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Bakes on Mesh Feedback Thread

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On 5/16/2019 at 5:39 PM, Rathgrith027 said:

BoM is in the Release Candidate stage, meaning the versions of BoM in development right now are feature complete and with the exception of a few bugs, ready to be pushed (added) to the main grid. Once the last of the big kinks are sorted, We *should* see a release announcement at the end of May if not sometime in June if there are no major problems with the RC.

However, It'll take longer for TPVs to add this code to their viewers, probably at least 2 weeks.

*** faints ***

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On 5/16/2019 at 5:39 PM, Rathgrith027 said:

BoM is in the Release Candidate stage, meaning the versions of BoM in development right now are feature complete and with the exception of a few bugs, ready to be pushed (added) to the main grid. Once the last of the big kinks are sorted, We *should* see a release announcement at the end of May if not sometime in June if there are no major problems with the RC.

However, It'll take longer for TPVs to add this code to their viewers, probably at least 2 weeks.

OMG, my aliens bodies will be real!

[runs to finish work]

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Posted (edited)

I made a baked on mesh avatar that uses default sl skins and played around with it a bit. It's pretty cool! I have a question/suggestion though:

Why can they not use alpha? People have things they will want to use on their baked mesh avatars (heads, feet/shoes). Since the SL avatar is automatically hidden when wearing mesh, it should not be a problem if alpha is baked onto a mesh avatar.

P.S. - Hands and feet were a huge pain to match the UVs, especially feet.

 

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60731890_2291369657586033_582846569808658432_n.png

Edited by Cracker Hax
added hand pic
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2 hours ago, Cracker Hax said:

I made a baked on mesh avatar that uses default sl skins and played around with it a bit. It's pretty cool! I have a question/suggestion though:

Why can they not use alpha? People have things they will want to use on their baked mesh avatars (heads, feet/shoes). Since the SL avatar is automatically hidden when wearing mesh, it should not be a problem if alpha is baked onto a mesh avatar.

 

Edit the avatar, set the alpha mode to "alpha masking" and then set your alpha cutoff to something higher than 0 (it goes from 0 to 255.) That will allow worn alphas to be used the same way they are on the default avatar.

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can't wait until this feature goes live, it's been a long time coming. this is going to open up avatar creation to more people and make it easier, not needing onion layer meshes and applier scripts, which also reduces the over all weight and rendering costs of the avatar. to me this is the way it should have always been once they allowed custom mesh on the grid.

for all the things it can't do, there is the current way of doing things that a creator can incorporate to achieve whatever they want.

and it makes the SL clothing layers relevant again.

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What will happen with the bodies that don´t use SL UV maps and the bodies and heads that won´t be updated to BOM? Will they still be usable? I mean, will we be able to use the appliers we have on it?

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18 minutes ago, Cesartje said:

What will happen with the bodies that don´t use SL UV maps and the bodies and heads that won´t be updated to BOM? Will they still be usable? I mean, will we be able to use the appliers we have on it?

No, because the UV map dictates how the texture is applied. Different UV map = different result.

If you have a body with custom UV maps, you'll be fine as long as you use custom textures that match with the UVs.

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52 minutes ago, Cesartje said:

What will happen with the bodies that don´t use SL UV maps and the bodies and heads that won´t be updated to BOM? Will they still be usable? I mean, will we be able to use the appliers we have on it?

The bodies and heads you currently have will not be changed. They will continue to work the same way they do now, including appliers.

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7 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

No, because the UV map dictates how the texture is applied. Different UV map = different result.

If you have a body with custom UV maps, you'll be fine as long as you use custom textures that match with the UVs.

Not entirely accurate, but close enough.

7 hours ago, Cesartje said:

What will happen with the bodies that don´t use SL UV maps and the bodies and heads that won´t be updated to BOM? Will they still be usable? I mean, will we be able to use the appliers we have on it?

Things that aren't changed, won't change.  If you have a model that hasn't been updated since 2002, like a prim rabbit, it will work how it did in 2003.  BOM won't even be visible to end users, unless the models are unlocked.

The applier tools that were available in 2001 will be available for all makers.  You'll just apply custom maps to the correct skin zones, unless the object isn't linked to BOM.

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14 minutes ago, Shnurui Troughton said:

Not entirely accurate, but close enough.

