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Alexa Linden

Bakes on Mesh Feedback Thread

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11 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

So instead of just wearing a mesh head and mesh bento fingers I am forced to wear a mesh body for that little bit or neck or I can use no BoM? Was that what you all hoped for? Making folks wear complexity bombs when not needed?

 

You can use Bakes-on-Mesh for the head just fine. The standard neck joint of every popular human mesh head and body is at the line between the head and upper textures. You can apply the head texture of the avatar bake to the mesh head and the body bake to the default body. You'll need to use appliers for the hands if you want the default body to wear the upper body texture.

15 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Nothing, I just think the hopes put into it are overrated. Why do you take everything I find bad in it as a personal offense?

I don't take it as a personal offense; I take it as an offense to logic and the truth, which I take far more seriously.

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On 9/14/2018 at 11:19 PM, Fionalein said:

So instead of just wearing a mesh head and mesh bento fingers I am forced to wear a mesh body for that little bit or neck or I can use no BoM? Was that what you all hoped for? Making folks wear complexity bombs when not needed?

If your partial mesh covers, for example, the hands and forearms and not the rest of the torso, they only need to use one of the three "aux" textures. That way your system body will stay visible and you can wear your alpha layer to hide the partial bits.

Besides, our limits have been expanded. Even if you still had to wear a full mesh body (or just an upper body), it would be no worse than what we already had while still giving us something new and otherwise useful.

You can always find faults or areas of improvement even in a flawless feature and I agree that BOM is not the savior of SL because it still has to be implemented by the same users we've been dealing with regarding mesh itself, but BOM is definitely a good thing for SL due to how many more potential options it provides for creativity (regardless of if you're a creator or not).

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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On 9/14/2018 at 11:16 AM, Fionalein said:

Sillly question: How will the BoM then work with partial mesh bodies? Wait let me guess: It's a useless piece of junk that cannot deal with those?

I know this question has been brought up by others and answered but I thought I reply anyway to expand understanding.

BoM can certainly work with partial mesh bodies.  By using the Baked Aux channels you can replace any part of the body on the default avatar mesh but also on any part of custom mesh bodies that are using the BoM system.  You just are not seeing the full potential of BoM.

To replace the hands on either the default LL avatars or a custom mesh avatar like SLink bodies, assuming they are using Bom,  the mesh hands you want to wear just need to use one of the Baked Aux channels and then you just wear a simple Alpha created by they mesh hand creator.  As long as you know the UV layout of the mesh body you could make your own alpha if one was not provided.  There is no need for a custom mesh body to even have an alpha cuts or hud to hide parts of the body.

Here is another example to show just how versatile BoM can make custom mesh bodies and body parts.  BoM can be used to replace parts on custom mesh bodies as well.  Take a custom mesh head for example.  Just as there are Dev Kits for mesh bodies a Dev Kit could be made by custom mesh head designers.  Other designers could create new lips,  noses, ears, cheekbones, chins you name it to replace those parts on the original mesh head without having to make the whole head.

To the average buyer they just wear the original mesh head, then an alpha and then the new replacement lips or nose or ears or whatever.  The original mesh head designer is happy because people have to buy their head as a base and customers are happy because they can buy new lips and noses and so forth to really have fun customizing their heads.  Think of these in the same way you think of mesh clothes for custom mesh bodies.  They are add-ons something to enhance your avatar.  It is a win win win.  All this without really making it any harder for the customer.  All they do is just right mouse click on the head, add-on and alpha in their inventory and select wear.

Will mesh head designers make Dev Kits available?  Maybe or maybe not but the potential is there.

Edited by Cathy Foil

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Been out of BOM for several weeks.
It has been already confirmed if the werable alphas will work on release? Or it's something they will work "over time"? Last time I tried, they didn't work.
Also, it's still being 512px? Will be 1024px on release or also something to work over time?

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1 hour ago, Kitsune Shan said:

Been out of BOM for several weeks.
It has been already confirmed if the werable alphas will work on release? Or it's something they will work "over time"? Last time I tried, they didn't work.
Also, it's still being 512px? Will be 1024px on release or also something to work over time?

Wearable alphas work if the mesh they're being applied to is set to alpha masking with a cutoff greater than 0.

Bakes are already at 1024 on the Beta grid.

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1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Wearable alphas work if the mesh they're being applied to is set to alpha masking with a cutoff greater than 0.

Bakes are already at 1024 on the Beta grid.

Ohh, all that already working? That's some great news. Thanks for the info :)

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How I wish LL has this ready before Halloween. The one tattoo layer on my Lelutka head is annoying during this time of the year. To add on scars, blood and whatever else as old layers would be awesome.

