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Alexa Linden

Bakes on Mesh Feedback Thread

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

If you want to try a head that already has bakes on mesh enabled .. go grab a demo of a Lelutka head. It has Bakes ready to go. You just have to check the feature in the head's HUD and you can use bakes. Once the feature is truly released I'm sure TPV will start coming out with their BoM viewers and then the head and body creators will start releasing their BoM updates. I think it's going to be a slow start though, especially with skinners catching up and releasing system layers. So patience is key in this process. 

Thanks for the help still learning this. I already had the new LeLutka.Head.Korina 3.3 yes has baked on mesh.   I also got the baked on mesh  skin from alaskametro<3 that was at skin fair last month it does work on the body does have one for the head also for lelutka.  We may have to wait for sl to fix the updates for the mesh heads as they did say their still some fixes. But will keep looking on the blog page and updates.  But hope the skins be match up  I know t his all new right now it will be close to it until the head fix.

 

Any classic skin will work on any mesh body you just use the layers on your hud but as long a  head applier that matches until the fixes but if someone figure out the head thing that is a plus. But some skins may have to be updated to fit the body as some have I seen already some makeup and clothes have been updated on market place.  Many skins  do fit I have tried been testing.

I also seen if I go baked on mesh mode tried a mesh bikini that the bottom for dressing well that did not fit in some areas so I guess if your in baked on mesh mode  your trying to  save outfit or skin best to find something that fits or baked on mesh clothes bikini or some mesh stuff.

Edited by Vanoralynna

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Just wanted to clear up the mesh head issues.  The problems you are seeing are the result of the mesh head designer deciding to use UVs that are different than the LL Default avatar head UVs.  If you wear a skin that was designed to use the LL Default avatar head UVs on a custom mesh head that is using different UV layout the skin will not look right.  It is not being caused by Bakes On Mesh.

The reason Bakes On Mesh works better with all custom mesh bodies is because the custom mesh body designers all use the LL Default avatar UVs.  A number of mesh head designers are using their own modified version of the LL Default avatar head UVs.  Skin designers wishing to make skins for these heads have to make their textures to fit the UV layout of the particular head.  This means they have to upload a separate textures they custom make to fit each head designer's heads.

So what is the solution?  Each skin designer that is making skins now and currently using appliers will have to make a system skin using the same textures they already are using with the appliers.  Then they just have to name the skin with the name of the mesh head that skin is supposed to work with.  So as the customer when you buy their skin you will receive multiple skins made for specific heads.

Now it would be smart of those custom mesh head designers to provide two heads to their customers.  One with their own custom or modified UVs and one that has the LL Default avatar head UVs.  They both can use Bakes On Mesh but the head using the LL Default avatar head UVs will be able to use any skin textures made for the LL Default avatar and also make it a lot less work for skin designers as they can merely create one skin instead of having to make multiple versions for multiple heads not using the LL Default avatar head UVs.  Of course it is totally up to the custom mesh head designers if they want to provide two heads or not.

I think that those mesh heads that don't at least provide a mesh head using the LL Default avatar head UVs will loose out and sale will drop.

The thing to remember is Bakes On Mesh doesn't care what the UV layout is.  It just takes multiple layers of textures and flattens them to one texture.  The textures just need to made for the particular UV layout of the mesh it is to be applied on.  All the current textures and skins made for all the custom mesh heads have already been uploaded and it is just up to the skin designers to use those same textures and make system skins.

Basically the steps for a skin designer to update to Bakes On Mesh is right mouse click in their inventory and choose "New Body Part < New Skin".  Then wear the skin and edit it.  Then just drop the correct textures, they already have and been using to create appliers, into the 3 slots "Head, Upper Body and Lower Body".  Then name the system skin in such a way so that the customer will easily be able to understand which custom head it is supposed to be used with.  The whole process only take about two minutes.

Hope that clears things up. :)
Cathy

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13 minutes ago, Cathy Foil said:

The reason Bakes On Mesh works better with all custom mesh bodies is because the custom mesh body designers all use the LL Default avatar UVs. 

