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Well this thread took a couple turns only to fall off the tracks in the end. I'm happy to see that some of the conversations were educational and helpful. I'm also extremely happy to see how well the

I would hazard a rough guess that - in my ten and a half years in Second Life - I have encountered a total of maybe twenty or thirty people whom I would consider as "rude for absolutely no reason". By

Even on platforms out of Second Life such as Flickr where a large number of Second Life residents share, I haven’t encountered one decent person as many seem fixated on being rude for absolutely no re

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3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Ah, sorry, that was my fault. When I suggested they stop polluting SL with their no-mod "creations" they seemed a little triggered. Such snowflakes.

(I'm not even really joking. One way to drive me to mouth-frothing rudeness is the plague of no-mod content -- especially mesh clothing, thoroughly obsolete now that auto-alpha is standard for mesh avatars. And don't even get me started on no-mod vehicles.)

If you don’t buy what you don’t want, doesn’t that avoid the problem? 

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21 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:
22 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well it looks to me like she had some bad experiences with SL....and that she came to a different space to get some support regarding it. So far I don't think she's accused the forum of being mean.

I should have been more explicit -- by "here", I meant SL.  

The OP has been in SL for 10 years and in all that time, she claims to have not encountered "one decent person".  If that is her true feelings, then I'm curious as to why she is still in SL.

 

IMO, the OP is actually just making extreme statements, but by doing so, the OP is blocking herself from seeing any positive.  

Ohh...I'm sorry...I don't think I had a very good grasp of the issues when I responded...

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One thing I did in the past was to keep two note cards in SL, writing down positive experiences in one and negative in the other. There was always far, far more positive....but if I try to think back and determine the reality I usually remember the most negative ones!

I remember a study some years back that theorized our minds more easily remember the difficult or painful experiences so that we're less likely to repeat them in the future.

So just a suggestion Ashlyn.....it really helped me.

 

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11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

One thing I did in the past was to keep two note cards in SL, writing down positive experiences in one and negative in the other. There was always far, far more positive....but if I try to think back and determine the reality I usually remember the most negative ones!

I remember a study some years back that theorized our minds more easily remember the difficult or painful experiences so that we're less likely to repeat them in the future.

So just a suggestion Ashlyn.....it really helped me.

 

Unless people are being nostalgic..Then it's always the good old days.

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18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

One thing I did in the past was to keep two note cards in SL, writing down positive experiences in one and negative in the other. There was always far, far more positive....but if I try to think back and determine the reality I usually remember the most negative ones!

I remember a study some years back that theorized our minds more easily remember the difficult or painful experiences so that we're less likely to repeat them in the future.

So just a suggestion Ashlyn.....it really helped me.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, Luna, but if I could think seriously for a moment the negative outweigh the positive. 

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27 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I remember a study some years back that theorized our minds more easily remember the difficult or painful experiences so that we're less likely to repeat them in the future.

It's more complex than that, or no woman would have a second child, and those of us who learn by observation wouldn't have a first. ;-).

Memories of pain can protect, paralyze or prime us. If you're excessively prone to remember pain, you're also excessively prone to perceive it.

I wear rose colored glasses not so much to forget pain, but to prime me for new experiences. I trust that any pain I encounter as a result will be quickly forgotten. I did not come by this way of thinking through hard work, nor has my way of thinking been severely challenged (or if it has, I've forgotten ;-). This is just the way I am, so I can't really offer instruction on how to do it, though there shelves at the bookstore filled with attempts.

Happiness is about expectation and gratitude. I don't expect life to give me more than I give it, and I'm grateful for what I get. I've lived a charmed life and have much to be grateful for, yet I see people around me who have much more and are still unhappy. You'll never catch me complaining about how the world treats me. It has no obligation to make me happy. That's my job.

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2 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

If you don’t buy what you don’t want, doesn’t that avoid the problem? 

Perhaps in theory, but in some product categories it can be very difficult to find products that haven't been reduced to no-mod junk. And many SL buyers simply aren't aware that a no-mod item is dead certain to become junk, sooner or later, if it isn't already.

The vehicle thing, for example, is a silly superstition that's become almost standard practice for SL vehicles -- and causes them to become obsolete whenever the physics engine is updated. Granted, that hasn't happened recently -- so we must be about due for another mass vehicle extinction event. (Personally, I've never used a vehicle I didn't need to re-script myself, but that's more the usual "don't buy no-mod junk" because you know it will be junk from the very start.)

For clothing, it didn't matter so much back before Mesh, but now all no-mod mesh clothing became obsolete overnight because they're unable to activate all the different auto-hide functions of mesh avatars. (The partial work-around, a per-outfit auto-alpha-activating-attachment, is almost as awful as the old practice of cluttering inventory with a separate avatar copy for each outfit, and is unsatisfactory anyway, unable to operate on the per-clothing-item basis for which the auto-alpha feature is most valuable.)

