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Alexa Linden

Bakes on Mesh Feedback Thread

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16 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Speaking as the SL- Cromagnon who pointed out A YEAR AGO, when this was announced as the latest "kewl" idea from the Secret "middle of the night on the beta grid" meetings of some snobby little clique, that as suggested... with it's lack of materials support, etc., that this should be called "Bake-Fail on Mesh" I remember...
 

The Content Creators Meetings are open to anyone who wants to attend it is no secret and the meetings are not held in the middle of the night unless you live Far East.  Normal maps and specular maps work on mesh using Bakes On Mesh to apply the diffuse texture you have have to apply them exactly as they do now.  I say so far your criticism and critical thinking skills are the only thing that is failing.

 

17 hours ago, Klytyna said:

I find it amusing that ALL the problems I predicted with Bake-Fail on Mesh, A YEAR AGO, after considering it for less than 60 seconds, are either now revealed as indeed coming true, or even more amusingly, are now being raised by the people who disagreed with me last year.

 

So far pretty much all your predictions from a year ago have not come true. 

 

17 hours ago, Klytyna said:

I'm also amused that one of the early replies to this announcement was "Oh this will make mesh avis obsolete and bring back system avis again hooray", a CLASSIC SL-Neanderthal reaction.

You really have no idea about how to disagree with someone in a civil manor do you?  While the person you are referring to was wrong in the believe that Bakes On Mesh would make custom mesh avatars obsolete and bring back the classic SL system avatar as the most popular I find your choice to call them a Neanderthal repugnant.

17 hours ago, Klytyna said:

We're told by the koolaid guzzlers that lack of materials isn't a handicap, as we will be able to apply the normals and speculars with appliers, despite the repeated claims that this is supposed to eliminate the need for appliers.

Black cherry koolaid is my favorite though I haven't dunk any koolaid in about 20 years.  While yes the initial release isn't going to eliminate the need for all appliers it will greatly reduce the need of much of them and the lag they cause even it is just a small of lag.  Nothing is ever a perfect solution.  If you want perfection why are you in SL at all.  SL is full of imperfection.  If it was perfect from the get go appliers would never have been needed to be invented. 

17 hours ago, Klytyna said:

We have a LINDEN claiming that Bake-Fail on mesh will eliminate the need for full perm template mesh, because... We can just bake our 2006 system clothing onto it, no need to be able to modify it with custom made textures, strongly suggesting that at least one of the two Lindens posting so far in this thread isn't aware than most mesh clothing doesn't use SL System avatar uv layouts.

I haven't read this claim by the Linen in question so I don't know if you are reporting what they said accurately.  If what you said is true then they are wrong.  Bakes On Mesh will not eliminate the need for full perm template mesh.  It will however give the opportunity to new ways of doing business in SL.  For example a mesh clothing designer can make mesh and if they wish release the UV pattern and or a decimated version of the mesh for others to texture and then sell those textures using system clothing files.  Then anyone who buys the mesh clothes using Bakes On Mesh and wears it can buy the texture artists system clothing and wear it and mesh clothes will have the texture of the system clothes applied to it automatically.  This would mean an increase in sales of the mesh clothing so the original mesh designer is happy because now more people are buying their mesh clothes and the texture artist is happy because they can make great textures and sell them without having to make mesh themselves or buy full perm mesh to texture and do all the extra work of dealing with mesh.

Will this mean a possible drop in full perm mesh sales to texture artists?  Perhaps.  Only time will tell.  Markets change all the time in real life and SL.  You can either take advantage of these changes and or adapt or you don't.  If you don't it could mean you lose sales or you may not lose any sale.  In business as in life there are no guarantees.

17 hours ago, Klytyna said:

This whole project is the blind leading the blind. About the only thing this will achieve as announced, is people wearing old old system layers on mesh bodies.

Better blind than brain dead.  Yes people will be able to wear old system clothes.  This does not mean new system clothes with new beautiful textures what will be able to be up to 1024 by 1024 will not be made because they will be.

17 hours ago, Klytyna said:

The only onion skin layers it will possibly eliminate are, tattoo layers, and makeup layers, so a 25% saving in poly count on most brands, assuming that Bake-Fail editions of mesh bodies don't claw that poly saving back to improve weightmapping and rigging at critical areas.
 

