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Alexa Linden

Bakes on Mesh Feedback Thread

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20 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Most huds I see are texture nightmare, consisting of dozens of textures... could be done better, and I doubt mesh baking will stop people making bad HUDs, but at least it would give them other options.

To change textures on a HUD with bakes-on-mesh people would need to wear a massive stack of system wearables and then you'd need some way of adding and removing each wearable when the buttons were pressed, then wait for the configuration to be sent to the baking service and for the new bake to arrive before you'd see a change.

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4 hours ago, Chellynne Bailey said:

Well this discussion looks... um.... lively. 

For those of you trying to try it out on your No-Mod Meshes, there is now an applier sitting on the counter in my lobby http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Omega Solutions/113/150/24   https://gyazo.com/69400049db8dc991d24c5267db807cc3

You can use it on any Omega Friendly Mesh to turn on Bakes on Mesh.  Just beware if you use it on "partial meshes" like implants, tails, ears, etc, you might find yourself with textured mesh but no torso!

 

Got it! So far got the "All-red" body after installing Omega on a fresh body then using your attachment.,  I guess that is good! Attempting system skins I have, and my tattoos..it stays "All-red" so far.  This is with Belleza body. Will keep poking it.

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11 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Got it! So far got the "All-red" body after installing Omega on a fresh body then using your attachment.,  I guess that is good! Attempting system skins I have, and my tattoos..it stays "All-red" so far.  This is with Belleza body. Will keep poking it.

You'll need to take off the full-body alpha you normally wear with your body. What it's doing is erasing the bake information (which is its job) but there's now nothing to texture the body with. The bakes-on-mesh system will automatically turn off the appropriate sections of your default body without needing the body alpha.

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5 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You'll need to take off the full-body alpha you normally wear with your body. What it's doing is erasing the bake information (which is its job) but there's now nothing to texture the body with. The bakes-on-mesh system will automatically turn off the appropriate sections of your default body without needing the body alpha.

Odd, I don't even see it to remove. Keep in mind, I opened a brand new body for this testing - and I may have neglected to wear the alpha in the first place.  Any hints?

Jake BakesOnMesh All Red 20180407_001.jpg

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Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Odd, I don't even see it to remove. Keep in mind, I opened a brand new body for this testing - and I may have neglected to wear the alpha in the first place.  Any hints?

Jake BakesOnMesh All Red 20180407_001.jpg

Ahh, looks like it's your CATWA alpha. It's set up to do the job of both the head and body alphas, apparently.

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5 hours ago, Chellynne Bailey said:

Well this discussion looks... um.... lively. 

For those of you trying to try it out on your No-Mod Meshes, there is now an applier sitting on the counter in my lobby http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Omega Solutions/113/150/24   https://gyazo.com/69400049db8dc991d24c5267db807cc3

You can use it on any Omega Friendly Mesh to turn on Bakes on Mesh.  Just beware if you use it on "partial meshes" like implants, tails, ears, etc, you might find yourself with textured mesh but no torso!

 

So far I've tested it with Tonic and Slink bodies and a LAQ head. Both show the bakes fine - the Tonic body erases the default head even though I wasn't wearing anything that would trigger the erasing of that section. It probably has something to do with the way Tonic body parts are linked scriptwise with the main body portion.

As far as skins, old Curio and Belleza skins work quite well but with minor nipple issues. Al Vulo skins have major nipple-position problems. Some Redgrave skins should also work - there have been many generations of Redgrave skins so your mileage may vary. A Redgrave skin actually had better mapping with the LAQ head than some of the appliers LAQ specifically made for their older skins.

Any off-the-shelf skin will have issues at the fingertips and toes but those could be fixed easily enough with tattoo layers, or you could use traditional appliers for those parts if they're available.

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2 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

Hey Vir, I would like to hear about the security flaws that bakes on mesh are bringing for skin creators. I have several friends with skin stores that are very worried about the subject. 

The fact that you can simply wear a prim as HUD set full bright and set easily a skin to show on it makes it very easy to screenshot and upload any skin. 

If you think this may not be something to worry about, please reconsider it. Some of those friends used to make skins for the popular kemono mesh bodies until they realized that people used to take the script out of the body (body it's mod) to drop them on prims that they would wear as HUD and screenshot them. It was very usual for them to see their stolen skins on marketplace and also being used to create new ones after small modifications and being later for sale. They simply stopped doing skins for kemono. 

Creating skins it's a very valuable and artistic job that deserves to be taken into consideration that's why I suggest that, to add some protection to them, disable the possibility of wearing them as HUD. Just like when you rez the mesh or prim with bake on mesh it gets grey, it should be seen grey on HUDs too. I don't see any real reason why we would want or need to change HUDs textures through system skins or clothing. There are very rare cases where HUD textures needs to be changed and there is no any kind of universal HUD that would benefit from the creation and possibility of sharing HUDs skins grid wide. Consider disabling this useless but dangerous capability before skin makers just turn their back to this project and only release appliers which would basically make bakes on mesh obsolete if won't be ever adopted by creators. 