Much the same thing happened with many types of no-mod content when Materials were introduced. Sure, we could continue wearing the same attachments and using the same objects as before, but as time passed they looked progressively worse compared to everything newer that took advantage of the feature, whereas modifiable content was easily updated to at least look respectable rather than a perpetual embarrassment to its creator.

TLDR: No-mod forever dooms content to being obsoleted as the platform advances, and in unplanned ways that cannot be known to the buyer.

[EDIT: I have many more examples but one that needs mentioning: no-mod furniture precludes updating or replacing the animation engine scripting. This got to be a huge deal when Experiences enabled seamless auto-attach, and now I feel like a caveman if I have to be explicitly asked each time a prop wants to attach. Thankfully furniture is only very rarely no-mod anymore, but any that I own has been trashed, the anims salvaged into other, modifiable products.]

Edited by Qie Niangao
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42 minutes ago, Snugs McMasters said:

It's more complex than that, or no woman would have a second child, and those of us who learn by observation wouldn't have a first. ;-).

 

I always said that I was pretty sure the pain of childbirth was the worst pain that I'd every experienced, and the one most quickly forgotten.

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14 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Perhaps in theory, but in some product categories it can be very difficult to find products that haven't been reduced to no-mod junk. And many SL buyers simply aren't aware that a no-mod item is dead certain to become junk, sooner or later, if it isn't already.

The vehicle thing, for example, is a silly superstition that's become almost standard practice for SL vehicles -- and causes them to become obsolete whenever the physics engine is updated. Granted, that hasn't happened recently -- so we must be about due for another mass vehicle extinction event. (Personally, I've never used a vehicle I didn't need to re-script myself, but that's more the usual "don't buy no-mod junk" because you know it will be junk from the very start.)

For clothing, it didn't matter so much back before Mesh, but now all no-mod mesh clothing became obsolete overnight because they're unable to activate all the different auto-hide functions of mesh avatars. (The partial work-around, a per-outfit auto-alpha-activating-attachment, is almost as awful as the old practice of cluttering inventory with a separate avatar copy for each outfit, and is unsatisfactory anyway, unable to operate on the per-clothing-item basis for which the auto-alpha feature is most valuable.)

Much the same thing happened with many types of no-mod content when Materials were introduced. Sure, we could continue wearing the same attachments and using the same objects as before, but as time passed they looked progressively worse compared to everything newer that took advantage of the feature, whereas modifiable content was easily updated to at least look respectable rather than a perpetual embarrassment to its creator.

TLDR: No-mod forever dooms content to being obsoleted as the platform advances, and in unplanned ways that cannot be known to the buyer.

[EDIT: I have many more examples but one that needs mentioning: no-mod furniture precludes updating or replacing the animation engine scripting. This got to be a huge deal when Experiences enabled seamless auto-attach, and now I feel like a caveman if I have to be explicitly asked each time a prop wants to attach. Thankfully furniture is only very rarely no-mod anymore, but any that I own has been trashed, the anims salvaged into other, modifiable products.]

Those are all reasons not to buy no mod things. But not buying still avoids the problem. 

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1 hour ago, Snugs McMasters said:
2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I remember a study some years back that theorized our minds more easily remember the difficult or painful experiences so that we're less likely to repeat them in the future.

It's more complex than that, or no woman would have a second child, and those of us who learn by observation wouldn't have a first. ;-).

Memories of pain can protect, paralyze or prime us. If you're excessively prone to remember pain, you're also excessively prone to perceive it.

I wear rose colored glasses not so much to forget pain, but to prime me for new experiences. I trust that any pain I encounter as a result will be quickly forgotten. I did not come by this way of thinking through hard work, nor has my way of thinking been severely challenged (or if it has, I've forgotten ;-). This is just the way I am, so I can't really offer instruction on how to do it, though there shelves at the bookstore filled with attempts.

Happiness is about expectation and gratitude. I don't expect life to give me more than I give it, and I'm grateful for what I get. I've lived a charmed life and have much to be grateful for, yet I see people around me who have much more and are still unhappy. You'll never catch me complaining about how the world treats me. It has no obligation to make me happy. That's my job.

I don't think one example (childbirth) where pain is forgotten should be extrapolated to all experiences of pain/pleasure. There may be unique conditions that occur with childbirth since the reproductive process is important for survival to say the least, and our mind would likely do some pretty good tricks to keep that going.
But current studies are saying that painful experiences force a greater imprint on the brain mainly due to the intensity of them, among other reasons:
http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1817329,00.html
Who knows for sure...in 10 years social scientists may decide something else is true.

