will necessarily take any action, I'm not a TOS expert. But I can see how your marks might try to make a case against you with regard to stalking, harassment or similar. Make sure your defence is watertight. There's likely some room for interpretation in the relevant clauses. 

Everything you've said here suggests that your primary motivations are to act out taboo roles and get fodder for your writing (a blog with ads, I'm guessing? Never mind, doesn't matter). You can do this without exposing yourself to all the potential pitfalls if you just establish it as what, for a lack of a better term, I'm calling "overt roleplay".

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, carolinestravels said:

Hello folks,

Opinions, answers. Very good, thanks for that.

A short resume:

1. If the cheater uses an ALT, there is not much I can do. Hence the service must include some kind of "test my partner service". How far I go in the individual case depends (of course!) on what the client authorizes.

2. There are no problems with the TOS, unless I share IM chats.

3. I have to clearly separte this from anything that has to do with my escort club. Actually I am thinking about using my "pre-caroline main" account. Nobody knows that she is associated to Caroline or SLA Media in any shape or form. maybe it would even make sense to set up a separte blog for those stories. Don't know yet.

4. Overt Roleplay or semi roleplay is an option, as it might create stories easier, depending on demand. If I find that  there is little or no demand for such services a roleplay character is certainly an option.

I am not sure however, what the term "overt roleplay"  implies. I know what it translates to in my native tongue, but not entirely sure what it exactly means. Could somebody shed some light on this, please?

Btw: I haven't started or executed any of that yet. All options still open though.

They better start with a definition of rp first, since there isn't even a consensus on what THAT means.

Better yet, Just read my signature line and carry on

[BilliJo Aldrin]

12 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I was using it to mean established roleplay, so probably as a character within an RP sim, as part of a greater interactive community. In other words, acting it out with other roleplayers who are all in on it, and not trying to genuinely spy other users and expose their activities to others without their consent.

If you do this, you need to be prepared for ARs. I'm not saying LL will necessarily take any action, I'm not a TOS expert. But I can see how your marks might try to make a case against you with regard to stalking, harassment or similar. Make sure your defence is watertight. There's likely some room for interpretation in the relevant clauses. 

Everything you've said here suggests that your primary motivations are to act out taboo roles and get fodder for your writing (a blog with ads, I'm guessing? Never mind, doesn't matter). You can do this without exposing yourself to all the potential pitfalls if you just establish it as what, for a lack of a better term, I'm calling "overt roleplay".

 

Your RP scenario totally negates the OPs original stated purpose.

Edited January 23, 2019 by BilliJo Aldrin
changed stuff

[Amina Sopwith]

I should add, as you'd expect in what I'm defining as "overt roleplay", no money would be changing hands either. Unless it's an in-sim game currency.

 

[Amina Sopwith]

And since I'm back here and delaying going to the gym, a few more thoughts...

 

6 hours ago, carolinestravels said:

1. If the cheater uses an ALT, there is not much I can do. Hence the service must include some kind of "test my partner service". How far I go in the individual case depends (of course!) on what the client authorizes.

You'll probably need to tell them what you can do that they themselves, with an alt, can't. I would imagine that they would have the advantage over you in that because they presumably know their partner better than you do, and therefore have a better idea of what to say or do to tempt them. Plus they can focus themselves on their case, whereas you may have several to juggle at a time.
 

6 hours ago, carolinestravels said:

2. There are no problems with the TOS, unless I share IM chats.

Could well be, but I would imagine that a lot of people who have been sanctioned as the result of an AR, either in the forum or inworld, believe that they've done nothing against the TOS. I'm not an expert on the TOS, and I'm definitely not going to comb through them for the purposes of this discussion, but I can imagine that there are probably arguable cases that could be made if you're specifically following someone with the intention of doing something they don't want. ARs may well come to nothing but I would read the TOS and think carefully about how they might be interpreted by an angry, exposed mark.

In fact, why not tag and ask a Linden to be sure?

 

6 hours ago, carolinestravels said:

3. I have to clearly separte this from anything that has to do with my escort club. Actually I am thinking about using my "pre-caroline main" account. Nobody knows that she is associated to Caroline or SLA Media in any shape or form. maybe it would even make sense to set up a separte blog for those stories. Don't know yet.

That is probably a good idea. I can't see myself ever being in the market for an SL PI, but if I were, I definitely would not hire you, based on the comments you've made here. I don't mean to be rude or make a personal attack. I'm just putting myself in the shoes of your presumed customer base and imagining how I would respond to the way you've branded yourself here. A clean, unattributable slate is probably best.