I (genuinely) love being corrected, what wasn't accurate?

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17 minutes ago, Shnurui Troughton said:

Things that aren't changed, won't change.  If you have a model that hasn't been updated since 2002, like a prim rabbit, it will work how it did in 2003.  BOM won't even be visible to end users, unless the models are unlocked.

I meant the new bento heads and bodies - I doubt some will update for BOM - but as I got from the explanations above, if it's not made for BOM, the appliers will work fine.

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@Cesartje Anything that already has appliers made for it won't need an update of any kind for BOM.

A regular applier can be used to apply the BOM textures like any other -- they will update automatically as you add/remove layers from your avatar.

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Materials affect layout and positioning.

UV affects texture orientation and alignment.

You can use the same uv on multiple materials, but they won't show up unless they're set to.

Simple example:

Cosmetic masks and face skin masks use the uv that includes hair, teeth, and tongue.

Yet, applying a mascara or lipstick uv doesn't change the face, except in earlier designs that had the slider values.  Even then, they didn't affect the teeth or the back of the head, even though some maps "paint" those areas.

This was before layers were available.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Shnurui Troughton said:

Materials affect layout and positioning.

UV affects texture orientation and alignment.

You can use the same uv on multiple materials, but they won't show up unless they're set to.

Simple example:

Cosmetic masks and face skin masks use the uv that includes hair, teeth, and tongue.

Yet, applying a mascara or lipstick uv doesn't change the face, except in earlier designs that had the slider values.  Even then, they didn't affect the teeth or the back of the head, even though some maps "paint" those areas.

This was before layers were available.

I'm sorry but I think you're the one off-mark based on that explanation.

  • First of all, you don't "apply a UV." The UV layout is part of the mesh itself, not the texture.
    • There is no "mascara UV" or "lipstick UV." There is only the "head UV."
       
  • The UV map doesn't do anything for "alignment" on its own.
    • "Orientation, positioning, and layout" are all the same thing and are done on the UV map. This can be used to align things.
       
  • In SL, any object can only have a single UV map.
    • Materials allow separate textures to be applied to different faces. This is not related to the UV layout.
    • You don't "use the same UV on multiple materials," it's the other way around.
       
  • The reason why you can apply a texture to a mesh (for example, the lips) but not affect other areas of it is because the lips have a separate material from the rest of the head.
Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I'm sorry but I think you're the one off-mark based on that explanation.

  • First of all, you don't "apply a UV." The UV layout is part of the mesh itself, not the texture.
    • There is no "mascara UV" or "lipstick UV." There is only the "head UV."
       
  • The UV map doesn't do anything for "alignment" on its own.
    • "Orientation, positioning, and layout" are all the same thing and are done on the UV map. This can be used to align things.
       
  • In SL, any object can only have a single UV map.
    • Materials allow separate textures to be applied to different faces. This is not related to the UV layout.
    • You don't "use the same UV on multiple materials," it's the other way around.
       
  • The reason why you can apply a texture to a mesh (for example, the lips) but not affect other areas of it is because the lips have a separate material from the rest of the head.

Right.  You don't apply a uv.  You apply a texture and the UV aligns and orientates the texture.

Please read slower.

Which is it?

Materials, which become "faces" inside Secondlife, affect access to uv mapping or lips have to be carefully painted? 

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6 hours ago, Cloud Zifer said:

not sure if this has been asked but does anyone know if you will be able to alpha aux tattoos ?

They're planning on allowing the new channels to have an alpha background - that's being worked on in an update to the baking service.

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3 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

They're planning on allowing the new channels to have an alpha background - that's being worked on in an update to the baking service.

That's great news!

Thank you

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I cannot login to aditi grid for bakes on mesh viewer, it says in grid status : 

"Investigating - We are currently preforming unscheduled maintenance on Profiles. While this maintenance is in progress, Profiles may be unavailable. Please watch this blog for updates. 
May 22, 09:09 PDT" 

I think it still keeps on 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, daFlesh said:

I cannot login to aditi grid for bakes on mesh viewer, it says in grid status : 

"Investigating - We are currently preforming unscheduled maintenance on Profiles. While this maintenance is in progress, Profiles may be unavailable. Please watch this blog for updates. 
May 22, 09:09 PDT" 

I think it still keeps on 

You can use the Bakes on Mesh viewer on the main grid and the baking will work - it's been on the main grid for months. I also was just able to log into Aditi with the viewer = were you able to log on before? It may have been a temporary problem. The profile maintenance shouln't have any effect on that.