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Hijacking the feedback thread for a quick question:

If an applier I have contains system tattoo versions as well as Omega or body/head specific applier HUDs, as a general rule, which should I be using when BoM goes live? Is there (typically) a difference?

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26 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Hijacking the feedback thread for a quick question:

If an applier I have contains system tattoo versions as well as Omega or body/head specific applier HUDs, as a general rule, which should I be using when BoM goes live? Is there (typically) a difference?

Do you need materials or normal map? Applier, else BOM. Is your skin only available as applier? Well goodbye BOM then.

Edited by Fionalein
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2 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Do you need materials or normal map? Applier, else BOM. Is your skin only available as applier? Well goodbye BOM then.

Thanks for you answer; it made me realise that my (admittedly very superficial) understanding of BoM was badly wrong. Time to actually read through this mess and try things out; although I'm already pretty sure BoM will not fix my layer problem.

Edit: Okay I've read every single post in this thread and I lost a little more faith in humanity. 

Edited by AyelaNewLife
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4 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Hijacking the feedback thread for a quick question:

If an applier I have contains system tattoo versions as well as Omega or body/head specific applier HUDs, as a general rule, which should I be using when BoM goes live? Is there (typically) a difference?

If you use appliers, you'll only be able to have that one specific texture on at a time. (on the same surface, anyway..)

With BoM, you can wear as many clothing layers as you want, and they will all be combined into a single texture for your BoM body.
Skin, multiple different tattoos, clothing layers (underwear, top layer), and everything else will be compatible.

We will see how many creators adopt this new feature.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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3 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

If you use appliers, you'll only be able to have that one specific texture on at a time. (on the same surface, anyway..)

With BoM, you can wear as many clothing layers as you want, and they will all be combined into a single texture for your BoM body.
Skin, multiple different tattoos, clothing layers (underwear, top layer), and everything else will be compatible.

We will see how many creators adopt this new feature.

I thought of the question while doing a sort-through of my appliers folder earlier, but was based on some incorrect assumptions as to how BoM functioned. I've now highlighted the appliers with system tattoo versions, to make things easier when this goes live.

I'm not exactly confident in Maitreya providing a BoM-compatible version of the body, given that they still don't provide a tattoo onion layer for the hands or feet, just a single glove/sock layer with all the wonderful alpha overlap glitches that comes with it; but there's no point in speculating. I'll just keep everything I need to in order to be future-proof, and wait until the dust settles :)

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4 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

I thought of the question while doing a sort-through of my appliers folder earlier, but was based on some incorrect assumptions as to how BoM functioned. I've now highlighted the appliers with system tattoo versions, to make things easier when this goes live.

I'm not exactly confident in Maitreya providing a BoM-compatible version of the body, given that they still don't provide a tattoo onion layer for the hands or feet, just a single glove/sock layer with all the wonderful alpha overlap glitches that comes with it; but there's no point in speculating. I'll just keep everything I need to in order to be future-proof, and wait until the dust settles :)

The BoM functionality comes in the form of simple texture UUIDs. Omega Solutions has already made an "applier" that sets any Omega-compatible body to use BoM textures, and it worked fine with the project viewer. You can get it from their in-world store as a freebie. There's no need for creators to make a new body, they only need to provide their textures as the new Universal Layer inventory item (which will allow 1024x1024 resolution layers for BoM).

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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25 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

The BoM functionality comes in the form of simple texture UUIDs. Omega Solutions has already made an "applier" that sets any Omega-compatible body to use BoM textures, and it worked fine with the project viewer. You can get it from their in-world store as a freebie. There's no need for creators to make a new body, they only need to provide their textures as the new Universal Layer inventory item (which will allow 1024x1024 resolution layers for BoM).

Maitreya still uses same texture for both arms despite omega advanced allowing for seperate arms - what makes you believe features as the assymmetrical BOM tattoos would suddenly become supported?

Edited by Fionalein

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11 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Maitreya still uses same texture for both arms despite omega advanced allowing for seperate arms - what makes you believe features as the assymmetrical BOM tattoos would suddenly become supported?

I don't.

Edit: Wait, I missed that part about Omega. If the Omega appliers can apply textures asymmetrically, it can do the same with the BoM textures, applying the separate arm section on one arm. In that case yes of course BoM tattoos are already possible with no updates required to the body. 

What made you think that they aren't possible?

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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10 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

I thought of the question while doing a sort-through of my appliers folder earlier, but was based on some incorrect assumptions as to how BoM functioned. I've now highlighted the appliers with system tattoo versions, to make things easier when this goes live.

