Second Life is filled with petty and rude people.

[Qie Niangao]

Wading back in to the furniture example. There are many reasons folks prefer modifiable furniture, and in fact it's one product category where those market forces have been pretty effective: there are relatively fewer no-mod furniture products on sale than there used to be.

My main thing about no-mod, though, is when platform changes render effectively obsolete content that could be preserved with a few updating modifications. And for a long time, furniture aged like most SL products, just looking gradually more primitive as standards improved. What you bought was more or less what you got.

Then there were a several step-function changes in SL that left existing no-mod furniture way behind. One was mesh land-impact accounting, where some old prim furniture could be salvaged by setting physics types of linkset elements to None or Convex Hull. It's not that the no-mod furniture items lost functionality* but changing expectations left behind prematurely compared to items with mod perms.

Then the same thing happened with Materials settings. And most recently, Experience-enabled temp attachment of props. After growing accustomed to such features, older furniture seems starkly primitive, not merely quaint. An unnecessary casualty of some creator's misguided ego or superstition.

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

@Qie Niangao used furniture with animations as an example, but that was a bad/wrong example. He said that he might want to update the animations after a while but is unable to with a no-mod piece. Since the majority of the cost of such a piece IS the animations, and since you are willing to ditch what you paid for them, either buy another piece - mod with no animations - and put the new anims into to, or ask the creator to sell you a mod version with no animations. No-mod is not a problem in that circumstance.

To clarify, that's pretty much the exact opposite of my furniture example. I routinely lift animations from no-mod furniture and add them to modifiable stuff, often things that weren't animated at all before, with either my own or AVsitter scripts. At that point the no-mod items are disposable and that's fine, I only ever bought them for their animations. The problem I was describing, in contrast, is when folks bought no-mod furniture intending to keep using the shell too, not merely the anims, and that shell ages ungracefully and unnecessarily because mod permission was foolishly disabled.

___________________
* That's in contrast to vehicles that become undrivable when Havok updates. In that case, no-mod items are literally obsolete.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

9 hours ago, Penny Patton said:

OH! I did want to add one more point to this, the jelly doll feature, in its current incarnation, does not take VRAM use into account. Well it kind of does, but so marginally as to be utterly useless. So it is entirely possible to have an insanely laggy avatar with a low draw weight. For instance, a friend of mine showed up at my house one day and immediately my framerate dropped from the 30-40's down to below 20fps and I started seeing severe texture thrashing.

Luckily, at the time I was trying a test viewer with a new feature a friend of mine was working on to display VRAM use and I as able to see the visitor had nearly a full GB of textures on their avatar. They weren't even wearing all that much and had no more detail than my own avatar at the time, and yet they where using far more of my VRAM than SL is even capable of utilizing (VRAM is used by multiple programs and even just in SL alone for multiple features, so texture use should never even come close to the total amount of VRAM you have on your card). Their dray weight was only about 80k, which is reasonable (for SL). When I derendered them my FPS jumped back up and the texture thrashing ceased. This illustrates how the jelly doll feature can be useless for certain performance issues.

Luckily, my friend improved the feature quite a bit, added jelly doll functionality to it with VRAM caps, and submitted it to LL. The Lindens loved it and it's slated to arrive in the official viewer early this year. The problem then becomes that people using no-mod content will have no option to fix that content if it has exceptionally high VRAM use. It will simply be more unusable content that they've spent money on. Some such no-mod content that will be affected includes certain mesh heads which were released very recently and are very popular.

Dunno anything about jellys and VRAM use but if I have my ARC set at anything reasonable, my computer will go to sleep when I encounter a lot of avatars at one place. With my ARC set at 20,000 I can go to the busiest spot in sl and I'm just fine.

Then  I can selectively render a few avatars and still be ok.

[Madelaine McMasters]

10 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

So nice she gave us permission to go on derailing. 

Kinda kills the incentive, doesn't it?

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Wading back in to the furniture example. There are many reasons folks prefer modifiable furniture, and in fact it's one product category where those market forces have been pretty effective: there are relatively fewer no-mod furniture products on sale than there used to be.

As avatar size drifts down over time (I'm far shorter than on my first day in SL) so would I like the size of other things I own in SL. I can't do that with no-mod, as I'm reminded every time I sit at my circa 2009 dining room table, wondering how I'll ever reach the apples in the basket, each bigger than my head.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Pamela Galli]

2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

As avatar size drifts down over time (I'm far shorter than on my first day in SL) so would I like the size of other things I own in SL. I can't do that with no-mod, as I'm reminded every time I sit at my circa 2009 dining room table, wondering how I'll ever reach the apples in the basket, each bigger than my head.

OTOH how many expect to still use 9 yr  old  tech that cost $5.00, outside of SL? 

[Madelaine McMasters]

5 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

OTOH how many expect to still use 9 yr  old  tech that cost $5.00, outside of SL? 

... throws her 42 year old $1.00 hammer (one of the earliest tech inventions of the human race) at you. I'll be taking that hammer to my grave, it's the best piece of technology I've ever owned. It both gets the job done and reminds me of countless things I've built during my life with it.

