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Bakes on Mesh Feedback Thread

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5 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Thanks for all the clutter that makes it even harder to pick out the relevant info for simple users...

EDIT:

1bf3241925d65ec1bd6bf554c73bf001.jpg

Apparently, I'm doing something wrong with a Maitreya body, the VERY experimental Bakes on Mesh Applier and an old piece of clothing... just don't know what.

Remember that you need to actively wear a relay to use any Omega applier with a Maitreya body. I just tried and it worked for me.

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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15 hours ago, Chellynne Bailey said:

Well this discussion looks... um.... lively. 

For those of you trying to try it out on your No-Mod Meshes, there is now an applier sitting on the counter in my lobby http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Omega Solutions/113/150/24   https://gyazo.com/69400049db8dc991d24c5267db807cc3

You can use it on any Omega Friendly Mesh to turn on Bakes on Mesh.  Just beware if you use it on "partial meshes" like implants, tails, ears, etc, you might find yourself with textured mesh but no torso!

 

Additional update - I've now used the applier with Slink, Maitreya and Tonic bodies and an Ebody beta body. The applier works to apply the bakes-on-mesh texture for all of the bodies but with all but the Slink body the applier causes the default head to be alpha'd out despite my not intentionally wearing anything that should do that. Are you applying the bakes-on-mesh head texture to something like a neck blender? That may be triggering the default head being shut off.

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I tried and I must say i loved it... and I think it will help a lot of people that strugles with mesh head and body huds. 

Did not try any clothes alpha tho... only skin and tattoos

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41 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Additional update - I've now used the applier with Slink, Maitreya and Tonic bodies and an Ebody beta body. The applier works to apply the bakes-on-mesh texture for all of the bodies but with all but the Slink body the applier causes the default head to be alpha'd out despite my not intentionally wearing anything that should do that. Are you applying the bakes-on-mesh head texture to something like a neck blender? That may be triggering the default head being shut off.

I did not have this problem with Belleza. I did have to turn off neck blending.

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1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Additional update - I've now used the applier with Slink, Maitreya and Tonic bodies and an Ebody beta body. The applier works to apply the bakes-on-mesh texture for all of the bodies but with all but the Slink body the applier causes the default head to be alpha'd out despite my not intentionally wearing anything that should do that. Are you applying the bakes-on-mesh head texture to something like a neck blender? That may be triggering the default head being shut off.


Yeah, I did. 

23 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I did not have this problem with Belleza. I did have to turn off neck blending.

Interesting.. so turning off the neckblender turned the head back on?
Does this work for you Theresa?

Yeah, it's another thing we need to remember going forward, anyone just wearing Ears, titts, tails, lady bits, lips or other bits that won't cover an entire UV zone are going to need appliers still.   -tosses that on the heap with Materials, Nails, neckblenders and lashes-

 

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8 minutes ago, Chellynne Bailey said:

Interesting.. so turning off the neckblender turned the head back on?

Misunderstanding..my Head did not disappear because I used correct “body only” alpha. I had to change neck blending because it looked better.

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Ok, for anyone who needs it, there's now 3 appliers in the box, Head, Body and Head+Body so folks only wearing a body or a head don't accidentally have other bits go away!
 

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11 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Thanks for all the clutter that makes it even harder to pick out the relevant info for simple users...

EDIT:

1bf3241925d65ec1bd6bf554c73bf001.jpg

Apparently, I'm doing something wrong with a Maitreya body, the VERY experimental Bakes on Mesh Applier and an old piece of clothing... just don't know what.

Give it a try to our appliers now at our main store Cute or Die at Blueberry Media SIM. We have omega as well as maitreya appliers so you don't need to buy the omega HUD if you haven't it. We have everything properly configured and separated into different body parts. We have also enabled the possibility of using bake mesh on the mesh body clothing layers to prevent the shape of nipples and such when wearing system clothing. I hope you like it, it's totally free. 

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13 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Only metals can be shiny and reflective [you were wrong]

Specular is a term that only refers to one pass in multi pass rendering systems [wrong again]

All rendering/raytracing systems of the past 30 years use diffuse black with a [name of metal] coloured reflection map [wrong again]

Study shader models, then. You're ridiculously ignorant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinn–Phong_shading_model as the Homo Erectus you represent. Before shooting sentences, read up and APPLY the reading on 3D softwares, you'll realize that YOU are wrong. You don't deserve any more of anyone's time in this forum. I already told you to NOT shoot sentences that can too easily be disproven. Now shut up.