Just because they all use the same UV does not mean that they all line up exactly the same on that UV. Anyone who makes detailed skins for mesh bodies knows that they do not and certain adjustments must be made. It is the same with mesh heads. Using the same UV does not mean the eyes are all going to be in exactly the same position or that the eye shape is the same. There is just no one size fits all where mesh bodies and heads are concerned. Sure we can get pretty close and for some it might be passable to use one skin and expect it to look okay on all bodies and heads but for the most part it's just not going to look nearly as good as a skin made specifically to that body or head even though yes, they all use the same UV.

Another really big issue is that old system skins will not work with the hands and feet of mesh bodies. The nails are painted on old system skins. So while you certainly will be able to use an old system skin on a mesh body you are going to have to find a way to cover the toes and fingers to make those skins look okay. As someone who works with people using the Maitreya mesh body, I see this issue all the time where someone has taken a UUID from an old skin and made an Omega applier and comes into chat wanting to know why their feet look bad. So please keep that in mind when giving information about using old skins with mesh bodies.

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9 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

Just because they all use the same UV does not mean that they all line up exactly the same on that UV. Anyone who makes detailed skins for mesh bodies knows that they do not and certain adjustments must be made. It is the same with mesh heads. Using the same UV does not mean the eyes are all going to be in exactly the same position or that the eye shape is the same. There is just no one size fits all where mesh bodies and heads are concerned. Sure we can get pretty close and for some it might be passable to use one skin and expect it to look okay on all bodies and heads but for the most part it's just not going to look nearly as good as a skin made specifically to that body or head even though yes, they all use the same UV.

Another really big issue is that old system skins will not work with the hands and feet of mesh bodies. The nails are painted on old system skins. So while you certainly will be able to use an old system skin on a mesh body you are going to have to find a way to cover the toes and fingers to make those skins look okay. As someone who works with people using the Maitreya mesh body, I see this issue all the time where someone has taken a UUID from an old skin and made an Omega applier and comes into chat wanting to know why their feet look bad. So please keep that in mind when giving information about using old skins with mesh bodies.

You are right I should have said from what people have told me mesh body designers seem to use UVs that more closely match the UV layout and positions of the LL Default avatar UVs than many custom mesh heads.  This is why mesh bodies seem to have less distortion of skins made for the LL Default Avatar.

Your first sentence however is wrong. "Just because they all use the same UV does not mean that they all line up exactly the same on that UV."  Two different meshes using the same UVs as in their UVs match up perfectly the textures will line up exactly the same.  What I think you probably meant was two different meshes using very similar but not identical UVs textures will not line up exactly.

It all depends on the mesh body designers and mesh head designers as to how well their UVs match LL's UVs.  It is not impossible for them to match up perfectly their UVs to LL's UVs.  It may take weeks worth of effort to match but not impossible.

Again those designers wishing to give their customers the widest range of wearable skins and also make things easier on skin designers will be the ones matching their UVs perfectly to LL's UVs and they will have a big advantage over mesh body and head creators who do not.

"Another really big issue is that old system skins will not work with the hands and feet of mesh bodies. "   System gloves can be worn to cover up and replace old skin's hands, feet and fingernails.  A mesh body or hand creator could provide a texture that is almost completely white except for a few grey shaded areas were things like finger, palm and knuckles creases are.  Then the customer can simply edit the gloves while wearing them and adjust the tint to match the skin.  It is not that hard I have done it.  It only takes about 5 minutes.  You can even wear a second pair of system gloves to texture fingernails color and or tint them.  So please keep in mind there are solutions for everything you brought up.

Will old skins work well on every mesh body or mesh head?  No.  How well they work depends entirely on how closely their creator's UVs match LL's UVs.  Many if not all custom mesh bodies and heads are using modified LL UVs.  Some are closer to LL's UVs than others.  In the future I am betting they are going to make more of an effort to match more closely LL's UVs at least the smart ones will.


 

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3 hours ago, Cathy Foil said:

Will old skins work well on every mesh body or mesh head?  No.  How well they work depends entirely on how closely their creator's UVs match LL's UVs.  Many if not all custom mesh bodies and heads are using modified LL UVs.  Some are closer to LL's UVs than others.  In the future I am betting they are going to make more of an effort to match more closely LL's UVs at least the smart ones will.

