Forum becoming more negative?

[Phil Deakins]

32 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

Phil, I accept that I misunderstood you, but please allow me to say this without offending you again.

“pretty regular mix of humanity” and

“As a community, we are what we are. If a community of people is unappealing, then the best thing to do is opt out of it”

A ‘pretty regular mix of humanity’ would be found everywhere, creating ‘Little Fires Everywhere’ (a good book that has a very good example of bullying, and how one little girl tries to defend the victim, when nobody else does, and she gets blamed - typical).

Anyone who opts out of a forum of a pretty regular mix of humanity, because they can’t take the heat, would most likely be opting out of other social groups and communities.

I isolated myself to the point where I couldn't go to work. There are many people who do, because these fires are everywhere. These loners will often be sitting in front of their computers, and they will look for company there...and get burnt.

People who just don't see and understand it, it's simply because you don't experience it yourself. And that is why mental health awareness is so important.

People can change, we've seen it happen in our society over and over again - through education and awareness. It has happened at my work. The bullies don't get support anymore, and so they stop.

Stop supporting bullies, call them out on it, don't ignore it, don't defend it - make the world a better place.

But you used the word "isolation", Rya. 'Isolation' means alone. Nothing of what I said could possibily be rightly construed to mean that over-sensitive people should choose to be alone. You made a wrong conclusion about something I didn't say.

If regular groups of people are hard for someone, then they have the choice of either being alone, which I would not suggest at all, or dipping into the groups from time to time, building up the length of time in them, and the frequency of dipping in, in order to build up the mental fortitude that they need to be able to cope in groups. Like exercising to build up physical strength and/or abilities.

What I've said is that there is a major difference between people in a forum, who only have black on white words to go by, and the real world where people can see people, and know if a response is beyond what would be expected. In a forum, it can't be expected that other people in the forum will recognise that someone is hurting, or could be hurt, when there is no indication of it. Being generally kind to others is great. I support that wholeheartedly. What I don't support is the idea that forum users should know who is over-sensitive, when there is no way of knowing. The very sensitive ones do know that they are very sensitive, and it is they who need to take the steps to deal with forums - such as the exercising I mentioned. It is not the forum users who are responsible for knowing. We, the forum users, are responsible for ourselves. I'll bring a well-known saying in. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. Kindness generally covers that.

I don't support bullies. Not many people do. There is a regular thing that happens here, where people are treated very unkindly. It's when students comes to ask us to do a survey. The students don't know that it's disliked by some people here, and they often get jumped on, as though they should have known. That always annoys me. At their ages (the forum regulars), they should know better, and I sometimes criticise it.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Rya Nitely]

I acknowledged that I misunderstood your post.

People in the forums are very much the same as anywhere else though. I agree with you there - it is a pretty regular mix of humanity. 

And although you didn't say it, I wanted to add it - this mix of humanity is everywhere. And people with social anxiety isolate themselves because they can't cope.

People with social anxiety do have to help themselves, but there are so many people who suffer from it that society needs to be aware of it, because that helps.

That's all ?

[Phil Deakins]

22 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

I acknowledged that I misunderstood your post.

People in the forums are very much the same as anywhere else though. I agree with you there - it is a pretty regular mix of humanity. 

And although you didn't say it, I wanted to add it - this mix of humanity is everywhere. And people with social anxiety isolate themselves because they can't cope.

People with social anxiety do have to help themselves, but there are so many people who suffer from it that society needs to be aware of it, because that helps.

That's all ?

I don't disagree with that. All I wanted to say was that we in forums have no way of knowing about people's states, and that's it's up to those with difficulties to help themselves as far as forums are concerned.

[Akasha Sternberg]

41 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

I acknowledged that I misunderstood your post.

People in the forums are very much the same as anywhere else though. I agree with you there - it is a pretty regular mix of humanity. 

And although you didn't say it, I wanted to add it - this mix of humanity is everywhere. And people with social anxiety isolate themselves because they can't cope.

People with social anxiety do have to help themselves, but there are so many people who suffer from it that society needs to be aware of it, because that helps.