Anyway. You say in your very first post that it is "not really about making money" just as well and go on to say that you're motivated largely by having fun, acting out something taboo and getting fodder for your blog or whatever. If these are your primary drivers, overt roleplay will cover the bases.

Instead of a PI, perhaps you could find a dark urban or film noir style sim, and RP being an undercover or investigative journalist who moonlights as an escort and picks up stories from the johns. You'd get to combine your fantasies and you wouldn't have to rely on other people to bring activity to you; you could generate it yourself.

[Selene Gregoire]

Caroline, the main reason you are being discouraged from following through with your idea is because others have done this sort of thing over the past 15 years and it always ended badly for those involved.

These stories don't necessarily reflect the bad endings, just that it has been done before.

2005: https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2005/03/watching_the_de.html

2009: http://alphavilleherald.com/2009/02/private-eyes-for-hire-in-sl.html

2010: http://forums-archive.secondlife.com/327/2c/360752/1.html

2015: 

 

One group that popped up on google search: https://my.secondlife.com/groups/ad67bc43-48ba-6b90-0a30-a72e5ce5b314?id=ad67bc43-48ba-6b90-0a30-a72e5ce5b314

Perhaps the best thing for you to do is draw up a "business plan" and present it to a Linden for ToS violations review. Ask one of the forum mods for help. You can PM them just like everyone else.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[BilliJo Aldrin]

58 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

----- cases that could be made if you're specifically following someone with the intention of doing something they don't want. ------

How is she forcing the guy shes following to do something he doesn't want to do? If he is cheating on his wife its because he wants to cheat. If the OP gets him in bed with her its because he wants to be in bed with her. Everything is consensual everything is agreed to. 

Every time a married man hops into bed with someone other than his partner hes taking a risk that for whatever reason, the woman hes in bed with will take pictures and share them.

Oh wait I get it, the doing something he doesn't want is his wife finding out.

😁

 

[Qie Niangao]

5 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I should add, as you'd expect in what I'm defining as "overt roleplay", no money would be changing hands either. Unless it's an in-sim game currency.

At first I thought this "Private Investigations" thing was a natural sideline for escorts, both charging real money for (presumably stellar) role-play.

Later I realized that, as formulated, it's organic horizontal integration from escort services: the "investigator" lures the client's spouse into a bout of infidelity -- so the more effective the temptress, the better for business, exactly the same as in the escort line of work. It doesn't really matter whether the spouse ever cheated before, or ever would cheat were it not for the charms of the "investigator". Those L$s spend just as well, entrapment or not.

There's plenty of opportunity to expand into extortion and racketeering -- all industries with much better margins than pre-portioned grocery delivery.

[Amina Sopwith]

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

At first I thought this "Private Investigations" thing was a natural sideline for escorts, both charging real money for (presumably stellar) role-play.

Later I realized that, as formulated, it's organic horizontal integration from escort services: the "investigator" lures the client's spouse into a bout of infidelity -- so the more effective the temptress, the better for business, exactly the same as in the escort line of work. It doesn't really matter whether the spouse ever cheated before, or ever would cheat were it not for the charms of the "investigator". Those L$s spend just as well, entrapment or not.

There's plenty of opportunity to expand into extortion and racketeering -- all industries with much better margins than pre-portioned grocery delivery.

OP hasn't said anything about blackmailing her marks for Ls, but if someone did this, LL might take a dim view of it. I don't know how a PI related exposé would be treated if it were ARed, but blackmail somehow seems more serious.

[Lindal Kidd]

Qie!  Such jaded cynicism is the last thing I'd've expected from you!

 

 

Funny, though!

[Prokofy Neva]

On 1/19/2019 at 6:22 AM, carolinestravels said:

 

 

Hello fellow Residents,

I had a fun idea the other day. I am becoming together with my friend Tobi a private eye in Second Life.

I did set up an office and  got some interesting equipment. My main clientele will probably jealous partnered residents who wants me to spy on their partners. I will also dig deep into US copyright laws, Linden Lab procedures and such. I would imagine creators might need some inworld research and investigations from time to time.

It is not really about making money. I just think I could be a good detective and this could give my Second Life a different fun twist.

I used to really enjoy being an escort girl. But I feel it is time to start something new. That occurred to me recently when I realized I had lost count of how many guys I "serviced" so far. I met somebody who claimed to have had sex with me and I could not remember him at all.

It is getting boring. Hence time for a change! 

 

 

That was a great idea to advertise your new PI firm by posing as a thinky thread on the forums. BTW rent my land -- but not for this.

I don't see that there is anything in this activity that actually violates the TOS of Linden Lab or RL law -- which in any case would have a very, very hard time being applied in a world with anonymous people with nicknames whose real identity you cannot determine.