This is not strictly correct. The default body and head have fewer defined points than the typical mesh body or head so the "LL" UV map leaves certain structures undefined. For instance, the navel - the default body doesn't have a clearly defined navel so you can't criticize a mesh body or skin maker for not following a "standard" navel location because there's really no such thing. Same goes for lip borders, etc.

Ultimately, for skins made in the future UV's should be standardized on a more modern variation of the "LL-style" UV map. The logical one would be the Omega UV map. However, it would be perfectly possible for new mesh bodies to also use structure locations from, say, Maitreya or That Cat Company because layout isn't copyrightable.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Cathy Foil said:

Your first sentence however is wrong. "Just because they all use the same UV does not mean that they all line up exactly the same on that UV."  Two different meshes using the same UVs as in their UVs match up perfectly the textures will line up exactly the same.  What I think you probably meant was two different meshes using very similar but not identical UVs textures will not line up exactly.

What I meant is that for instance the Maitreya body and the Slink body both use the standard SLUV for their mesh bodies. Yet, when I make seamed stockings for those bodies I have to create a different texture for each because the ankles do not match up exactly the same and therefore the seams will not match up unless I purposely match the seam on each body independently. This is why I don't make seamed stockings using an Omega applier. I will note that the Maitreya matches more closely at the ankle join to the classic body and I can actually use the same texture for Maitreya and the classic. I can't say that for any other mesh body.

I can't imagine what it would entail for all mesh body creators to magically stretch the UV over their mesh objects so that everyone of them matched exactly the same using the SLUV. Perhaps you are that magician, but in my experience of trying to make seamed stockings with perfectly matched seams at the ankle join has proven to me that it does not exist currently.

Edited by Blush Bravin
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Posted (edited)

To me slink hourglass was the one that worked for me with baked on mesh but lara body did not work I know their are glitches but if people can get it to work that is a plus I know they are working  hard but thankful that we can do this. But I really love how she looks in this gown even tho its vintage. I know some people will not be able to see unless they are on the same viewer host  could tell  me you to change unless place allows the baked on mesh  or just go to small places wearing it for now. Wearing The Gown *NR* Divine Sisi Grandeur Red by Nicky Ree. Had  to taker off  (Divine SiSi Long Skirt2 Red) May work with other mesh bodys like lara Etc.  But the classic baked on mesh skin seems to match in diffren't lighting to match up right to the head.

 

skill.png

bakedgirl.png

Edited by Vanoralynna
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On 4/4/2019 at 10:50 PM, Cathy Foil said:

Just wanted to clear up the mesh head issues.  The problems you are seeing are the result of the mesh head designer deciding to use UVs that are different than the LL Default avatar head UVs.  If you wear a skin that was designed to use the LL Default avatar head UVs on a custom mesh head that is using different UV layout the skin will not look right.  It is not being caused by Bakes On Mesh.

The reason Bakes On Mesh works better with all custom mesh bodies is because the custom mesh body designers all use the LL Default avatar UVs.  A number of mesh head designers are using their own modified version of the LL Default avatar head UVs.  Skin designers wishing to make skins for these heads have to make their textures to fit the UV layout of the particular head.  This means they have to upload a separate textures they custom make to fit each head designer's heads.

So what is the solution?  Each skin designer that is making skins now and currently using appliers will have to make a system skin using the same textures they already are using with the appliers.  Then they just have to name the skin with the name of the mesh head that skin is supposed to work with.  So as the customer when you buy their skin you will receive multiple skins made for specific heads.

Now it would be smart of those custom mesh head designers to provide two heads to their customers.  One with their own custom or modified UVs and one that has the LL Default avatar head UVs.  They both can use Bakes On Mesh but the head using the LL Default avatar head UVs will be able to use any skin textures made for the LL Default avatar and also make it a lot less work for skin designers as they can merely create one skin instead of having to make multiple versions for multiple heads not using the LL Default avatar head UVs.  Of course it is totally up to the custom mesh head designers if they want to provide two heads or not.

