Drake1 Nightfire Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Roxy Couturier said: Well, the majority of my post count was from the prior iteration. I made a few posts on this iteration (hence only what? 10 reactions?) but the toxicity carried over at the beginning. I didn't find it so much fun, but to each their own. So are we good? My numbers didnt carry over sadly.. Were we not good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Good is relative.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Couturier Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said: My numbers didnt carry over sadly.. Were we not good? We are, I was just making sure, because the medium of posts doesn't always convey vexation and while I am many things, psychic ain't one of them. (And making a teaching moment on how communication resolves ambiguities that might otherwise cause conflict). Edited September 28, 2018 by Roxy Couturier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) Drake,I will make an effort to debate with you, but I can't promise I won't get out my spray bottle again..lol. I had just finished watching the entire 'last stand of the patriarchy' Kavanaugh and Ford hearings, and subsequent commentary on them. And to see the macho-ness attitude you exhibited, well it was just too much. First let me clarify regarding using the words 'patriarchy' and 'macho behavior' -- the patrarchy is a stratified society where some have power over others, and 'macho behavior' is not exclusive to men by any means. I have brothers and a little grandson I love dearly, and bear no ill-will to men, nor do I think they are soley to blame for our sick society. The blame for all our woes is this 'conquering mentality' which forms the basis of the patriarchy where some have abusive power over others. It's the basis of war and all the suffering that results from it. It will be very hard for the world to move toward valuing an egalitarian society, but the future of the world depends on it! Winning over others seen as victory, conquering other people and the nature that surrounds us -- it has to go! We're just a little blue dot in the Universe and will never conquer that which we desire to conquer. Death is a hard limit. I see strength in vulnerability, whereas you see strength like this, your words from above: "The old forums were harsh, gritty and would have stripped most of the new posters here to the bone in 8 posts. If your skin wasn't steel, you didn't post more than once. and yes, LL employees were there a lot. Posts got flagged faster then the time it took to open the notification. This forum is NOTHING compared to it. This is puppies, kittens and rainbows. The old one was Pinheads playground." Vulnerability is real, and is true strength. Being macho is not strength at all -- it's a pretend strength. Edited September 28, 2018 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rya Nitely Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said: Gods it was fun... Luna forgot that bit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 I see Rya's ability to ask for what he needed at work as a real strength. It takes great self-awareness to know your limits, and to respectfully ask for help when you need it. It takes courage, because you're often turned down and labeled as 'weak' -- just as so many posters in this thread tried to label Rya as weak. I see all the varied groups asking for their rights now as a very positive change in society. Women asking to have equal pay, authority, and respect in society. Men wanting to be able to express their tender side without being labeled as 'weak'. People of color asking for equal rights and respect. Gays wanting to be seen positively and deserving of the rights we give straight people. Mentally and physically challenged people getting the respect they deserve. The poor being lifted up. Really, the list goes on and on. The solution is not for these people to toughen up, but rather to change the nature of society. Those who want to keep society as it was (especially in the USA), where the straight, white, male is seen as the 'default', as the King....they place labels on all these groups to keep them down and maintain, control, and run off with most of the money. So I really react when a Mr. Cowboy comes onto the forum, using the language of the alt-right. Language designed to keep disadvantaged groups in their place, and devalue those who fight for these disadvantaged groups (terms such as 'social justice warrior' or the new iteration 'virtue-signaling'). So Rya is the strong one, handing out warm blankets to everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Cindy Evanier said: Never watched it Seinfeld could be hilarious or silly, but the Soup Nazi episode was one of the most hilarious and memorable of all the Seinfelds IMO. It's well worth finding it and watching it. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) I rarely posted on the old forums. I only went there searching for answers to problems I encountered while building in SL. I pretty much stayed away from the reincarnation of the forums as well until very recently. Again, I came searching for information and found a wealth of it. Unfortunately, I have also encountered a lot of drama here as well, and I'll admit that I have added to the drama. I am easily bated when someone misrepresents my position in a response to one of my posts, but I'm doing my best to stop that behavior. I'm not always successful though. That said, there is enough blame in the world and these forums to go around. We didn't get to this place on our own or because of one side. As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango. If people would stop blaming and name calling and stand up and be the example of the behavior they wish to see, then perhaps things would change. Edited September 28, 2018 by Blush Bravin 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: Drake,I will make an effort to debate with you, but I can't promise I won't get out my spray bottle again..lol. I had just finished watching the entire 'last stand of the patriarchy' Kavanaugh and Ford hearings, and subsequent commentary on them. And to see the macho-ness attitude you exhibited, well it was just too much. First let me clarify regarding using the words 'patriarchy' and 'macho behavior' -- the patrarchy is a stratified society where some have power over others, and 'macho behavior' is not exclusive to men by any means. I have brothers and a little grandson I love dearly, and bear no ill-will to men, nor do I think they are soley to blame for our sick society. The blame for all our woes is this 'conquering mentality' which forms the basis of the patriarchy where some have abusive power over others. It's the basis of war and all the suffering that results from it. It will be very hard for the world to move toward valuing an egalitarian society, but the future of the world depends on it! Winning