That's all ?

that!

And just like everywhere else  the focus seems to be shifting to shallow and very individual "problems" and problems... People seem to tolerate ...even... accept drama much more. I ignored quite a bunch of people on here recently...5-10 in fact ... because when in RL I´d walk away and if needed tell them I´d rather prefer not being around them or communicating with them because of their behaviour online I block the hell out of people, there´s too much negativity around to deal with every piece of bs...
Of course, yes, some conversations don´t make sense to me anymore and because of them being quoted I still see waaaaay too much of the stuff they pour out of their fingertips, but it´s still better than have this stuff in front of my eyes ever so often.
My online times vary massively due to busy perks in RL but I´ve noticed myself tending towards few selected posts and the inworld groups. For social anxiety - it´s not much of a secret that I am one of those, too and I´ve found myself disappointed ever so often when I dared to reach out. Wanting friends is not playing Pokemon Go for me. I do that on my phone if I´m outside and remember to, but with acquaintances and friends I´m way more picky... I have to as I´m weirded out by people ever so often which increases my anxiety. Plus I bet people are weirded out by me, too, and that leads to more disappointments no one really needs.

So yes, the forum has become more negative, just like pretty much every place in every world and life

[Luna Bliss]

6 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

6 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

^ this

and the most disappointing part of it, is that the power comes from having like minded people backing you up, and that's when you get a gang up.

and you expect everybody who doesn't agree with you to convert to your opinion, and everything else is bad, gang and abusers?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke (in a letter addressed to Thomas Mercer).

[Luna Bliss]

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 4:53 AM, Rya Nitely said:

People can change through awareness. I don't know what the situation is in America or other places but I would say it's pretty much like in Australia.

I think the problems you reference are getting better in America too. In more recent times online & school bullying are more often given the seriousness they deserve, unfortunately only after children died because of bullying. Overall there is more education designed to develop awareness now, and it's less tolerated, less prone to being dismissed by the "children will be children" attitudes of days gone by.

Likewise, more effective policies that discourage victimization, discrimination, harassment and bullying in every form at the workplace are increasingly being enforced. Many workplaces have classes that educate their employees to encourage behaving more civily.
The encouragement of a respectful attitude toward all people, along with enhanced education regarding specific issues that need to be addressed (mental illness, sexism, bullying, and more) create a more favorable working environment and is having a good effect on society overall.

For some, the rules are an imposition and they never really change internally, while for others just a little push in the direction of 'respect for others' causes them to evaluate their ethics and change behavior in all aspects of life.
You can't force respect, as some have said, but you can model it -- and as you've found at your workplace it is effective!

Regarding the forum, we have policies in place that disallow profanities, flaming, & name-calling...I'm glad to see it.
I don't see you at all as advocating for "hey, I've got mental health issuse so treat me delicately and like I'm special, with kid gloves and oooey-gooey sweetness". Rather, you seem to be saying "let's treat everyone with as much kindness as we can because we never know the difficulties another might be experiencing, and bullying against anyone is not acceptable".

Edited September 19, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Regarding the forum, we have policies in place that disallow profanities, flaming, & name-calling...I'm glad to see it.
I don't see you at all as advocating for "hey, I've got mental health issuse so treat me delicately and like I'm special, with kid gloves and oooey-gooey sweetness". Rather, you seem to be saying "let's treat everyone with as much kindness as we can because we never know the difficulties another might be experiencing, and bullying against anyone is not acceptable".

Kindness and respect are subjective things.  We truly get people coming to the forums with questions and/or opinions and then insisting that they are being abused/bullied simply because they did not get the answer or mass agreement from everyone that they expected/wanted.

[Luna Bliss]

5 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I don't support bullies. Not many people do. There is a regular thing that happens here, where people are treated very unkindly. It's when students comes to ask us to do a survey. The students don't know that it's disliked by some people here, and they often get jumped on, as though they should have known. That always annoys me. At their ages (the forum regulars), they should know better, and I sometimes criticise it.