I think that those mesh heads that don't at least provide a mesh head using the LL Default avatar head UVs will loose out and sale will drop.

The thing to remember is Bakes On Mesh doesn't care what the UV layout is.  It just takes multiple layers of textures and flattens them to one texture.  The textures just need to made for the particular UV layout of the mesh it is to be applied on.  All the current textures and skins made for all the custom mesh heads have already been uploaded and it is just up to the skin designers to use those same textures and make system skins.

Basically the steps for a skin designer to update to Bakes On Mesh is right mouse click in their inventory and choose "New Body Part < New Skin".  Then wear the skin and edit it.  Then just drop the correct textures, they already have and been using to create appliers, into the 3 slots "Head, Upper Body and Lower Body".  Then name the system skin in such a way so that the customer will easily be able to understand which custom head it is supposed to be used with.  The whole process only take about two minutes.

Hope that clears things up. :)
Cathy

This is why I have keep an head with the sl uvmap references, and everybody is able to use also old skins on that. Since now.

 

But how to use the left and right arm "layers"?

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Just a question for the experts:

we have now left and right arm "layers" but where you can configure them?

On body, you can't.

On layers, you can't.

It is to be done on a full moon night with a special dance or.. what?

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1 hour ago, Ramses Meredith said:

Just a question for the experts:

we have now left and right arm "layers" but where you can configure them?

On body, you can't.

On layers, you can't.

It is to be done on a full moon night with a special dance or.. what?

There's no dedicated "right arm" bake - with the standard avatar the right arm is included in the upper body texture and the same texture is mirrored for the left arm; similar for the left foot.

They've added new "channels" to allow a separate bake for the left arm and left foot. They'll never show up on the default avatar.

You'll need to configure a part of the body to use the left bakes, and currently the only wearables that can be used are the new "Universal" wearables. They're not really that useful yet - for instance, the texture of a standard skin won't appear in the left arm and left foot bakes.

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Posted (edited)

Baked on  mesh is working the some mesh body may need the that flat on the body so its not going through sticking out  I know slink made chest that was smaller to make smaller may have to be fixed for baked on mesh. Have slink hourglass on has to reshape the body to fit in the dress.

nipple hide.png

Edited by Vanoralynna

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13 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

There's no dedicated "right arm" bake - with the standard avatar the right arm is included in the upper body texture and the same texture is mirrored for the left arm; similar for the left foot.

They've added new "channels" to allow a separate bake for the left arm and left foot. They'll never show up on the default avatar.

You'll need to configure a part of the body to use the left bakes, and currently the only wearables that can be used are the new "Universal" wearables. They're not really that useful yet - for instance, the texture of a standard skin won't appear in the left arm and left foot bakes.

Thank you so much. This mean i were doing all right hehe. Pity they not yet  worked on it, since with normal mesh avatars you can choose, I talk about exmachina davide, I do not know if the others does too, you can apply left or right arm tattoo without problems, also on skin to be honest. This make avatara a bit more realistic, I think.

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13 hours ago, Vanoralynna said:

Baked on  mesh is working the some mesh body may need the that flat on the body so its not going through sticking out  I know slink made chest that was smaller to make smaller may have to be fixed for baked on mesh. Have slink hourglass on has to reshape the body to fit in the dress.

nipple hide.png

you must create an alpha layer to hide those parts since now the old system with alpha cuts on mesh is a bit useless

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Posted (edited)

So, what about those of us with avatar bodies that aren't using the SL body template?

Are we just kind of stuck with the 'onions', or having to find some complicated work around to even make use of this? 😩

------------------------------

After a bit of testin, seems like making use of the Hair and Skirt as the source could be a possible way to use em for non standard UV bodied avatars.

Edited by Digit Gears

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29 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:

So, what about those of us with avatar bodies that aren't using the SL body template?

Are we just kind of stuck with the 'onions', or having to find some complicated work around to even make use of this? 😩

------------------------------

After a bit of testin, seems like making use of the Hair and Skirt as the source could be a possible way to use em for non standard UV bodied avatars.