Anyway, I totally agree with your thinking on the 'half glass full vs half glass empty' type of coping mechanisms, and I'm glad you are able to do that. I try to do the same. The book on my nightstand for years has been the book Simple Abundance'. And when I get down I 'remember love' and suddenly the world looks different. Through the years I've experienced that if I want to be happy it's my responsibility to make myself so. I try to abide by the motto "it's not the experience that makes us unhappy, but how we react to it".
This seems to prove there is at least the possibility of overcoming the deeper imprints pain makes (if those theories are even true).

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2 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:
2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

One thing I did in the past was to keep two note cards in SL, writing down positive experiences in one and negative in the other. There was always far, far more positive....but if I try to think back and determine the reality I usually remember the most negative ones!

I remember a study some years back that theorized our minds more easily remember the difficult or painful experiences so that we're less likely to repeat them in the future.

So just a suggestion Ashlyn.....it really helped me.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, Luna, but if I could think seriously for a moment the negative outweigh the positive.

I don't know how old you are, or what stage you are at in your life, so I can't say where you 'should' be at right now. But I'm happy you're at least acknowledging SL has not been ALL bad since you are now saying there has been more bad than good.
There are sooo many things people learn over the years that can make it easier to deal with people. The sad truth is that most people will push in on you if you let them -- yeah they really can be rude and petty. Maybe you don't know how to defend yourself appropriately and so let people run over yourself too easily, or maybe you are overly sensitive and interpret a person as rude when another is simply stating their boundaries/preferences/options. We can't really know unless you're more specific. I'm not really sure this is the place to go into your dynamics in detail though -- I just hope you glean some things from what people have written and take advantage of the fact that there's much we can learn to make life easier.

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On 05/01/2018 at 5:46 AM, Ashlyn Voir said:

Even on platforms out of Second Life such as Flickr where a large number of Second Life residents share, I haven’t encountered one decent person as many seem fixated on being rude for absolutely no reason. I wouldn’t recommend the game to anyone really. Do you share the same sentiment as I do for this game? 

I've always found most people I encounter in SL perfectly friendly and helpful.   Certainly when I started to learn building and scripting, I was astonished at how generous most people were with their time, expertise and advice.    And I've never found it difficult to chat pleasantly with most people I encounter in clubs or generally exploring    Obviously there are some unpleasant folk wandering around, same as in RL, but there don't seem to be that many of them.    

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't think one example (childbirth) where pain is forgotten should be extrapolated to all experiences of pain/pleasure. There may be unique conditions that occur with childbirth since the reproductive process is important for survival to say the least, and our mind would likely do some pretty good tricks to keep that going.

I agree, and childbirth is a very specific thing.  A wise man once said that if the father had the first child and mother the second, there would not ever be a third!  It's certainly my experience that the pain is remembered, but cannot be revived, so some of us go through it again.

I hope the OP's painful experiences in sl are eventually not to be revived, and that the happier ones take over.

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3 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

Those are all reasons not to buy no mod things. But not buying still avoids the problem. 

When mesh bodies first became a thing, bodies like Wowmeh, Avatar 2.0, Kemono and such were ALL modifiable. The popular mesh heads and mesh breasts were all modifiable. Skip ahead to today and the market is drowning in no-mod bodies, heads, hair, etcetera. There is so much more no-mod content today than there was even a few years ago. I only know of one modifiable bento head. If you want a modifiable mesh body your choices are no longer supported pre-bento bodies or anime/furry avatars.

 And yet here were are, where every year those of us who realize these problems are finding ourselves with fewer and fewer options. Newer SL users who don't know any better are just screwed. Meanwhile, I'm constantly seeing people complaining about problems caused entirely by the stuff they buy being no-mod, but they blame everyone but the content creator who sold them broken content because they have no idea how easy some of these problems are to fix if the content were only modifiable. So "just not buying no-mod" doesn't really avoid the problem.The whole no-mod plague needs to be called out for what it is. People need to understand why it's such a problem.

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25 minutes ago, Penny Patton said:

"just not buying no-mod" doesn't really avoid the problem

I am sorry, but you have not shown this. You have just shown why you dislike no mod. 

 Do you think creators should be forced to make their products mod?  Or do you think they should make whatever they like and people should buy whatever they like? 

Edited by Pamela Galli
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14 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

Do you think creators should be forced to make their products mod?  Or do you think they should make whatever they like and people should buy whatever they like? 

No, creators can't be prevented from making this horrid choice, but they should be publicly shamed into no longer laying no-mod traps for their customers.

We should at every possible opportunity speak freely and denigrate these creators of no-mod content. They get far too much deference in Second Life.

We should warn every prospective customer that any no-mod item they buy will be obsolete before its time.

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2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

No, creators can't be prevented from making this horrid choice, but they should be publicly shamed into no longer laying no-mod traps for their customers.

We should at every possible opportunity speak freely and denigrate these creators of no-mod content. They get far too much deference in Second Life.

We should warn every prospective customer that any no-mod item they buy will be obsolete before its time.