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13 hours ago, Klytyna said:

You'd impress me more if you didn't come across as a "couple of years using a couple of apps" type.

Too bad for you that i'm doing rendering for more time than you ever did or will. Keep dreaming to be a super educated technician. You're just an arrongant ignorant.

 

13 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Only metals can be shiny and reflective [you were wrong]

Specular is a term that only refers to one pass in multi pass rendering systems [wrong again]

All rendering/raytracing systems of the past 30 years use diffuse black with a [name of metal] coloured reflection map [wrong again]

You could get more chances to talk to me and be listened to only if you could manage to explain what reflectance at normal is and apply it on rendering. Since you don't have  a clue about physical behavior of materials reacting to light, how do you claim these quoted statements? Which you have also modified to suit your stupid irony. Metals reflect environment light, your oversimplification of my words just shows your total lack of comprehension of this matter.

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1 hour ago, OptimoMaximo said:

You should read web pages before linking them, there is NOTHING in that article that supports your claim that only metallic surfaces support reflections and glossyness, or to support your claim that all metal shaders in all rendering and raytracing apps use 'black diffuse with a [nam,e of metal] coloured reflection map', you would also have noticed that the article refers rather specifically to HARDWARE based rendering solutions in opengl/directx, and says nothing about software based raytracing solutions, such as the renderman compliant raytracing engines..

1 hour ago, OptimoMaximo said:

Too bad for you that i'm doing rendering for more time than you ever did or will.

If your claim was t5rue, you'd be accustomed to apps other than Blender and Maya, and you would have known that not all apps use multi pass rendering and thus do not have specular as one pass of many, because they only do one pass. You would also have known that not all rendering and raytracing apps use the black diffuse +metal colored reflection map method.

Nice try, junior...

1 hour ago, OptimoMaximo said:

your oversimplification of my words j

Hmmm lets check what you actually said shall we...

On 15 March 2018 at 4:08 PM, OptimoMaximo said:

Environment drives how shiny (metallic) a material looks

That seems to be claiming that 'shiny' is a function of metallic surfaces to me, but let's double check...

1 hour ago, OptimoMaximo said:

Metals reflect environment light

Hmmm THAT seems very specific too, apparently you are ignorant enough to think that only METALS exhibit reflections of the environment around them. Maybe you are wrong, shall we check? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specular_reflection Has a nice shot of some very non-metallic paving slabs on a rainy day reflecting a bloody enormous 19th C cast iron environmental object. But you are the rendergod... So the photo must be a fake right ?

On 16 March 2018 at 10:56 AM, OptimoMaximo said:

Blinn and Phong materials REQUIRE black diffuse to define metals

You do know that phong based speculars were being used in raytracing systems such as Povray (a kissing cousin of Pixar's Renderman scene description language), in the mid 90's, and that phong as a term has ZERO to do with metallic shaders exclusively, but is a calculation type that *could* be used in any 'shiny' shader in rendering/raytracing apps, yes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_reflection_model Phone says nothing about black diffuse... Read more.

Are you old enough to remember the mid 90's?

On 16 March 2018 at 10:56 AM, OptimoMaximo said:

A specular highlight is a render pass

Oh look, there you are with that "specular is a rendering pass" nonsense. And since you are fond of wikipedia...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specular_highlight Says you need to read more before talking bollocks.

"A specular highlight is the bright spot of light that appears on shiny objects when illuminated"

6 March 2018 at 10:44 PM, OptimoMaximo said:

SL has no PBR renderer and the legacy diffuse color textures would go broken if they fully implemented a shader like that. So i think they went for a hybrid, using the legacy diffuse color as a PBR's base color channel, resorting to the environment map in order to define metallic areas. But it still uses a blinn-like shader, so it uses Specular and Glossiness which work like in a Spec/Gloss setup. As i said, i see it as an hybrid,

You seem keen on mentioning PBR over and over and over, even claiming that SL materials are a 'hybrid' of PBR and something older...