Disabling BOM from HUD attachments isn't going to stop anyone who wants to snag a texture this way.
You can just attach a default prim to a normal attachment point - avatar center for example - slap a BOM texture on it & screenshot it with just the same ease.

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49 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

Disabling BOM from HUD attachments isn't going to stop anyone who wants to snag a texture this way.
You can just attach a default prim to a normal attachment point - avatar center for example - slap a BOM texture on it & screenshot it with just the same ease.

At least isn't so perfect if isn't a HUD.
Another option could be to not use on anything that isn't skinned. Yeah, people could still do a plane and skin it to the body but all these options are still better than doing absolutely nothing. I knew this could carry a lot of security flaws and I have already discussed with others creators. But not because something it's possible to do it in other ways means that we just have to make it even easier. For such fact, since there it's copybot viewers, we just should allow everyone to right click and save every single asset? No, right? So this it's the same case. Still, using skins or clothing for a HUD its totally useless and ridiculous and I havent seen a single comment that says otherwise. There is simply not any case where this could be useful. I just hope some security measures before this goes totally live. The damage for skin creators could be huge and I don't see any reasson to release a new feature that, besides not being a real necessity (there are other features that would be more useful for creators and residents), it could do more harm than any benefit. Sure you can now wear your old skins but, in exchange of what? Skin creators are more likely to only create skins for appliers from now on so this feature will be totally useless besides those that stuck in 2009 with their old skins in which case they probably still use standard avatar anyway.

Edited by Kitsune Shan
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12 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Did I miss the start of this years "International Hug a Self-Entitled Tech-Illiterate Moron Festival" again... 

I do that every year, probably as a result of having spent over a quarter of a century in Tech Support, listening to them whine that reality isn't how they thought it would be.

 

It's a good thing you weren't in project management then, seeing as how your time and cost estimates for when and how much a working bake-on-mesh avatar upgrade would be available were "2019" and "3 to 10 thousand Linden" when the actual figures were, "in less than a day" and "free."

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13 hours ago, Cathy Foil said:

You know I think you are great Optimo.  Either Vir misspoke or you didn't understand him correctly.  I have tested it.  Normal maps and specular maps work on any mesh using Baked On Mesh system.  You just have to apply the normal map and specular map either manually or with a script like any other mesh or prim.

I'm sorry Cathy, the statement from Vir is in this thread, he says bake on mesh isn't aware of materials. So i understand what you mean, but this implies that i have to be the creator of all involved layers to bake, so that i can create as many normal/specular maps combinations as the clothing items number i have available. And then, apply them when a certain baked combination is being formed by the user. This isn't feasible. Plus, i can't do this procedure with older content from other creators.

 

13 hours ago, Cathy Foil said:

Now it may be possible that LL could create two new system clothing types that would allow us to put the normal map and specular map textures in them and then when worn the Bakes On Mesh could apply those textures maps automatically to a mesh setup to use Bakes On Mesh.

Depending on how much work this would be it may or may not be a feature that would be in the initial release for Baked On Mesh.

This is what discourage me. LL has proven million times that their choice is likely to fall onto the cheapest and least committing solution. So you will understand me if i'm not gonna hold my breath for this. I will be glad to have been wrong, if what you envision here is going to happen for real.

 

12 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Did I miss the start of this years "International Hug a Self-Entitled Tech-Illiterate Moron Festival" again...

no you don't miss it any day of the year: it begins right at the moment you log into SL and has a break when you log out. I disagree with all the supporters of Bake On Mesh, and i think they can't see my point as well as you do think they can't see your point, but for gods sake dare i insult them. Your spite and acid irony really shows the total illiterate you are, under all standpoints. Not only you fail at making your point across in such  a way that people is more inclined to listen and understand, but you totally lack understanding of 3D platforms and engines. You claim "disasters" that can be easily overcome if they really wanted this feature. The problem lies in the feature being exclusively based on avatar attachments, instead of having an actual development of the material system that could layer materials and lighting textures, improving the rendering and making things lighter by extending their shader, which takes a nice overhead at current state and can be optimized while improving it.

 

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4 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

To change textures on a HUD with bakes-on-mesh people would need to wear a massive stack of system wearables and then you'd need some way of adding and removing each wearable when the buttons were pressed, then wait for the configuration to be sent to the baking service and for the new bake to arrive before you'd see a change.



Yeah..please no... x.x there's zero reason to use this for HUD textures. Scripts can texture HUDs fine. If a HUD is texture heavy it's they didn't spend the time to optimize it.