I very much agree here...sometimes we expect too much of new forum posters. I'd like to see us treat new posters or those who infrequently post with more kindness, as we have more power than they do (because we're familiar with our surroundings, we know the ropes better, we tend to give those we know better the benefit of the doubt when conflicts arise and tend to be less trusting of strangers).

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Kindness and respect are subjective things.  We truly get people coming to the forums with questions and/or opinions and then insisting that they are being abused/bullied simply because they did not get the answer or mass agreement from everyone that they expected/wanted.

Yes, people exist like this.

But, we need to take responsibility too...often how we respond to them sets the tone...and when given kindness they more easily see the error of their ways.

[Ethan Paslong]

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke (in a letter addressed to Thomas Mercer).

one thing you and your gang forget, there are many people who experience the opposite, while having the same mental issues, but most likely that's not very relevant when i read you and that other poster's posts.

And not even that long ago you and the other one flamed another user down because he didn't agree to your business views... was that a warm blanket from your side?

We only need warm blankets and awarenes... but what if those warm blankets trigger the bad behavior?
I'd like to see some compassion and awareness about that at your side.

 

You'r in nothing different than the ones you blame to be rude and blunt.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Ethan Paslong

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Ethan Paslong said:

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke (in a letter addressed to Thomas Mercer).

one thing you and your gang forget, there are many people who experience the opposite, while having the same mental issues, but most likely that's not very relevant when i read you and that other poster's posts.

And not even that long ago you and the other one flamed another user down because he didn't agree to your business views... was that a warm blanket from your side?

We only need warm blankets and awarenes... but what if those warm blankets trigger the bad behavior?
I'd like to see some compassion and awareness about that at your side.

Can you go into specifics a bit more, because I don't quite understand what you're saying, and so find it difficult to respond.

[Blush Bravin]

6 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

Stop supporting bullies, call them out on it, don't ignore it, don't defend it - make the world a better place.

The problem is not everyone agrees on what constitutes bullying. What I consider bullying for someone else might be a totally different thing. I know the word has come to encompass far more today than it did a couple of decades ago.

[Luna Bliss]

13 hours ago, Phorumities said:

It's the fact that a conservative supreme court will make decisions based on LAW, and not legislate from the bench,  that has "progressives" so upset

One thing I've noticed, is that when a court decision is made that favors the other side then the side that lost frequently cries "legislation from the bench"!    In other words, both sides often decry "legislation from the bench"  when they lose.

Judges these days tend to legislate along progressive/conservative lines because politics is so polarized now.

The 'law' is not 'set in stone'......judges have some leeway in how they interpret the law.

 

[Luna Bliss]

21 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I know the word has come to encompass far more today than it did a couple of decades ago.

Can you give specifics?

** I tend to believe that 'bullying' is more visible now, more recognized for what it actually is, and not as acceptable.... not that it necessarily encompasses more.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

35 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

one thing you and your gang forget, there are many people who experience the opposite, while having the same mental issues, but most likely that's not very relevant when i read you and that other poster's posts.

What is the opposite you experience?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And not even that long ago you and the other one flamed another user down because he didn't agree to your business views... was that a warm blanket from your side?

What incident are you referring to?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

We only need warm blankets and awarenes... but what if those warm blankets trigger the bad behavior?
I'd like to see some compassion and awareness about that at your side.

What bad behavior do you mean here, and how do "warm blankets" trigger it?
 

You'r in nothing different than the ones you blame to be rude and blunt.

I've only said that we need to consider BOTH sides...those who are blunt and those who are offended or hurting. I tend to give more consideration to those who are hurting, yes, because when someone else is in pain we have more power at the particular time we're having a conflict with them -- they are more vulnerable when in pain.  But BOTH sides need to get along & compromise....one side never totally trumps another side.

I'm not perfect, and I'm sure I have been/will be insensitive to the other side. But I do try to learn.

 

[Phil Deakins]

51 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What incident are you referring to?

I suspect he is referring to a thread which you entered to say that the OP came for sympathy, rather than straight answers, when there was nothing in the op that suggested it. I was one of those who you came down on. And it surprised me because I hadn't seen you as a person who does that.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Blush Bravin]

36 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Can you give specifics?