I am only familiar with the SLink avatars.  I know the female SLink avatar is made of 4 layers.  With Bakes On Mesh custom mesh bodies will only need 1 layer.  That is a saves of 75%.  Actually it will be a bit more than that because custom mesh avatars won't need to be cut up into pieces.  SLinks avatars are cut up into over 100 pieces.  When you cut a mesh you crease the number of edges and vertices.  So the hundreds if not thousands of edges and vertices created by cutting up an mesh avatar will be eliminated along with all those layers.

A custom mesh body using Bakes On Mesh potentially has the equivalent of 60 layers of textures all baked down into between 1 and 6 textures.  Most custom mesh avatars will probably just use 3.  Head, Upper Body and Lower Body.  All current mesh bodies are now made up of textures for Head,  Head, Upper Body and Lower Body plus 3 or 4 extra layers all with Head,  Head, Upper Body and Lower Body.  That is a total of 12 1024 by 1024 texture. 

17 hours ago, Klytyna said:

We're told we won't need alpha cuts, but... most of the clothing that uses alphaq cuts doesn't come with alphas, so... we will still need alpha cuts, and bake-fail will only be for new bodies that wear completely different clothing...

I have already addressed this.  Making alphas for clothes is easy for the clothing designer.  It just takes a few minutes.  Clothing designers who want their existing clothes to work with new avatars that use the Bakes On Mesh if they want to continue selling clothes for those avatars.  If they don't want to take the time they don't have too but they are going to miss out on the opportunity of selling their clothes for those avatars. 

It also gives clothing designers the freedom to design clothes anyway they want without having to worry if a particular mesh is cut up in a way what will be able to be hidden.  The designer just makes the clothes and one alpha and it will work on all the custom mesh avatars that use LL default UV layout which all the current mesh avatars do.

I am sure all the currently uploaded mesh avatars will be converted to use Baked On Mesh since it only takes a minute to setup each mesh.  Then any mesh clothing that didn't work by hiding the avatar body parts using the HUD can just wear an alpha made for that piece of clothing.  So if a particular piece of mesh clothing didn't work with a particular mesh avatar because that avatar wasn't cut up  in such a way that the right parts could be hidden wearing the alpha would solve that problem if the mesh avatar was set to use Bakes On Mesh.

18 hours ago, Klytyna said:

How many people will WANT to upgrade to a Bake-Fail body 2019 edition at a cost of 3-10k L$ if it means throwing away most of their mesh clothes, and returning to World-O-Crap Discount Freebie Warehouse to stock up on 2006 system rags.
 

You do realize all the mesh clothing you bought for your custom mesh current avatar will still work with at avatar right?  You do know that whenever a new body comes out there is no quarantine your old clothes will fit or work with any new body?  You do know you have an unhealthy fixation with 2006 system clothing and that new textures will be made and will just be using system clothes files as a way to apply those textures to custom avatars and custom mesh clothes and shoes and a whole bunch of there things I can't even imagine?

18 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Remember... *I* listed most of the obvious failings of bake fail, and several different approaches to implementing it BEFORE you even realised your "kewl" idea might HAVE any problems or that anyone might not think the sun shone out of your backside for suggesting it. Technically, that put's me ahead of this...

A YEAR ahead, as I did that A YEAR AGO.
 

Remember just about everything you have said has been wrong whether it was said a year ago or today.  I fully expect that once Bakes On Mesh is released and become well liked by the vast majority of residents, mesh body designers, clothing designers and texture artists you will have to admit you were wrong or leave SL in shame.

18 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Sorry but your chain of logic is flawed... You had a badly thought out half-baked idea, you weren't the first, others had the same badly thought out half-baked idea, therefore by agreeing with your badly thought out half-baked idea, they must be intelligent...
 

I think you must be looking into a mirror.

18 hours ago, Klytyna said:

This is a giant leap backwards in mesh avatar rendering technology... All that effort implementing materials and advanced lighting, and here we are rushing to resurrect all those dreadful items from 12 years ago, for people too sentimental and /or stubborn to set aside the old crap that looks crap. 
 