It's not a hybrid, it's a plain old fashioned simple diffuse/normal/specular system, as used in a great many rendering and raytracing apps of the pre-pbr frenzy era... Diffuse colour multiplied by a diffuse map on a standard kodak colour format, with a normal map, and a specular system based off specular tightness, and another kodak colour setup specular strength/colour from a spec map multiplied by a spec colour. 

The only complication was the decision to use the alpha channels of the specular and normal maps for fine control of the tightness and env-cube relfections, rather than add seperate maps for these.

But you seem to have forgotten that PBR is *relatively* new compared to most of the 3d rendering and raytracing apps of the last 30 plus years. You seem so hung up on PBR, that you seem incapable of realising that there were other approaches before Siggraph 2010, and that non PBR systems are not "PBR hybrids".

None of this has any direct bearing on Bake-Fail, but... *shrugs*
 

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8 hours ago, Chellynne Bailey said:

Ok, for anyone who needs it, there's now 3 appliers in the box, Head, Body and Head+Body so folks only wearing a body or a head don't accidentally have other bits go away!
 

Chellyane, do you have options yet like Kitsune mentions below? The version I picked up at Omega enabled BOM for all parts.  Do the additional features Kitsune mentions below (“using bake mesh on the mesh body clothing layers to prevent the shape of nipples and such”) work with the Omega yet?

4 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

We have everything properly configured and separated into different body parts. We have also enabled the possibility of using bake mesh on the mesh body clothing layers to prevent the shape of nipples and such when wearing system clothing.

 

Edited by Love Zhaoying

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Since there was no technical answer given on how to enable BOM via code, is it fair to guess creators reverse-engineered it by getting Prim Parameters with code after setting BOM manually?

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11 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Remember that you need to actively wear a relay to use any Omega applier with a Maitreya body. 

D'oh... yeah, that part did escape me and didn't cross my mind at all. Thanks.

5 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

Give it a try to our appliers now at our main store Cute or Die at Blueberry Media SIM....

Alright, that worked for clothes, thanks.

However, I guess I'm in for the "Baking Fails" bloopers:

3d853212016311543885cb94723fc009.png

o.O :| :(

(blue eyes = system layer, green ones = LeLutka mesh eyes)

Well. I'm inclined to say "sc*** it, not worth the hassle", at least not for my intentions... too many compromises, too many hurdles to jump for too little positive effect.
I rather play with other stuff. Have fun with this stuff.

Edited by Lillith Hapmouche
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30 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

D'oh... yeah, that part did escape me and didn't cross my mind at all. Thanks.

Alright, that worked for clothes, thanks.

However, I guess I'm in for the "Baking Fails" bloopers:

3d853212016311543885cb94723fc009.png

o.O :| :(

(blue eyes = system layer, green ones = LeLutka mesh eyes)

Well. I'm inclined to say "sc*** it, not worth the hassle", at least not for my intentions... too many compromises, too many hurdles to jump for too little positive effect.
I rather play with other stuff. Have fun with this stuff.

Don’t you have a “head-only” full alpha? Or, are you trying some BOM features that change your head textures? I use different Head/Body and didn’t enable my Head for Omega for these experiments. I did have to use proper Head vs. Body alphas.

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I tried the "head only" alpha and ended up with the red overlay. So I took off that alpha as well and tried a system skin and system eyes to "override" the mesh head ... well, yeah. No.

 

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16 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

I tried the "head only" alpha and ended up with the red overlay. So I took off that alpha as well and tried a system skin and system eyes to "override" the mesh head ... well, yeah. No.

 

So..in one of the above posts, one of the two BOM enablers (I believe the Omega one) was originally enabling BOM for all parts (body and head) with no option. Now they have one that enables parts separately for BOM, so if you don’t want your Head affected, that should work for you, see this:

10 hours ago, Chellynne Bailey said:

Ok, for anyone who needs it, there's now 3 appliers in the box, Head, Body and Head+Body so folks only wearing a body or a head don't accidentally have other bits go away!
 

 

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3 hours ago, Klytyna said:

blah blah blah non sense TLDR blah blah blah

Yes, i'm keen of PBR, and there's a HUGE difference, when using 3D softwares, between specularity, and reflectivity. Because a specular reflection is the AMOUNT of light that gets to bounce off a surfac e, the REFLECTIVITY is the amount of environmental color light that goes back to camera.