(As Qie observes, market forces are working in the direction I (and apparently others) want.)

Edited January 7, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Hunter Stern]

2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

... throws her 42 year old $1.00 hammer (one of the earliest tech inventions of the human race) at you. I'll be taking that hammer to my grave, it's the best piece of technology I've ever owned. It both gets the job done and reminds me of countless things I've built during my life with it.

I'll see your 42 year old hammer, and wager my 102 year old hand me down saw is much more effective in cutting the problem off at the head

[Madelaine McMasters]

10 minutes ago, Hunter Stern said:

I'll see your 42 year old hammer, and wager my 102 year old hand me down saw is much more effective in cutting the problem off at the head

...sees your 102 year old hand me down saw and wagers her boarder's 350 year old violin. Music has charms to soothe a savage breast? And, when the stakes get high, I wager other people's stuff.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Innula Zenovka]

"This was my grandfather's axe.  He passed it on to my father, who in his turn passed it on to me.

"During that time, it has had three new handles and two new heads.

"Couldn't have happened if it were no-mod".

[Qie Niangao]

If I ever spent anything like US$5.00 on a virtual furniture item, it better last forever, play show tunes, and do back flips!

I will add, though, that the utility of mod permission depends on the user having some ability and willingness to perform modifications, and the trend there is less clear. In general, Mesh has discouraged the kind of tinkering that many of us take for granted. And in the example of resizing animated furniture, it's rarely as simple as simply adjusting the object's geometry in the editor. On the other hand, modern animation scripts have made it relatively easy for an end user to adjust where the avatars go for each animation -- but still it's not completely trivial.

[LittleMe Jewell]

I'm not going to argue the merits of mod vs no-mod - that is just like arguing politics because you'll never change anyone's mind. 

I just don't buy certain items as no-mod.  Jewelry is something that I can usually live with using an embedded resize script - but I won't pay for anything pricey if it is no-mod.  Furniture is something that I won't spend any L$ on if it is not modifiable, and ditto for houses and some landscape items.

[Pamela Galli]

15 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

If I ever spent anything like US$5.00 on a virtual furniture item, it better last forever, play show tunes, and do back flips

In 2009 a lot of people in SL paid a lot more than that. Prices overall are about half now.

[Ashlyn Voir]

6 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

Oh that wasn't passive aggressive shade, that was direct shade(it also wasn't years ago, but I digress). Your actual inquiry was answered pages ago, by lots of people. Your choice to ignore ALL of the posts that were actually kind to you, and continue to say that people are nothing but petty and rude, is bound to get you precisely what you're looking for.

I know, I know, it's just another "social experiment", right? 

Lots of people, including myself, in many posts, have offered other perspectives, even advice, which you've clearly ignored. The past is bound to continue to repeat itself, when you *admittedly choose* to ignore past mistakes. 

If you want to find kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet, and a myriad of other positive attributes one could attach to humans, people...you first have to BE that which you're looking to find. You're making a choice not to, and throwing all kinds of your own brand of shade...at everyone, for no real reason. Most folks don't take too kindly to that kind of stuff, especially here, lol. It'll almost guarantee a derailment. 

It’s assumed I haven’t been ‘kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet, and a myriad of other positive attributes one could attach to humans’ even though I have many times. I can also assume my kind are treated differently in online communities and other subcultures because we are deemed to only like one thing and stick to said stereotype, but I digress. 

And joining something outside of that stereotype we are instantly ignored or treated with disrespect even if we are trying to be ‘kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet, and a myriad of other positive attributes one could attach to humans’. But, as another poster said this thread will be closed shortly and I honestly couldn’t careless at this point, I just wanted to get this last statement out before it was as it’s the only reason I know of for why I made this post in the first place.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

16 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

It’s assumed I haven’t been ‘kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet, and a myriad of other positive attributes one could attach to humans’ even though I have many times. I can also assume my kind are treated differently in online communities and other subcultures because we are deemed to only like one thing and stick to said stereotype, but I digress. 

And joining something outside of that stereotype we are instantly ignored or treated with disrespect even if we are trying to be ‘kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet, and a myriad of other positive attributes one could attach to humans’. But, as another poster said this thread will be closed shortly and I honestly couldn’t careless at this point, I just wanted to get this last statement out before it was as it’s the only reason I know of for why I made this post in the first place.

and the OP plays the race card.

 

[Pamela Galli]

8 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

and the OP plays the race card.

 

 On the Internet nobody knows you’re a dog. Or what race/sex/ etc. you are. 

[Nalytha]

 

28 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

 I can also assume my kind are treated differently in online communities and other subcultures because we are deemed to only like one thing and stick to said stereotype, but I digress. 

And joining something outside of that stereotype we are instantly ignored or treated with disrespect even if we are trying to be ‘kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet, and a myriad of other positive attributes one could attach to humans’. But, as another poster said this thread will be closed shortly and I honestly couldn’t careless at this point, I just wanted to get this last statement out before it was as it’s the only reason I know of for why I made this post in the first place.