Edited by Theresa Tennyson

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5 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You can use the Bakes on Mesh viewer on the main grid and the baking will work - it's been on the main grid for months. I also was just able to log into Aditi with the viewer = were you able to log on before? It may have been a temporary problem. The profile maintenance shouln't have any effect on that.

I havent been logged on for long time, yes its okay now , I can login, thanks :)

 

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I have been testing with BOM today with the latest viewer and playing with the new kind of assets. I have to say that the way they work it's really confusing. Like, what's the point of having left arm and leg ig you can't alpha mask them?? It's nice to have auxiliar textures that has been added to the tattoo as well but how do you expect people to use these if you can't mask them? We should have also "Universal Alpha Mask" with the same amount of alphas that we have for the Universal one including all extra textures like aux1, 2, 3, etc...
I can't believe either that we haven't a way of using normals and specular maps. It's like for very single step we go forward, we do two back. Can't we really get something simply completely implemented for once rather than half unfinished stuff that kinda "works"? I really liked BOM but I don't see much sense on it if we can't use them to wear alphas on the extra textures, neither clothing through layers, etc... I can understand leaving the old stuff intact for compatibility but not without adding their equivalent for BOM new channels. I see no sense on having separated left arm if you can't hide it after wearing a mesh shirt. It simply makes no sense and I am not even sure how you guys even reached the conclusion that doing it in this way was ok at all.

I also noticed this super mega weird behavior... if you decide that your avatar needs more than head, upper and lower and go for the usage of left_arm too because maybe for some weird reason you want a separated left_arm after all lol... and then, you use the Universal one as skin instead of tattoo, you get a lot of troubles. The main one is that you are supossed to use as tattoo but the skin wearable type does not contains all the extra slots. So you use Universal as main skin one, but then you wear another Universal one on top of it and this one you really will use as tattoo layer which means that it will contain alpha blending images all over since the background of a tattoo it's usually transparent. NOPE!! you can't!! For some reason the alpha of the tattoo get's also applied to the alpha of the first Universal layer that you wore below (but inversed!!!) which leads you to a skin that gets transparent where the tattoo should be lmao. How is all this not being taken into account before? I hope all this gets sorted before release.

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Here is an example of what I exactly mean.
So you use Universal layer as background layer for a skin because you want to use left arm for example, just like in the image.
Then you use the texture shown in the image that it's a gradient as if it were a tattoo also using Universal (since it's the only way after all).
The parts that are between certain degree of transparency and opacity gets transparent just like "gradient tattoo" itself. Areas completely transparent or completely opaque remains opaque in the layer below too just not the in between alpha values it seems.
I really don't know why their alphas would mix. If the layer on bottom it's opaque or have certain alpha, it should remain despite of the layer added on top. If you were to wear a layer on top of, for example, a shirt in which you would add some semi-transparent shadows for depth purpose, you would get transparent results on them.
1576887212_519b006863b9635b82b88d7cb6c8edcb1.thumb.png.7c37c6436b855cb835f9d518a5c9de96.png

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Posted (edited)

It is my understanding (anyone: please correct me if I'm wrong) that the primary benefit of bakes on mesh will be that I can wear the old system layers (a.k.a. "System clothes for classic avatars") and they will then bake through the server (the way they still do for system avatars) and that baked texture appears on the mesh body and head.

In short: turning mesh bodies and head into "classic avatars" ability to wear system clothing and skin and *tattoos*, etc. No need for alpha anything. No need to onion-skin layers in the mesh (which are here to stay and so I hope creators will release two versions: Onion-skin layers and no-layers BOM version.) If I don't want the tattoo I don't "alpha" that layer, I just take it off. (Un-wear it)

Edited by Alyona Su

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12 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

It is my understanding (anyone: please correct me if I'm wrong) that the primary benefit of bakes on mesh will be that I can wear the old system layers.

Yes that's it. But they have also added extra channels but you can't alpha them so they are pretty much useless.

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