** I tend to believe that 'bullying' is more visible now, more recognized for what it actually is, and not as acceptable.... not that it necessarily encompasses more.

I only retired from teaching a couple of years ago. I was constantly having to deal with students and parents alike reporting students as being bullies. In very few instances was it really a case of bullying. In order to be considered bullying, the behavior must be aggressive and include an imbalance of power and repetition. Many of the behaviors people label as bullying these days doesn't meet that criteria. I'm not saying bullying doesn't occur, quite the contrary. But we also should be very careful to not use the word indiscriminately or we lessen the impact when the term should actually be used.

So perhaps my saying encompass was not the right way to say it. Perhaps I should have said people use it to encompass behaviors that are not truly bullying.

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I suspect he is referring to a thread which you entered to say that the OP came for sympathy, rather than straight answers, when there was nothing in the op that suggested it. I was one of those who you came down on. And it surprised me because I hadn't seen you as a person who would do that.

I don't remember the incident, so I guess you'll have to link to it. Ethan said it related to a disagreement between business views.

If the incident happened as you say, and I believed the OP was only wanting sympathy instead of an answer, how do you know for sure there was nothing in the OP's statement (or previous ones) that suggested that interpretation? We can only know that (if the incident did exist) we determined the OP's purpose/motive for posting differently.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

12 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

But we also should be very careful to not use the word indiscriminately or we lessen the impact when the term should actually be used.

Totally agree.

In a similar vein, social justice warriors who don't even care about the issues they're supposedly defending, are not doing us any favors either....the 'us' being those who care about the disenfranchised in society.

[Phil Deakins]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't remember the incident, so I guess you'll have to link to it. Ethan said it related to a disagreement between business views.

If the incident happened as you say, and I believed the OP was only wanting sympathy instead of an answer, how do you know for sure there was nothing in the OP's statement (or previous ones) that suggested that interpretation? We can only know that (if the incident did exist) we determined the OP's purpose/motive for posting differently.

It wasn't many days ago. The thread was eventually locked, but I can't find it now, so it may have been removed. I don't even remember what the topic was, but it wasn't a disagreement between business views, so - my mistake.

 

[Luna Bliss]

21 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

In order to be considered bullying, the behavior must be aggressive and include an imbalance of power and repetition.

It doesn't have to be repeated to be considered bullying though, according to dictionary definitions of the word.

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

The thread was eventually locked, but I can't find it now, so it may have been removed.

I remember a thread poofing a couple weeks ago, but can't remember what it was about...

[Blush Bravin]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

It doesn't have to be repeated to be considered bullying though, according to dictionary definitions of the word.

In order to be considered bullying, the behavior must be aggressive and include:

• An Imbalance of Power: Kids who bully use their power—such as physical strength, access to embarrassing information, or popularity—to control or harm others. Power imbalances can change over time and in different situations, even if they involve the same people.
• Repetition: Bullying behaviors happen more than once or have the potential to happen more than once.
  Bullying includes actions such as making threats, spreading rumors, attacking someone physically or verbally, and excluding someone from a group on purpose. source here

In our extensive staff trainings on dealing with bullying in the school setting.. repetition was always a key factor in determining if a case was actually bullying or not.

[Luna Bliss]

The behavior is repeated, or has the potential to be repeated, over time. Both kids who are bullied and who bully others may have  serious, lasting problems . In order to be considered bullying, the behavior must be aggressive and include: An Imbalance of Power: Kids who bully use their power—such as physical strength, access to embarrassing information, or popularity—to control or harm ohers. Power imbalances can change over time and in different situations, even if they involve the same people.

What Is Bullying | StopBullying.gov

www.stopbullying.gov/what-is-bullying/index.html.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual.

Source:Wikipedia

 

[Luna Bliss]

Well, say you were at the grocery store and a guy twice your size deliberately knocked you to the ground to get the last head of lettuce. That wouldn't be repeated, but I'd call it bullying.