It depends on the number of "channels" a complete bake of that avatar would require. In addition to the "Hair" and "Skirt" channels, there are the two new "left arm/left foot" channels and three new "auxiliary" channels. It would mean that anything made for those avatars would need to use the new "universal" wearable type, but the actual UV layout wouldn't be an issue.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

It depends on the number of "channels" a complete bake of that avatar would require. In addition to the "Hair" and "Skirt" channels, there are the two new "left arm/left foot" channels and three new "auxiliary" channels. It would mean that anything made for those avatars would need to use the new "universal" wearable type, but the actual UV layout wouldn't be an issue.

Well, I suppose the aux stuff will be handy for non standard bodies then,  though toggling on the BoM thing seems to treat the mesh like it's got a PNG texture on it, making it default to Alpha Blend, and had to fight against it a bit to get it to stay on none, but that might of just been a bit of lag and clicking about too much to quickly.

Edited by Digit Gears

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Digit Gears said:

So, what about those of us with avatar bodies that aren't using the SL body template?

Are we just kind of stuck with the 'onions', or having to find some complicated work around to even make use of this? 😩

------------------------------

After a bit of testin, seems like making use of the Hair and Skirt as the source could be a possible way to use em for non standard UV bodied avatars.

Nothing is stopping you from using the main body slots normally used for LL UVs to bake textures compatible with your custom mesh body instead.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Nothing is stopping you from using the main body slots normally used for LL UVs to bake textures compatible with your custom mesh body instead.

I suppose that is true!

---------------------------------------
The future of furry avatars is gonna get wild 👀

f76bf30c40c3207754b3c96c781b6bd8.gif

Edited by Digit Gears
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Posted (edited)

One downside of this stuff though is, there's only so many slots on the body to attach stuff to, Lower, Upper, Head, Hair, and Eyes. My avatar I been working on would need 6 slots to be fully linked up to it, the whole body itself, head, ears, tail, eyes, and the mane.

The two oddballs out for me atm is the ears and tail, and the only free slot I got left is the lower body. I know there's the auxiliary slots, but I don't wanna hog up too many for just the base avatar.

 

I know it's in the release candidate phase now, but it would be nice if it was possible to add in some "aux" slots in the skin itself for misc stuff someone might want to be apart of a base avatar.

Edited by Digit Gears

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1 hour ago, Digit Gears said:

One downside of this stuff though is, there's only so many slots on the body to attach stuff to, Lower, Upper, Head, Hair, and Eyes. My avatar I been working on would need 6 slots to be fully linked up to it, the whole body itself, head, ears, tail, eyes, and the mane.

The two oddballs out for me atm is the ears and tail, and the only free slot I got left is the lower body. I know there's the auxiliary slots, but I don't wanna hog up too many for just the base avatar.

 

I know it's in the release candidate phase now, but it would be nice if it was possible to add in some "aux" slots in the skin itself for misc stuff someone might want to be apart of a base avatar.

Are you making this avatar and laying out the UV map yourself? All of the body slots are 1024 x 1024 - you should be able to use the same channel the ears and tail with a texture that big.

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2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Are you making this avatar and laying out the UV map yourself? All of the body slots are 1024 x 1024 - you should be able to use the same channel the ears and tail with a texture that big.

Well, already did the UV and textures before hand, I made em have different UV's so they can be used with other stuff if people wanted to. But I suppose that is an option if I really wanted to

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On 4/15/2019 at 4:24 AM, Digit Gears said:

I suppose that is true!

---------------------------------------
The future of furry avatars is gonna get wild 👀

f76bf30c40c3207754b3c96c781b6bd8.gif

Rawr

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On 5/5/2019 at 5:55 PM, Cissy March said:

when will it finally come?

BoM is in the Release Candidate stage, meaning the versions of BoM in development right now are feature complete and with the exception of a few bugs, ready to be pushed (added) to the main grid. Once the last of the big kinks are sorted, We *should* see a release announcement at the end of May if not sometime in June if there are no major problems with the RC.

However, It'll take longer for TPVs to add this code to their viewers, probably at least 2 weeks.

Edited by Rathgrith027
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