I'm not exactly confident in Maitreya providing a BoM-compatible version of the body, given that they still don't provide a tattoo onion layer for the hands or feet, just a single glove/sock layer with all the wonderful alpha overlap glitches that comes with it; but there's no point in speculating. I'll just keep everything I need to in order to be future-proof, and wait until the dust settles :)

The best thing about BoM, is that the alpha sorting issue is gone for all that you wear directly on the body. When you wear an applier with alpha now, let us say a tattoo, and you have long hair hanging down? The alpha sorting issue makes the tattoo disappear under the hair and a big portion around. The only way to fix this now is to edit the hair, but that makes it look more coarse and fine wisps of hair suffer badly.

I have to use a skin now that has freckles directly on the skin, because there is no way I can use freckles and tattoos together. And I can not use lingerie with alpha, like lace, over tattoos (or freckles).

When we get BoM (Please LL, NOW, kthxbai) I can customize myself totally, pick a skin, any skin, add freckles. Not enough freckles? Add more from a different creator. Want my body hair to match my head hair? Wear a layer for red pubes. Want to add lines, like the ones Izzies has made, veins and cellulite? Go ahead. And tattoos. And lingerie on top of that. All on BoM. No alpha issue whatever. I can wear stockings under my dress with lace, as long as I have stockings as BoM.

Makes me drool in happiness, I tell you.

And the face. Have your eyemakeup disappeared under the lashes? No more. Not enough makeup slots? Only Catwa has enough makeup slots, not my LeLutka head, and now, I don't have to buy a head just to indulge in makeup

No need to click, click in a HUD, top eyebrows, no, the lower hairbase is not there, the bottom eyebrows? Maybe the blush layers. Having turned off the old hairbase that was on a different layer set than the new, I wear the new eyebrows... shoot, I forgot that I had the slot closed. Push the slider... wrong slot. It was the other brow slot. Wearing eyemakeup, oh no, the top of it took off the brows. Using the first brow layer and apply again.... Applying the tattoo that goes up behind the ears. It is an Omega applier and the designer took the shortcut and it applies to all slots. Starting with the makeup again, clearing slots and applying once more.

My everyday makeup is utilitarian since mesh heads, eyebrows, lipstick and sometimes eyemakeup. Sometimes only eyebrows, because I wear the same even when I change skin. I can go back to wearing layers and forget slots. Well, I will wear lipstick on an applier, because of the glossiness. And applier masks and special makeup that use materials.

 

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22 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

The best thing about BoM, is that the alpha sorting issue is gone for all that you wear directly on the body. When you wear an applier with alpha now, let us say a tattoo, and you have long hair hanging down? The alpha sorting issue makes the tattoo disappear under the hair and a big portion around. The only way to fix this now is to edit the hair, but that makes it look more coarse and fine wisps of hair suffer badly.

I have to use a skin now that has freckles directly on the skin, because there is no way I can use freckles and tattoos together. And I can not use lingerie with alpha, like lace, over tattoos (or freckles).

When we get BoM (Please LL, NOW, kthxbai) I can customize myself totally, pick a skin, any skin, add freckles. Not enough freckles? Add more from a different creator. Want my body hair to match my head hair? Wear a layer for red pubes. Want to add lines, like the ones Izzies has made, veins and cellulite? Go ahead. And tattoos. And lingerie on top of that. All on BoM. No alpha issue whatever. I can wear stockings under my dress with lace, as long as I have stockings as BoM.

Makes me drool in happiness, I tell you.

And the face. Have your eyemakeup disappeared under the lashes? No more. Not enough makeup slots? Only Catwa has enough makeup slots, not my LeLutka head, and now, I don't have to buy a head just to indulge in makeup

No need to click, click in a HUD, top eyebrows, no, the lower hairbase is not there, the bottom eyebrows? Maybe the blush layers. Having turned off the old hairbase that was on a different layer set than the new, I wear the new eyebrows... shoot, I forgot that I had the slot closed. Push the slider... wrong slot. It was the other brow slot. Wearing eyemakeup, oh no, the top of it took off the brows. Using the first brow layer and apply again.... Applying the tattoo that goes up behind the ears. It is an Omega applier and the designer took the shortcut and it applies to all slots. Starting with the makeup again, clearing slots and applying once more.

My everyday makeup is utilitarian since mesh heads, eyebrows, lipstick and sometimes eyemakeup. Sometimes only eyebrows, because I wear the same even when I change skin. I can go back to wearing layers and forget slots. Well, I will wear lipstick on an applier, because of the glossiness. And applier masks and special makeup that use materials.

Oh I've got some solid stories of my own like this. I wear a freckle tattoo layer constantly... which means my hands and feet are covered by an alpha blob of doom, 24/7. Oh well, guess I'll have to accept that... except now I need to also wear my wet/dirt layer for a picture, which means choosing between the freckles or the effects layer, oh that's no good, okay time to swap back to Slink hands, now the freckles are on my skin and the effects are on a glove layer, which means floating dirt, fantastic. Bonus points for the hand/arm join practically highlighted. And then I need to swap hairs because alpha overlap. Fun.