I don't know if you realize there have been a zillion such detective firms in SL, some just RP, some trying to really follow people and get dirt on them. I've kicked out some of them from my rentals, sometimes for commercial activity in residential areas, some times because they are spying on people and violating their privacy, and bans aren't always enough because they make more anonymous alts.

You may not be old enough to remember this riotous incident involving a justice group that began to compile a data base on griefers -- who really were griefers and were well-documented as such -- and those griefers being savvy enough to invoke privacy laws, copyright laws, blah blah in their usual word-salad gyration -- and getting it to stick with nervous liberals. LL then winds up protecting bad actors for fear of RL lawsuits.

If someone does not trust an SL partner because essentially they are an anonymous being on the Internet, where you don't even know if they are male or female or what they are, then they have more problems than your PI firm can help them with. Their problem starts with the nature of the relationship they've decided to trust -- an online one.

Yet zillions of people form happy SL relations, some of them lasting years and years, very much like RL ones, with real sorrow when that person dies in RL. So it's not trivial. It's a choice people make, and that's fine. Can you help them in this choice? I wonder...

Because the bad actor can always make another alt. Somebody determined to cheat on an SL spouse or partner will do that. You catch one of them -- they make another. 

One thing you have to be wary of is a game frequently played in SL called "let's exploit the TOS in our own vendetta." So let's say you stalk this no-good cheating hubby, and you get his chat log proving he's a cheater -- from him or from his new partner or merely from room chat. You now take that chat and send it to his suspicious spouse. That spouse confronts him. Bingo, that cheating hubby now can rightfully AR his suspicious wife for violating the rule on disseminating chat logs.

Publishing chat logs outside of SL is not a crime that LL can pursue and it won't and that's important for all the Net Nannies to remember. But publishing inside through sending to someone outside the conversation is punishable.

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

11 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Caroline, the main reason you are being discouraged from following through with your idea is because others have done this sort of thing over the past 15 years and it always ended badly for those involved.

These stories don't necessarily reflect the bad endings, just that it has been done before.

2005: https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2005/03/watching_the_de.html

2009: http://alphavilleherald.com/2009/02/private-eyes-for-hire-in-sl.html

2010: http://forums-archive.secondlife.com/327/2c/360752/1.html

2015: 

 

One group that popped up on google search: https://my.secondlife.com/groups/ad67bc43-48ba-6b90-0a30-a72e5ce5b314?id=ad67bc43-48ba-6b90-0a30-a72e5ce5b314

Perhaps the best thing for you to do is draw up a "business plan" and present it to a Linden for ToS violations review. Ask one of the forum mods for help. You can PM them just like everyone else.

 

 

LL will not do something like clear your business plan for possible TOS violations. They do not get involved in player-to-player conflicts -- but they also don't get involved in issuing seals of approval. You have to study the TOS yourself and SL history and launch your business and await the first AR and its response.

The idea that any of us should be encouraged to send business plans to mods -- I don't know where to start. But some people enjoyed being hall monitors in school.

[Victorian Magic]

18 hours ago, Resi Pfeffer said:

Someone told me, there is a very popular adult addon for females, what literally sticks in a sticky way to your skin. And if you open the menu of that addon, it will give you a list of all the guys using a scripted dick you have been "connected" with.

Is this the infamous "Sticky Wicket"?

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

On 1/23/2019 at 7:19 AM, carolinestravels said:

Which is my core business!
It even does make me real money, every month!

/me points to signature...

Your plan is exploitative. Will you be telling your marks you'll be using their upset to bring traffic to your monetised blog?

Why not go into crime fiction instead?

[Caroline Takeda]

7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

That was a great idea to advertise your new PI firm by posing as a thinky thread on the forums. BTW rent my land -- but not for this.

 

I own land already 

 

[Caroline Takeda]

19 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

undercover or investigative journalist who moonlights as an escort and picks up stories from the johns. You'd get to combine your fantasies and you wouldn't have to rely on other people to bring activity to you; you could generate it yourself.

Amina

Thats excatly how and why I became an escort girl. It started here: Going under cover as an escort girl.

Then I liked it and gost kinda stuck in the story :-)

[Selene Gregoire]

11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

LL will not do something like clear your business plan for possible TOS violations. They do not get involved in player-to-player conflicts -- but they also don't get involved in issuing seals of approval. You have to study the TOS yourself and SL history and launch your business and await the first AR and its response.

The idea that any of us should be encouraged to send business plans to mods -- I don't know where to start. But some people enjoyed being hall monitors in school.

I never said to send the plan to the mod. I said to ask for help. 

You might get off on being a hall monitor but I never was one. It would have been impossible since they didn't exist in the schools I attended.