I have spent hours with Siddean Munro the owner and creator of the SLink avatars testing and playing with a mesh avatar setup to use Bakes On Mesh.  She and I had so much fun changing skins, and tattoos and yes old system clothes to see how they looked.  Surprisingly if they were made well back then with great textures they looked even better on the new avatar.  Yes if the textures were bad quality they still looked bad on the new avatar.  Most of all it was fun just right mouse clicking and wearing things and being able to add one piece of clothes or texture on top of another and we didn't have to touch a HUD!  If that is backwards I am all for it!

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14 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:

No you can't, as Vir said, since bake on mesh isn't aware of what materials are in the first place. You should have the normals and specular maps for each garment to layer in the bake and perform the merge yourself, which is impossible as you can't have all texture clothing possible to create all possible combinations.

You know I think you are great Optimo.  Either Vir misspoke or you didn't understand him correctly.  I have tested it.  Normal maps and specular maps work on any mesh using Baked On Mesh system.  You just have to apply the normal map and specular map either manually or with a script like any other mesh or prim.

All Bakes On Mesh does right now is take the textures your LL default avatar is wearing on one of the 6 areas of the avatar body and flattens them down into diffuse texture.  It then takes that texture and automatically applies it to a mesh using Bakes On Mesh.  Since the default avatar doesn't use normal maps or specular maps they are not available for the Bakes On Mesh code to apply them.

Now it may be possible that LL could create two new system clothing types that would allow us to put the normal map and specular map textures in them and then when worn the Bakes On Mesh could apply those textures maps automatically to a mesh setup to use Bakes On Mesh.

Depending on how much work this would be it may or may not be a feature that would be in the initial release for Baked On Mesh.

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21 minutes ago, Cathy Foil said:

The Content Creators Meetings are open to anyone who wants to attend it is no secret and the meetings are not held in the middle of the night unless you live Far East.

One. Secret doesn't mean "not allowed to go there", it means "most people do not know about it". The secret meetings are secret becasuse, most of sl doesn't know they exist, they don't read this forum, and they don't search the wiki for "times of secret 'Lick a Linden' meetings on the beta grid".

Two. In case you hadn't noticed, a meeting that starts at 3 or 4 pm SLT is midnight to 1 am EU time, on a weekday when people have to be up to work the next day, and had you forgottewn how many of sl's inhabitants live in the UK/EU/Middle East/Africa/Soviet Bloc/Far east/Australasia areas?

Three. Logins to the beta grid have been broken for over two years, even the kludge fix work around for the original break has been disabled by an 18 month old secondary break. And most people don't know how to get past that.

Secret Middle of the Night on the Beta Grid Meetings of Tiny Self Important Snobby Cliques...

26 minutes ago, Cathy Foil said:

I haven't read this claim by the Linen in question so I don't know if you are reporting what they said accurately.  If what you said is true then they are wrong.

It's the claim made by the OP at the start ofthis thread, the third of the so-called benefits of this moronic implementation. That you, a firm supporter of Bake-Fail, failed to notice this in the joyous announcement of "salvage the 50% of your 200 k items inventory that was made before 2010"  feature, just shows how little attention and thought you give to any of this.

1 hour ago, Cathy Foil said:

While yes the initial release isn't going to eliminate the need for all appliers it will greatly reduce the need of much of them and the lag they cause even it is just a small of lag.

Hmmm, so now you are claimingthat SL is suffering a tidalwave of lag caused by people wearing appliers just long enough to click a button... Every time you try to find some AMAZING new improvement to all our lives if we just embrace bake-fail and wear pre-2010 crap on our post 2017 avatars...

You're complete inability to actually think in anything even vaguely resembling "crital thought" causes you to fail even more than your half baked idea for bake-fail 

35 minutes ago, Cathy Foil said:

For example a mesh clothing designer can make mesh and if they wish release the UV pattern and or a decimated version of the mesh for others to texture and then sell those textures using system clothing files.  Then anyone who buys the mesh clothes using Bakes On Mesh and wears it can buy the texture artists system clothing and wear it and mesh clothes will have the texture of the system clothes applied to it automatically.

As I said... You obviously don't actually think about how this will work before foaming at the mouth in praise do you?

You cannot use bake-fail to texture mesh clothing in any practical sense because...