 No argument from me, shame away. And explain to buyers why not to buy no mod. It’s a free market.

Also you could lobby LL to not allow objects to be no mod. 

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If no-mod was such a big deal for the majority of Second Life users, wouldn't the shift from things being mostly mod to lot's of non mod stuff coming out have been met with more backlash and less support? Wouldn't people just stop buying no-mod stuff enough that creators felt pressured to change?

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28 minutes ago, Nalytha said:

If no-mod was such a big deal for the majority of Second Life users, wouldn't the shift from things being mostly mod to lot's of non mod stuff coming out have been met with more backlash and less support? Wouldn't people just stop buying no-mod stuff enough that creators felt pressured to change?

Why did people buy tickets on the Titanic if it didn't have enough lifeboats for everyone? Sometimes things that don't look like a big deal when you're making a purchasing decision look bigger later...

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41 minutes ago, Nalytha said:

If no-mod was such a big deal for the majority of Second Life users, wouldn't the shift from things being mostly mod to lot's of non mod stuff coming out have been met with more backlash and less support? Wouldn't people just stop buying no-mod stuff enough that creators felt pressured to change?

Yes the free market works pretty much the same in SL as  anywhere: People make stuff And if people like if they buy it.  Occasionally the government intervenes, as with some safety issue. 

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Just me, but... 

When the bad outweighs the good, in (nearly) most experiences, regardless of where that takes place.....I find somewhere else to go, or I find a way to change the tide(so to speak)_. That's not me saying "why are you in sl at all?", or even "go away". for that matter. 

I've had such experiences in life (haven't we all?), even right here on the forums, wherein I found that no matter what my own participation was like, the overall experience during a particular discussion was overwhelmingly negative-even tot he point that it had far more of an impact on my rl goings on at the time, than it should have. So...I stopped replying, I stopped participating in that discussion, that experience. I walked away from it.I could have stuck around and argued with the lot, but, I chose not to. I didn't do that because I'm the bigger person, or because my own opinions and thoughts had been invalidated, or even because I was wrong (regardless of what anyone else at the time might have thought, lol). I did it for self preservation. It's sort of why we have self preservation methodologies-despite the fact that we may not always employ them when we should.

When I find myself getting "heated"-lack of better terminology on my part atm-during any encounter, I like to take a minute to think. Will putting up with this ***** make any difference? Will standing/staying here and trying to reason/argue/discuss/engage/whatever else have you eventually cause whatever negative feelings I am currently experiencing to go away? If not...adios muchachos. Self preservation kicks in. It may not seem super easy to "walk away", as it were, but it honestly is. 

Obviously, since you'e still here, you're still trying(regardless of what it is you think you're finding), there has to be something keeping you around, something keeping that self preservation mode from kicking in. If you don't know what that is...figure it out, find it, exploit it(and by that I mean use it, lol). Let go of everything else and focus on whatever it is that keeps ya around. For all of the times I have seen people say sl is full of nothing but rude, mean, narcissistic, petty...and a whole slue of other words, people...the vast majority of those who have said that, still stay. Why? It is my belief that they stay because while they may think that, from time to time, perhaps even more often than this, there is *something* that says the exact opposite to them...and so they stay around for that reason. As often as we throw around the whole "glutton for punishment" phrase, most folks don't really function like that. There is something else that keeps them around. Maybe it is because those folks are exactly what it is they perceive others are, aka, they're looking at a mirror and not a window, and maybe they derive some kind of pleasure from that. Maybe it's not that at all, but it s some small piece, some group of people, some aspect, whatever(I'm running out of words, oh my) SOMETHING...is keeping them around. Whether it is a desire for something, or something that is actually current present....it's something. Find it...and use it. 

TLDR; I think I've said the word something enough now...Umm, yeah...Back to what I originally said on page one..if all you seem to believe you're finding is that which you despise, odds are good you're looking at mirrors and not out windows. So, cover the mirror and open a window ;) 

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15 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Why did people buy tickets on the Titanic if it didn't have enough lifeboats for everyone? Sometimes things that don't look like a big deal when you're making a purchasing decision look bigger later...

Then  I guess people learn a lesson, plus government can introduce safety legislation.  But nobody is forced to buy tickets on ships without enough life boats. 

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1 hour ago, Pamela Galli said:

I am sorry, but you have not shown this. You have just shown why you dislike no mod. 

 Do you think creators should be forced to make their products mod?  Or do you think they should make whatever they like and people should buy whatever they like? 

List the top 5 modifiable bento heads.

List the top 5 modifiable human (non-anime/non-furry) bodies.

Just looking at what's available these days shows what I'm saying pretty definitively. As for whether or not creators should be forced to make their products mod all I can say is that I do believe that "fair use" is a very important legal precedent and I think it ought to be respected in SL.

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