I don't even know what 'your kind' is. 

So your OP was dishonest. You didn't want others people's opinions at all. You just wanted to twist anything people said so that it validated your own agenda.  

[BilliJo Aldrin]

23 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

 On the Internet nobody knows you’re a dog. Or what race/sex/ etc. you are. 

except shes made it abundantly clear in previous threads that she is black and (almost?) all of her negative experiences had been a result of racism

Edited January 7, 2018 by BilliJo Aldrin
added words for clarity

[Innula Zenovka]

48 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

I can also assume my kind are treated differently in online communities

I've clearly missed something, but I'm afraid your name doesn't ring any bells for me, so I have no idea what you're talking about here.    

[Ashlyn Voir]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

and the OP plays the race card.

 

I never mentioned race though. You assumed, BilliJo Aldrin.

[Jerilynn Lemon]

 

There's this...

1 minute ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

51 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

except shes made it abundantly clear in previous threads that she is black and (almost?) all of her negative experiences had been a result of racism

I never mentioned race though. You assumed, BilliJo Aldrin.

and this....

2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

... throws her 42 year old $1.00 hammer (one of the earliest tech inventions of the human race) at you. I'll be taking that hammer to my grave, it's the best piece of technology I've ever owned. It both gets the job done and reminds me of countless things I've built during my life with it.

(As Qie observes, market forces are working in the direction I (and apparently others) want.)

Ladies, Gentlemen and kids of all ages...give it up for The Jeffersons meet This Old House!!! All within the same thread, no waiting.

[Ceka Cianci]

In before the move to merchant section..

C'mon guys,get in here if you're going, otherwise get out the way! I can't hold the door forever! \o/

Edited January 7, 2018 by Ceka Cianci

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

It’s assumed I haven’t been ‘kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet, and a myriad of other positive attributes one could attach to humans’ even though I have many times. I can also assume my kind are treated differently in online communities and other subcultures because we are deemed to only like one thing and stick to said stereotype, but I digress. 

And joining something outside of that stereotype we are instantly ignored or treated with disrespect even if we are trying to be ‘kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet, and a myriad of other positive attributes one could attach to humans’. But, as another poster said this thread will be closed shortly and I honestly couldn’t careless at this point, I just wanted to get this last statement out before it was as it’s the only reason I know of for why I made this post in the first place.

If by your kid you mean, mean folks, then yes, that kind doesn't get seen in a good light, at all, the vast majority of the time, but that's because they're mean people and have a very difficult time being anything other than that(so they attract it). If by your kind you mean something else, I'm afraid that no one here will have any inkling what you're talking about. Folks here don't behave that way, and it would do folks a heck of a lot of good to stick around for a while, as it becomes more and more obvious. "Your kind", isn't really something people around here say. In fact, people around here go out of their way to be kind, and welcoming, to the vast majority of people that grace us with their presence. Even folks that may not have done so in a kindly manner themselves, get welcomed in, forgiven for wrong doings, and generally have a relatively nice time here. The differences between them, and those that feel the way you do, is that A-they are open to changing their minds after an initial terrible snap judgment about people,  B-they don't keep up the victim playing when they've made a mistake, they learn from it and take advice from the intelligent folks around here and lastly C- they don't lump everyone here in with every negative thing they've ever encountered, because they truly *do* want their past and the way(s) they've behaved before to stay IN the past.  Do those three things, here, inworld, wherever you encounter people, and you will soon find an entire world chock full of people that WANT to be nothing but kind and nice.  You pretty much have to want to find them though, and most of your replies here and in other threads do suggest that you're not that interested in finding them. Go back and read them, from the perspective of someone else, pretend you don't even know who you are, and you may just understand why people are hesitant to believe you really are looking to change  

You still haven't addressed the fact that you have ignored every single nice thing anyone here has said, any of the kind advice offered, so it's quite doubtful you'll listen to anything anyone has to say, but at some point you're going to want to have people around you that like you, somewhere in life. So, when that time comes, think back on to these topics, and remember what's been said...be what you wan to receive back from others, and you WILL actually find what you're looking for. You may not have made any effort here to do that..but, you can always change whenever you so choose.  

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Tell you what Ashlyn, I'll send you a new friend request and we can have a fresh start.

*hugs*

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

 this thread will be closed shortly and I honestly couldn’t careless at this point, I just wanted to get this last statement out

(emphasis mine)

1 hour ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

 <next post>

 

1 hour ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

  <next post>

And .....

 

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

It’s assumed I haven’t been ‘kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet, and a myriad of other positive attributes one could attach to humans’ even though I have many times. I can also assume my kind are treated differently in online communities and other subcultures because we are deemed to only like one thing and stick to said stereotype, but I digress.

I make no assumptions, I work from observation. You're making the assumption that you are kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet and a myriad of other things. You may well be, but that's for other people to decide. The best you can do is attempt to be those things, observe the resulting reactions, and change course as necessary.

As others have said, I have no way of knowing what "kind" of human you are, other than through your behavior. It is both fair and necessary to a well functioning society for people to discriminate on the basis of behavior.