1. Most mesh clothing does NOT use SL-System Avatar uv mapping

2. There are only SIX bake-fail textures available, 4 of those are going to be used on your bake-fail mesh body, head, and eyes. So, that leaves 2 for texturing your mesh clothing, any items of mesh clothing that use the same bake-fail texture will end up textured with the same bake-fail, so your bake-fail-skirt textured thighboots end up with the same texture as your bake-fail-skirt textured blouse.

No... You can't use the lower torso, upper torso and head bake-fails as that would mean your body would have the dress pattern (which uses a non sl-system avatar uv map, smeared across your mesh body... Disaster.

44 minutes ago, Cathy Foil said:

I have spent hours with ******* ***** the owner and creator of the S**** avatars testing and playing with a mesh avatar setup to use Bakes On Mesh.  She and I had so much fun changing skins, and tattoos and yes old system clothes to see how they looked.

.You were obviously having too much fun trying on all the old old stuff from your inventories on her products to actually engage in any meaningful destruction testing, or actual dev-team style thought about potential problems, rendering what little you did, and most everything you have said utterly worthless from an alpha-test-feature feedback perspective.

31 minutes ago, Cathy Foil said:

I know the female SLink avatar is made of 4 layers.  With Bakes On Mesh custom mesh bodies will only need 1 layer.  That is a saves of 75%.

No. Read the thread again (when you learn to read, if you ever do). The only layer on a 4 layer mesh body that can reliably be replaced by bake-fail is thge tattoo layer, thats ONE out of FOUR, thats 25%.

53 minutes ago, Cathy Foil said:

and a whole bunch of there things I can't even imagine

You just identified one of the main problems with bake-fail... The people behind it lack imagination, and thus fail to see all the pitfalls before foaming at the mouth trying to convince all the other 2-digit-IQ-scores that this is the best thing since the invention of domesticated-fire in your caves.

Try stopping for a moment, and actually thinking, and then realising just how pathetic the fraudulent justifications for "Please Mr. Linden let me wear my pre-2010 layers again *lick lick fawn fawn grovel grovel*" really are.

1 hour ago, Cathy Foil said:

You really have no idea about how to disagree with someone in a civil manor do you?

Did I miss the start of this years "International Hug a Self-Entitled Tech-Illiterate Moron Festival" again... 

I do that every year, probably as a result of having spent over a quarter of a century in Tech Support, listening to them whine that reality isn't how they thought it would be.


 

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3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sounds good but..both my male and female alt are Belleza. It is confusing how this would be helpful. Even with Omega, I would still want to use my current skin, and try as I might, I can’t see your statement as hopeful.

Not sure if I understand you. So you were complaining because you couldn't try bake mesh on your no mod body and I am giving you a solution so you can test and you do not find it helpful? Isn't that what you wanted to do by yourself but couldn't? It doesn't matter if you use belleza, you can turn on omega easily as a far I know you don't even need the omega HUD. Once you tested and are OK with it, you can go back to your regular skin if you want. If what you want is to use a regular skin applier with a system layer tattoo, that's not possible and will never happen unless they add some kind of advanced material system with layering support like for example unreal engine 4.

Bakemesh works good for skins just not as useful for clothing layers which doesn't bothers me anyway as I prefer mesh one and once it's set to higher r it will be better. The main issue now it's dividing those people who use skins and those that uses appliers because, as clothing creator, you can't simply include system alpha. Bodies will need to keep their onion layers and annoying alpha groups because not everybody may have a system skin. Luckily some creators still include system skins too with their appliers. The problem is that with those they are highly risking their jobs giving away their skins as it is so easy to steal. Appliers now are the safest way of making skins. 

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Well this discussion looks... um.... lively. 

For those of you trying to try it out on your No-Mod Meshes, there is now an applier sitting on the counter in my lobby http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Omega Solutions/113/150/24   https://gyazo.com/69400049db8dc991d24c5267db807cc3

You can use it on any Omega Friendly Mesh to turn on Bakes on Mesh.  Just beware if you use it on "partial meshes" like implants, tails, ears, etc, you might find yourself with textured mesh but no torso!

 

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7 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sounds good but..both my male and female alt are Belleza. It is confusing how this would be helpful. Even with Omega, I would still want to use my current skin, and try as I might, I can’t see your statement as hopeful.