Screenshot_1.thumb.png.d9390d8bbde402ece797ca1b859b67d0.png

Screenshot_2.png.cb92810968322962c17baeaef99bad05.png

For your nonsense, there are TWO different inputs for these attributes, so your claim that they are the same is TOTAL BS. But you're the render goddess... so now explain RIGHT here how to make a copper material from these. Honestly, without googling it. If you do and try, you will find out that what i've been saying is the most accurate description in laymen terms, which are still probably too complicated for an Erectus like you. Let this stuff to Neanderthals, CroMagnon and Sapiens and try to keep up and learn from the people you are insulting with your blatant ignorance on the matter. The worst part in the insult generated from your ignorance, is that you also dare to look down at people like @Cathy Foil , for one, and all the others that overtime have DEMONSTRATED, unlike you, to know and understand 3D softwares, each one in their own field of interest at the very least.

EDIT to add: i use MANY different shader models for different types of works in my RL jobs. Since this is not PBR, just legacy shaders, i can gladly cover all of those i know how to use, PBR for game engines, legacy or PBR for different renderers, no problem.

Edited by OptimoMaximo
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OptimoMaximo and Klytyna,

Get a room, you two. This endless back and forth of name-calling and chest-thumping is getting in the way of those of us who are trying to use and understand this feature. Frankly, the level of invective is high enough that I'm surprised the Lindens haven't told you to knock it off.

And if either of you actually understand the SL render engine, how about sticking to how that works? (Although I'm still convinced that only five people on the planet understand the SL renderer, and two of them work for LL.)

Edited by Tonya Souther
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I wore one alpha layer that had eyelashes and eyes - and my skin did not turn red and the eyelashes and system eyes were gone. 

Snapshot0999999999999999999999999999.png

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9 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

D'oh... yeah, that part did escape me and didn't cross my mind at all. Thanks.

Alright, that worked for clothes, thanks.

However, I guess I'm in for the "Baking Fails" bloopers:

3d853212016311543885cb94723fc009.png

o.O :| :(

(blue eyes = system layer, green ones = LeLutka mesh eyes)

Well. I'm inclined to say "sc*** it, not worth the hassle", at least not for my intentions... too many compromises, too many hurdles to jump for too little positive effect.
I rather play with other stuff. Have fun with this stuff.

 

Yeah, I hope no one thinks baking is going to work perfectly right out the gate. The system skins we have now are designed for SL Bodies. If they are going to look right on Mesh ones, all the skin makers who want to support it are going to have to repackage their mesh friendly textures into system layers and rebox everything they have. 

Basically, remember how long it took to get all the skin makers making stuff for Mesh Bodies? It's going to be that again. But once they are done, I think the whole thing is going to work better. What I predict is that we'll have 1 layer for skins & tatts and then 1 or 2 layers for looser items and items with materials. 

 

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On 4/7/2018 at 11:31 AM, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Thanks for all the clutter that makes it even harder to pick out the relevant info for simple users...

EDIT:

1bf3241925d65ec1bd6bf554c73bf001.jpg

Apparently, I'm doing something wrong with a Maitreya body, the VERY experimental Bakes on Mesh Applier and an old piece of clothing... just don't know what.

It looks like you're wearing a system body, not a Maitreya body... or if you're wearing the mesh body, you aren't wearing your system alpha.

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4 hours ago, Anastasia Horngold said:

It looks like you're wearing a system body, not a Maitreya body... or if you're wearing the mesh body, you aren't wearing your system alpha.

One of the most obvious "drive noobs and permanoobs insane" failings of 'Bake-Fail on Mesh' is simply this...

If you wear the system alpha designed to HIDE your system body while wearing a mesh body, as per the instructions given with the body... When you activate Bale-Fail, the WHOLE BODY alpha gets baked into the bake-fail textures applied to your mesh body and it goes invisible.

Invisible mesh body over an invisible system body, by the miracle of Bake-Fail...

So when activating Bake-Fail you have to REMOVE the full body alpha that came with your mesh replacements.

1 hour ago, Chellynne Bailey said:

and it should be easier to get started as a noob user

You were saying ?

1 hour ago, Chellynne Bailey said:

may start getting things done again

... Expect a lot of Bake-Fail using people to ask omega support why using the new test applier made their mesh body & mesh head disappear...

... Expect to need a macro key for support chat that says "when using Bake-Fail take off your full body alpha first"...



 

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