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7 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

My post was an open question, not a reply to anyone. So, the hope was that “someone technical” would answer.

It may seem obvious to mesh experts, but I just did not notice in Alexa Linden’s original post anywhere that it said this would only work for mod. My bad!

The problem is... Neither did she...

SL Rule #1: NEVER assume members of the Linden Clan are better or more clued up than you. Some might be, most are not.
 

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1 hour ago, OptimoMaximo said:

but you totally lack understanding of 3D platforms and engines.

Coming from somebody who has in their posts on rendering topics, claimed that...

Only metals can be shiny and reflective [you were wrong]

Specular is a term that only refers to one pass in multi pass rendering systems [wrong again]

All rendering/raytracing systems of the past 30 years use diffuse black with a [name of metal] coloured reflection map [wrong again]

... coming from you that's rich indeed.

You'd impress me more if you didn't come across as a "couple of years using a couple of apps" type. 15 years ago I was dealing with people like you who kept claiming "ambient makes it glow", 10 years ago, with people who claimed "rendertime subdivision polys are low in 3d-collesterol and don't take as long to render as real hand modeled polys which are fattening!".

1 hour ago, OptimoMaximo said:

The problem lies in the feature being exclusively based on avatar attachments, instead of having an actual development of the material system that could layer materials and lighting textures

Last year I responded to the bake-fail fanboys with a suggestion that what SHOULD have been developed was a 'universal composite bake' system, based of notecards and new lsl script commands, where you would list the uuid's of the image layers you wanted to composite in the order you wanted to layer them, for diffuse, normal and specular, and the LL applier script would generate the composited texture and apply it to the face of the 'prim' specified in the notecard.

The bake-failures screamed in horror at that because... 

It wasn't supportive of non-creators being able to wear their pre-2010 system clothing collection on their new no-onion mesh bodies.



 

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2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

when the actual figures were, "in less than a day" and "free."

Are they? Hmmm I must have missed the announcements from all the mesh body and head creators that they are releasing Bake-Failure Compatible No-Onions Low 3d-collesterol meshes today, free, rather than several months after the bake-fail project viewer code has been deemed tested and merged with the release viewer code, and charging people thousands of L$ for the new Bake-Failure Mesh bodies and heads.

I wonder how I missed that...

Maybe because it hasn't happened yet. 

 

Edited by Klytyna
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5 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Most huds I see are texture nightmare, consisting of dozens of textures... could be done better, and I doubt mesh baking will stop people making bad HUDs, but at least it would give them other options.

Not really no, remember, a bake-fail texture is not permanent... It's constantly regenerated every time you add or remove anything and your viewer sends the server a change-of-outfit notification.

There are exactly SIX bake-fail textures available, 4 are used for body, head and eyes, leaving TWO, if people started using bake-fail on huds, how long do you think it will take for people wearing huds to find themselves wearing two or more huds using the same bake-fail texture... wear the system layer for hud A and huds B and C get overwritten and become unreadable/unuseable

Bake-fail on huds isn't a smart idea.
 

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17 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Last year I responded to the bake-fail fanboys with a suggestion that what SHOULD have been developed was a 'universal composite bake' system, based of notecards and new lsl script commands, where you would list the uuid's of the image layers you wanted to composite in the order you wanted to layer them, for diffuse, normal and specular, and the LL applier script would generate the composited texture and apply it to the face of the 'prim' specified in the notecard.

The bake-failures screamed in horror at that because... 

 

I seem to recall one simply telling you that if it relied on your having all the UUID's then you just invented Photoshop because it would only work for files you owned.

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16 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Are they? Hmmm I must have missed the announcements from all the mesh body and head creators that they are releasing Bake-Failure Compatible No-Onions Low 3d-collesterol meshes today, free, rather than several months after the bake-fail project viewer code has been deemed tested and merged with the release viewer code, and charging people thousands of L$ for the new Bake-Failure Mesh bodies and heads.

I wonder how I missed that...

Maybe because it hasn't happened yet. 

 

Then how are Love and I using avatars from major mesh manufacturers that use bakes-on-mesh? Did you specify that the avatars would need to have the layers removed? Good Lord, you'd be fired as a project management intern.

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2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I seem to recall one simply telling you that if it relied on your having all the UUID's then you just invented Photoshop because it would only work for files you owned.

Yes I remember...

You should remember that I am an opponent of bake-fail, I think it's a waste of time, but if we HAVE to have bake-fail, it should at least be bake-fail that's properly thought out and actually has some potential to be useful...

Personally, I'd rather they had spent the last years bake-fail dev-team time on something else, like fixing the beta grid logins, or undoing that 2014 "Stealth Draw distance Increment for prims over 10m in size" rubbish that's left so many buildings in SL looking bloody awful as they cross your Official DD range limit.
 