A lot of this thread has been pretty technical, and some of the posters have less knowledge than they think they do. I'll try to explain things in a less technical manner:

All things in Second Life get their visual representation through "textures". All textures have what's called a UUID - it stands for "universally unique identifier." Think of it as that texture's account name. The viewers use those UUID's to get the data for those textures so it can draw them.

The "avatar bake" is a series of special textures that the system creates by taking the textures of your skin and all of the various layers on top of it and turning those into a series of single texture files which is sent to everyone's viewer. The "avatar bake" is already what's used to put your skin, etc. on the default avatar, but up to this point it couldn't be used to texture anything else. The main part of the avatar bake are the three textures that represent your head, upper body and lower body. There are also bakes for the eyes and the old default "skirt" and "hair" wearables.

An "applier" takes the UUID of a texture and assigns that texture UUID to an object. As an end user, you can use an applier to change the texture of an object that you couldn't normally because the object is no-modify. All major market human avatars use an applier system so that end-users can change the textures on those bodies without having full modify rights. Some bodies/heads require you to use a specific applier only for that part, but there is a series of "Omega" appliers that allow the same applier to work with more than one body - think of it as a sort of universal translation system. Belleza bodies can use Omega appliers.

What this project does is provide certain "magic textures", which are given UUID names like any other textures. When the project viewer sees these "magic texture" UUID's on something worn on your avatar (i.e. a mesh body or head), instead of drawing the graphics for those textures it substitutes the avatar bake texture for one of the default body sections. It simultaneously also "turns off" the rendering of the equivalent section of the default body so you won't have to use the body alpha that's normally worn with a mesh body.

The appliers that Kitsune and Chellynne are offering will send those "magic texture" UUID's to any mesh body that supports that type of applier. This means that with the project viewer (and currently ONLY the project viewer,) you can take an existing mesh body and see your default avatar skin, tattoos, etc. on it. Since the bodies you use support Omega appliers you can use your default avatar skin and tattoos on your mesh body. There might be slight mismatches in the location of some body details depending on how old your skin is. You can't use a "skin" that you only have as an applier and not as a "skin" wearable and show your default avatar tattoos on it though.

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4 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

Not sure if I understand you. So you were complaining because you couldn't try bake mesh on your no mod body and I am giving you a solution so you can test and you do not find it helpful?

No..perhaps you misunderstand. I just didn’t know if it will work for me. I did not understand you were solving the same problem that I was having, and that it would work for Belleza. I will try it. Thank you for your reply.  

(To explain further, yes I already knew that Omega works with Belleza. However for something new like this if Maitreya is listed but not Belleza, I may still make the incorrect assumption that means “not Belleza”.) 

Edited by Love Zhaoying

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1 hour ago, Chellynne Bailey said:

Well this discussion looks... um.... lively. 

For those of you trying to try it out on your No-Mod Meshes, there is now an applier sitting on the counter in my lobby http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Omega Solutions/113/150/24   https://gyazo.com/69400049db8dc991d24c5267db807cc3

You can use it on any Omega Friendly Mesh to turn on Bakes on Mesh.  Just beware if you use it on "partial meshes" like implants, tails, ears, etc, you might find yourself with textured mesh but no torso!

 

Thanks!

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11 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I'll try to explain things in a less technical manner:

Thanks, I read all of the posts closely enough that I understood all this, just not that the Omega solution may work prior to the 2 offers.

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8 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Also... Next time you want a technical explanation, try asking somebody technical...

 

My post was an open question, not a reply to anyone. So, the hope was that “someone technical” would answer.

It may seem obvious to mesh experts, but I just did not notice in Alexa Linden’s original post anywhere that it said this would only work for mod. My bad!

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8 hours ago, Cathy Foil said:

Most of all it was fun just right mouse clicking and wearing things and being able to add one piece of clothes or texture on top of another and we didn't have to touch a HUD! 

I missed what combination makes it this easy for you. Is it because you are using mod mesh bodies?

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28 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I missed what combination makes it this easy for you. Is it because you are using mod mesh bodies?

Once your body has been set to system default skins, you change skins just wearing them, or layer clothing, or alphas. You don't need to use any HUD everytime. You would just need to use a HUD to change between regular appliers or system skin but once you are on system skin you just wear them to change. Think on it as a HUD that makes your avatar to act like the SL default one and once it's set you don't need a HUD to set new skins or alphas or clothing (unless they are only appliers of course). You can combine system skins with clothing appliers and tattoos but not system clothing and tattoos with skins appliers because every time you use any of the system features (skin, clothing or tattoo, etc) you will be forced to use a system skin too. 