It's even more fun with the head. I wear a Laq head, and for those that don't know, hitting default zones on a whole-face omega applier is almost always a terrible idea with Laq. Exhibit A:

61e96f683b.png

This is the default zones that this dirt layer applies to (Lipstick, Eyeshadow, and Eyebrows too - old shot, I'd added my Eyebrows layer back on). I had something in every one of those slots, now removed, rather than using the perfectly functional tattoo layer manually. That's it; one layer covers the entire face, and instead the applier picks three layers to deliver a useless result. Which would remove my freckles tattoo layer... lesser of two evils, for sure :P . Or.... I right click add on a couple of system tattoos. Much better.

So yeah, assuming that all my appliers creators go over their lines and provide free system tattoo versions, BoM will be a help. I'd still need onion layers for stuff like the wet layer (#specularmapslivesmatter), but I'd need less, for sure. And ideally Maitreya will realise that it's no longer 2015 and having a (single) tattoo onion layer that covers the skin of the hands is actually a useful thing to have.

Edited by AyelaNewLife
I did typo
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19 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Oh I've got some solid stories of my own like this. I wear a freckle tattoo layer constantly... which means my hands and feet are covered by an alpha blob of doom, 24/7. Oh well, guess I'll have to accept that... except now I need to also wear my wet/dirt layer for a picture, which means choosing between the freckles or the effects layer, oh that's no good, okay time to swap back to Slink hands, now the freckles are on my skin and the effects are on a glove layer, which means floating dirt, fantastic. Bonus points for the hand/arm join practically highlighted. And then I need to swap hairs because alpha overlap. Fun.

It's even more fun with the head. I wear a Laq head, and for those that don't know, hitting default zones on a whole-face omega applier is almost always a terrible idea with Laq. Exhibit A:

61e96f683b.png

This is the default zones that this dirt layer applies to (Lipstick, Eyeshadow, and Eyebrows too - old shot, I'd added my Eyebrows layer back on). I had something in every one of those slots, now removed, rather than using the perfectly functional tattoo layer manually. That's it; one layer covers the entire face, and instead the applier picks three layers to deliver a useless result. Which would remove my freckles tattoo layer... lesser of two evils, for sure :P . Or.... I right click add on a couple of system tattoos. Much better.

So yeah, assuming that all my appliers creators go over their lines and provide free system tattoo versions, BoM will be a help. I'd still need onion layers for stuff like the wet layer (#specularmapslivesmatter), but I'd need less, for sure. And ideally Maitreya will realise that it's no longer 2015 and having a (single) tattoo onion layer that covers the skin of the hands is actually a useful thing to have.

Your skin layer can have the materials on it, right? You don't need an extra layer just for that.

Unrelated, but you could put material textures into the BoM auxillary slots and then apply the aux texture as a material. Combined / dynamic materials!

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42 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Your skin layer can have the materials on it, right? You don't need an extra layer just for that.

Unrelated, but you could put material textures into the BoM auxillary slots and then apply the aux texture as a material. Combined / dynamic materials!

My wet layer is more of a water-droplets layer, and it's the "shine" of those individual droplets that I'd miss without using the extra layer (I think? not sure)

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2 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

My wet layer is more of a water-droplets layer, and it's the "shine" of those individual droplets that I'd miss without using the extra layer (I think? not sure)

I understand what you mean and again, the shine can be applied onto the same mesh that has your skin on it. No need for extra mesh just for shine.

There are legitimate use-cases for an additional layer on the mesh body even post-BoM, but it's for skin-tight clothing that realistically covers small gaps between the breasts, buttocks, and crotch bits.. Or potentially some niche effects like emissive (glow in the dark) neon paint or animated textures, but that should be an alternative version of the same body (or the extra layer itself should be separate!!), not something put in the default that most are going to wear without making full use of.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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1024 x 1024 bakes are now live on the Main Grid, including for default avatars. You can see the difference with assets that were originally made with 1024 x 1024 textures.

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14 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

1024 x 1024 bakes are now live on the Main Grid, including for default avatars. You can see the difference with assets that were originally made with 1024 x 1024 textures.

Wonder if that's the cause of the recent bake/cloud issues.

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Any updates on this?
It has been two days already since I can not use my new alternate account because all I see is a red cloud!
How much longer do we wait for that solution?

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7 minutes ago, AlexandriteGem said:

Any updates on this?
It has been two days already since I can not use my new alternate account because all I see is a red cloud!
How much longer do we wait for that solution?

Have you tried manually rebaking from your viewer? I can only guess though, my accounts (4) don't have the issue. 

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator

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