over others seen as victory, conquering other people and the nature that surrounds us -- it has to go! We're just a little blue dot in the Universe and will never conquer that which we desire to conquer. Death is a hard limit. I see strength in vulnerability, whereas you see strength like this, your words from above: "The old forums were harsh, gritty and would have stripped most of the new posters here to the bone in 8 posts. If your skin wasn't steel, you didn't post more than once. and yes, LL employees were there a lot. Posts got flagged faster then the time it took to open the notification. This forum is NOTHING compared to it. This is puppies, kittens and rainbows. The old one was Pinheads playground." Vulnerability is real, and is true strength. Being macho is not strength at all -- it's a pretend strength. Perhaps you don't know this, but there were just as many women posting back then as men. Most of who dished it out as fast if not faster. I'm really not sure why you would call that macho behavior. When people post threads about "losing the love of their life" when they have NEVER met face to face and they cheated on them, should they be coddled and given warm platitudes or given the cold truth? Should everyone be snuggled tight in a warm blanket simply so their feelings never get hurt? Some people make threads just to complain about things that no one can do anything about. Some of them are just trolls. Should they get a warm blankie as well? You know nothing about me, nothing about my personal life. You have no idea what my skin color is, my marital status, gender or even sexual orientation. Personally i think Kavenaugh did it as did Cosby and i am ashamed that he got so light a sentence. There is no patriarchy here, no power struggle. Here, everyone is equal. Until they prove otherwise by their posts. Vulnerability isn't strength, working through it is. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: The blame for all our woes is this 'conquering mentality' which forms the basis of the patriarchy where some have abusive power over others. It's the basis of war and all the suffering that results from it. Money (or its equivalent in resources) is the general basis for war. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: Those who want to keep society as it was (especially in the USA), where the straight, white, male is seen as the 'default', as the King That will be because straight white males generally built your civilisation. (I have no numbers to demonstrate the ratio of straight to otherwise among them but by the statistics we have the straight would be in the majority). By all means do without the advantages that civilisation brought you (even granted its faults). If the balance of invention, creation, and foresight shifts then the default could change, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Ye Gods, I don't want to get into politics here, so .. back to topic ... it's about time I revisited the new SLU. I went once or twice, got overwhelmed at the flurry of activity and ran off I hope it's a bit quieter now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Meriman Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said: There is no patriarchy here There isn't. SL, and the forums, are very much female dominated. It's quite a polar opposite to the real world. 4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: Good is relative.. Some relatives are good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Couturier Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: Ye Gods, I don't want to get into politics here, so .. back to topic ... it's about time I revisited the new SLU. I went once or twice, got overwhelmed at the flurry of activity and ran off I hope it's a bit quieter now. Visit the gif dance party, it rocks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 36 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said: Perhaps you don't know this, but there were just as many women posting back then as men. Most of who dished it out as fast if not faster. I'm really not sure why you would call that macho behavior. ** Perhaps you did not read my words, but in no way have I made this into a male vs female issue. Woman can be just as macho as men. When people post threads about "losing the love of their life" when they have NEVER met face to face and they cheated on them, should they be coddled and given warm platitudes or given the cold truth? ** I would validate their feelings, yet guide them into something that might work better for them. When someone hurts, they hurt -- there's no need to place a value judgement on it -- validate their feelings first, then guide or suggest other venues that could enhance their life more. Should everyone be snuggled tight in a warm blanket simply so their feelings never get hurt? ** No, I believe in tough love too, I believe in confrontation even though someone might feel hurt. But this needs to be done carefully, as quite often we don't really know the entire situation and empathy is not a skill easily developed. Some people make threads just to complain about things that no one can do anything about. Some of them are just trolls. Should they get a warm blankie as well? ** Not at all, no warm blankets for them. Tough love is in order. You know nothing about me, nothing about my personal life. You have no idea what my skin color is, my marital status, gender or even sexual orientation. Personally i think Kavenaugh did it as did Cosby and i am ashamed that he got so light a sentence. There is no patriarchy here, no power struggle. Here, everyone is equal. Until they prove otherwise by their posts. ** I would agree the forum is different from RL in some ways, but it is also a microcosm of real life in some ways. The patriarchy is alive and well on this forum, evidenced by your inability (and a few others) to comprehend that there is also value in vulnerability, and also in your championing of the delight in bludgeoning others in the old iteration of the forum. Vulnerability isn't strength, working through it is. ** When we deny our vulnerability or pretend we have no vulnerabilites in life (the definition of macho) then it takes great strength and courage to display it -- hence it is a strength. It's an admirable quality to work through the vulnerabilities one is able to, but one needs to accept there are some things they can't work through (for example, some depression is biochemical and no amount of 'pulling oneself up by the bootstraps' is going to fix it). However, it can be dealt with as gracefully as possible, and in this sense there is a 'working through'. Really, I'd say the ability to know what you can change and what you can't is what makes one the wisest. The idea that we can change everything given enough force is, well, macho. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyelaNewLife Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: I see all the varied groups asking for their rights now as a very positive change in society. Women asking to have equal pay, authority, and respect in society. [...] So I really react when a Mr. Cowboy comes onto the forum, using the language of the alt-right. Language designed to keep disadvantaged groups in their place, and devalue those who fight for these disadvantaged groups (terms such as 'social justice warrior' or the new iteration 'virtue-signaling'). Are you really using tone-policing to try and combat toxic masculinity? My irony-meter is off the charts 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 33 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: 2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: Those who want to keep society as it was (especially in the USA), where the straight, white, male is seen as the 'default', as the King That will be because straight white males generally built your civilisation. (I have no numbers to demonstrate the ratio of straight to otherwise among them but by the statistics we have the straight would be in the majority). By all means do without the advantages that civilisation brought you (even granted its faults). If the balance of invention, creation, and foresight shifts then the default could change, of course. That civilization was also built by women. There's a vast Herstory out there, but it is often unsung, although more is being known. History as it is now is so much about war, who conquered who, who came out on top. But the deeper story is underneath. There's no need to make it an either/or debate.....one can have many advantages of a civilization without the war. btw...did you see the movie 'Hidden Figures', about three black women who excelled in technology? Just another example of women who were not known or praised in society until recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 minute ago, AyelaNewLife said: 2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: I see all the varied groups asking for their rights now as a very positive change in society. Women asking to have equal pay, authority, and respect in society. [...] So I really react when a Mr. Cowboy comes onto the forum, using the language of the alt-right. Language designed to keep disadvantaged groups in their place, and devalue those who fight for these disadvantaged groups (terms such as 'social justice warrior' or the new iteration 'virtue-signaling'). Are you really using tone-policing to try and combat toxic masculinity? My irony-meter is off the charts No, I am using tough love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyelaNewLife Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Just now, Luna Bliss said: No, I am using tough love It honestly comes across as tone policing. You know, the way you ignored everything that was said (previously, some post lag on my part) and focused on their delivery as a way of silencing what they had to say. Your "macho spray" memes are on the same level as "calm down dear" or "must be that time of the month" - an exceptionally toxic approach designed, in your own words, "to keep disadvantaged groups in their place". And it's counter-productive. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: ** Perhaps you did not read my words, but in no way have I made this into a male vs female issue. Woman can be just as macho as men. Reading this definition, perhaps you need a better word to convey your message than macho. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 49 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: 2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: The blame for all our woes is this 'conquering mentality' which forms the basis of the patriarchy where some have abusive power over others. It's the basis of war and all the suffering that results from it. Money (or its equivalent in resources) is the general basis for war. Conquering to get the most goodies, yes I can't disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said: 8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: No, I am using tough love It honestly comes across as tone policing. You know, the way you ignored everything that was said (previously, some post lag on my part) and focused on their delivery as a way of silencing what they had to say. Your "macho spray" memes are on the same level as "calm down dear" or "must be that time of the month" - an exceptionally toxic approach designed, in your own words, "to keep disadvantaged groups in their place". And it's counter-productive. If you read this thread carefully, you will see that Rya's solution to his difficulties at work were shot down hard, more so at first. This is because many did not accept that it's okay to be vulnerable and claimed he was being weak if he could not fix it. I believe we have a lot of societal pressure to 'pull oneself up by the bootstraps'....especially in the USA...and especially as it has grown more neoliberal with each passing year. It's not 'tone policing'.....macho behavior is destructive in society, and if so inclined I will always call it out when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: That civilization was also built by women. There's a vast Herstory out there, but it is often unsung, although more is being known. History as it is now is so much about war, who conquered who, who came out on top. But the deeper story is underneath. There's no need to make it an either/or debate.....one can have many advantages of a civilization without the war. btw...did you see the movie 'Hidden Figures', about three black women who excelled in technology? Just another example of women who were not known or praised in society until recently. There has been evidence found of some women who were not appreciated in their time for their contribution to science and the arts, but you cannot extrapolate from that to a vast number. I didn't see the film you mention, as I can't get out, and if I were spending money in the cinema I'd rather it were on something I'd enjoy, such as sci-fi. I don't want to sit for hours being given a lecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 19 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: Reading this definition, perhaps you need a better word to convey your message than macho. Perhaps a better word needs to be developed if there isn't one already. It's the word that was used in my Women's Studies classes to denote: "an exaggerated or exhilarating sense of power or strength" And that is the definition of 'macho' in one online dictionary, albiet not the first one. I do specify when I use it that I am referring to men and women equally. Should I go all psycho-babbly and describe what 'defenses' in Psychology are each time I use the word? It is a defense, after all, this tendency to display toughness in order to hide weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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