And about the mod that you mentioned, bodies are all no mod so far so the only way to apply bake mesh textures to them it's through HUD to change the textures to be the system ones. I guess we will see soon the option included directly on the mesh bodies HUDs itself once bake mesh it's out of beta viewer. So, basically, now it's just there for you to test and once it's live mesh bodies will be updated. 

Edited by Kitsune Shan
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2 minutes ago, Kitsune Shan said:

Once your body has been set to system default skins, you change skins just wearing them, or layer clothing, or alphas. You don't need to use any HUD everytime. You would just need to use a HUD to change between regular appliers or system skin but once you are on system skin you just wear them to change. Think on it as a HUD that makes your avatar to act like the SL default one and once it's set you don't need a HUD to set new skins or alphas or clothing (unless they are only appliers of course). You can combine system skins with clothing appliers and tattoos but not system clothing and tattoos with skins appliers because every time you use any of the system features (skin, clothing or tattoo, etc) you will be forced to use a system skin too. 

And about the mod that you mentioned, bodies are all no mod so far so the only way to apply bake mesh textures to them it's through HUD there changes the textures to be the system ones. I guess we will see soon the option included directly on the mesh bodies HUDs itself once bake mesh it's out of beta viewer. So, basically, now it's just there for you to test and once it's live mesh bodies will be updated. 

I think your explanation is the best one so far.

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11 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

You can't use a skin applier and then a system layer tattoo. 

Meh. That sucks.

 

11 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

From tomorrow (probably) you will be able to find a completely free HUD at Cute or Die store that will let you enable bakes on mesh on maitreya, Catwa and all other omega compatible bodies.

That, however, rocks.

Though aren't you afraid of a mass of raging fanfolks with pitchforks and torches, crying "Copybot!" ... aka folks completely misunderstanding the concept?

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4 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:
11 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

You can't use a skin applier and then a system layer tattoo. 

Meh. That sucks.

Yes, the horror of this dawned on me slowly also.

I have exactly 1 System body skin that I’ve used for most of the last 10 years. Hope it looks ok with Mesh! (I gave up searching system skins originally when I found a skin I liked, even if no one else cared for it.)

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On 4/4/2018 at 9:26 PM, Vir Linden said:

Yes you could. The idea is that you're using the same textures that the system avatar would show, which include whatever tattoos or other items you're wearing. Then if you change your tattoos, your avatar would be rebaked, and the "bakes on mesh" object would update automatically. It's a new special setting in the texture picker that doesn't require you to know any texture IDs.

Hey Vir, I would like to hear about the security flaws that bakes on mesh are bringing for skin creators. I have several friends with skin stores that are very worried about the subject. 

The fact that you can simply wear a prim as HUD set full bright and set easily a skin to show on it makes it very easy to screenshot and upload any skin. 

If you think this may not be something to worry about, please reconsider it. Some of those friends used to make skins for the popular kemono mesh bodies until they realized that people used to take the script out of the body (body it's mod) to drop them on prims that they would wear as HUD and screenshot them. It was very usual for them to see their stolen skins on marketplace and also being used to create new ones after small modifications and being later for sale. They simply stopped doing skins for kemono. 

Creating skins it's a very valuable and artistic job that deserves to be taken into consideration that's why I suggest that, to add some protection to them, disable the possibility of wearing them as HUD. Just like when you rez the mesh or prim with bake on mesh it gets grey, it should be seen grey on HUDs too. I don't see any real reason why we would want or need to change HUDs textures through system skins or clothing. There are very rare cases where HUD textures needs to be changed and there is no any kind of universal HUD that would benefit from the creation and possibility of sharing HUDs skins grid wide. Consider disabling this useless but dangerous capability before skin makers just turn their back to this project and only release appliers which would basically make bakes on mesh obsolete if won't be ever adopted by creators. 

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9 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Meh. That sucks.

 

That, however, rocks.

Though aren't you afraid of a mass of raging fanfolks with pitchforks and torches, crying "Copybot!" ... aka folks completely misunderstanding the concept?