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8 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

you'd be fired as a project management intern.

Most project managers deserve to be fired... Generally a useless class of people, they lack the skills to actually do anything or plan, and spend their time telling the techs that they have done that too-complicated-for-Liberal-Arts-Pseudo-Subject-Graduate-Life-Fails techy stuff all wrong, and their powerpoint presentation PROVES it.

Remember... YOU said the whole point of bake-fail was to ELIMINATE the Onion-Bodies forever!!

Now you claim we don't need to do that, so what exatly was the point of bake-fail other than "whine whine I can't wear my pre-2010 system crap on my mesh".

Best place for Project Management... In front of a wall, smoking a last cigarette, blindfold optional...

 

Edited by Klytyna
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3 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Yes I remember...

You should remember that I am an opponent of bake-fail, I think it's a waste of time, but if we HAVE to have bake-fail, it should at least be bake-fail that's properly thought out and actually has some potential to be useful...

Personally, I'd rather they had spent the last years bake-fail dev-team time on something else, like fixing the beta grid logins, or undoing that 2014 "Stealth Draw distance Increment for prims over 10m in size" rubbish that's left so many buildings in SL looking bloody awful as they cross your Official DD range limit.
 

Guess where I've been testing the project viewer?

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Just now, Klytyna said:

Most project managers deserve to be fired... Generally a useless class of people, they lack the skills to actually do anything or plan, and spend their time telling the techs that they have done that too-complicated-for-Liberal-Arts-Pseudo-Subject-Graduate-Life-Fails techy stuff all wrong, and their powerpoint presentation PROVES it.

Best place for Project Management... In front of a wall, smoking a last cigarette, blindfold optional...
 

Seems to me that's what you're doing your ownself; you're just doing it badly. Hence...

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13 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Remember... YOU said the whole point of bake-fail was to ELIMINATE the Onion-Bodies forever!!

 

Show me where I said that.

(You can take the girl out of Missouri, but you can't take the Missouri out of the girl...)

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Thanks for all the clutter that makes it even harder to pick out the relevant info for simple users...

EDIT:

1bf3241925d65ec1bd6bf554c73bf001.jpg

Apparently, I'm doing something wrong with a Maitreya body, the VERY experimental Bakes on Mesh Applier and an old piece of clothing... just don't know what.

Edited by Lillith Hapmouche
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19 hours ago, Klytyna said:

One. Secret doesn't mean "not allowed to go there", it means "most people do not know about it". The secret meetings are secret becasuse, most of sl doesn't know they exist, they don't read this forum, and they don't search the wiki for "times of secret 'Lick a Linden' meetings on the beta grid".
 

I think you need to learn the definition of secret.  Perhaps English isn't your first language?  There are lots of stuff most people don't know.  It doesn't make them secrets.  For well over a year the Content Creators Meetings were held on the regular SL grid.  They were switched to the Beta because Animesh is not available yet in SL and only works on the Beta grid for testing.  Seeing that it only makes sense that content creators working on Animesh would need to demonstrate what they are working on and bugs they may find at the meetings having them on the Beta Grid just is logical.  No conspiracies to hide anything from anyone.

19 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Two. In case you hadn't noticed, a meeting that starts at 3 or 4 pm SLT is midnight to 1 am EU time, on a weekday when people have to be up to work the next day, and had you forgottewn how many of sl's inhabitants live in the UK/EU/Middle East/Africa/Soviet Bloc/Far east/Australasia areas?

No the meetings are every Thursday at 1 pm SLT.  Since LL is based in America and as far as I know all of LL employees are in America meetings have to be held during business hours when the employees are on the job Monday through Friday.  You know it doesn't take a rocket scientists to realize these things.  

19 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Three. Logins to the beta grid have been broken for over two years, even the kludge fix work around for the original break has been disabled by an 18 month old secondary break. And most people don't know how to get past that.

Secret Middle of the Night on the Beta Grid Meetings of Tiny Self Important Snobby Cliques...
 

As far as I know this is no longer the case and I have not heard from anyone that they can't log into the Beta Grid.  It doesn't take more than a simple Google search to find instructions on how to log into the Beta Grid.  I am sorry if you don't have the brain power to figure it out.

There is no secret meetings going on.  It is always midnight someplace on the planet.  You do know the Earth is sphere and that it spins and goes around the sun?

I am sure you see one and every group of people as snobs and cliques because the way you speak to people is so rude and filled with anger I am hardly anyone can stand to have you around.

You don't bring anything to the table.  Your insights are horrible.  You offer no helpful suggestions.  Your manors and interpersonal skill are atrocious.  You are not worth anybodies time reading or responding to.  Definitely not worth anymore of my time.

I wish you luck and hope your real life is a much happier one than I imagine it to be judging by the way you write in your posts.

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