Copy bot? Why lol 

It's an official feature of SL that everyone can use right now with the beta viewer. And doing a HUD to enable bakes on mesh it's just as easy as making an applier. There is nothing that involves copying anything. This would just enable being able to wear old skins and such on the new mesh avatars. Anyway all mesh avatars will enable this through updates probably once isn't beta. If they can't understand the concept that's something that they have to fix theirself. I may include a note card tho explaining how everything works, you gave me the idea :D thank you. 

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8 minutes ago, Kitsune Shan said:

Hey Vir, I would like to hear about the security flaws that bakes on mesh are bringing for skin creators. I have several friends with skin stores that are very worried about the subject. 

The fact that you can simply wear a prim as HUD set full bright and set easily a skin to show on it makes it very easy to screenshot and upload any skin. 

If you think this may not be something to worry about, please reconsider it. Some of those friends used to make skins for the popular kemono mesh bodies until they realized that people used to take the script out of the body (body it's mod) to drop them on prims that they would wear as HUD and screenshot them. It was very usual for them to see their stolen skins on marketplace and also being used to create new ones after small modifications and being later for sale. They simply stopped doing skins for kemono. 

Creating skins it's a very valuable and artistic job that deserves to be taken into consideration that's why I suggest that, to add some protection to them, disable the possibility of wearing them as HUD. Just like when you rez the mesh or prim with bake on mesh it gets grey, it should be seen grey on HUDs too. I don't see any real reason why we would want or need to change HUDs textures through system skins or clothing. There are very rare cases where HUD textures needs to be changed and there is no any kind of universal HUD that would benefit from the creation and possibility of sharing HUDs skins grid wide. Consider disabling this useless but dangerous capability before skin makers just turn their back to this project and only release appliers which would basically make bakes on mesh obsolete if won't be ever adopted by creators. 

I also agree - as was pointed out in the meeting there are multiple ways to make better ripped copies of the skin textures already (even if the skin makers are using appliers) but this is sort of an "in your face" thing. Bakes on mesh won't have an extended life if skin makers don't provide system skins (many don't provide them with their newer appliers now.) Removing the ability to apply them to a HUD will at least give the illusion of security.

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I'm sorry to say that getting the UUID of the texture of any wearable isn't quite trivially easy, but it's not difficult if yo know where to look...it's let me make Maitreya appliers for myself for los of system clothing I've purchased over the years.

This sucks for skin creators in particular, but there's no good way around it.

Disabling HUD display of a baked texture is probably something that should be done - I can see no valid use case for it - but don't delude yourselves that it'll stop copybotting in any real sense.

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3 minutes ago, Tonya Souther said:

I'm sorry to say that getting the UUID of the texture of any wearable isn't quite trivially easy, but it's not difficult if yo know where to look...it's let me make Maitreya appliers for myself for los of system clothing I've purchased over the years.

This sucks for skin creators in particular, but there's no good way around it.

Disabling HUD display of a baked texture is probably something that should be done - I can see no valid use case for it - but don't delude yourselves that it'll stop copybotting in any real sense.

Some skin creators i know are very confused and stressed right now. I would be too if my income depended on SL. This is a serious security breach i am afraid :(

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11 minutes ago, Tonya Souther said:

Disabling HUD display of a baked texture is probably something that should be done - I can see no valid use case for it - but don't delude yourselves that it'll stop copybotting in any real sense.

Why would you kill the most useful application fo mesh baking? Those HUDs need mesh baking the most.

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24 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Why would you kill the most useful application fo mesh baking? Those HUDs need mesh baking the most.

Please explain your reasoning.

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Most huds I see are texture nightmare, consisting of dozens of textures... could be done better, and I doubt mesh baking will stop people making bad HUDs, but at least it would give them other options.

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15 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

From tomorrow (probably) you will be able to find a completely free HUD at Cute or Die store that will let you enable bakes on mesh on maitreya, Catwa and all other omega compatible bodies. We will try to also to update later so you can change other bodies than maitreya without using omega but so far we only got maitreya and Catwa without omega. It will be a good opportunity for all you to test freely without limits. You will be able to go back to your non bake mesh skins just applying any other common applier or saved skin on HUD. 

Let me know when it's in your store. (I went to the store this morning.)

*Edit* I got the one from the Omega Solutions store.

Edited by Love Zhaoying

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