ChinRey Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Sorry, but I have to question the level of mental wherewithal of anyone who thinks they can teach LL anything. Oh but trying to teach LL a lesson is just an excuse to do something that would be fun in itself. It doesn't have to be a credible excuse! Dresden Ceriano wrote: After all... they've gained such a substantial reputation for stupidity over the years. OK, seriously then: Yes, LL has that reputation but do they deserve it? It's easy to see LL's mistakes, even those who aren't so blatantly obvious as the Premium Gifts. It's much harder to see the things they do right. When things here just work smoothly they way they are supposed to. We tend to - and should - take that for granted but it takes a lot of hard and good work to keep it that way. LL has managed to run SL for 11 years now and that's actually very, very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 No Goblin crew?!! I am Disapoint!\o/:smileymad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 If you consider LL's gift as competition for you, then you must be thinking in terms of selling your airships. You may now have 5 sims and half a million prims to work with on another grid, but what you won't have are customers. You can make the best airships ever but if none of the 12 people who populate the grid you're on want to buy it, you're sunk. I'm exagerating about 12 people, of course, but I think it makes the point. That's right, Phil. I believe that those creators/merchants who left SL to another grid will be back sooner or later (sooner, most probably) or will be out of business. All those grids I checked are so poorly populated that I didn't even bother to create an account and peek into them to see how it is there. Also, it's easy to rant about SL's technical issues, but I'm sure other grids have similar problems, while not having the same level of features, and by far not the same population. SL is way the best grid there is, but that doesn't mean it couldn't — and shouldn't — be better. Of course the Lab is aware of this, and that's why they keep working to improve it. Still, some decisions like this silly premium gift are highly questionable, in this case under a premium member's perspective... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I don't think that any creators/merchants left SL to go to other grids, and stayed there, unless they sold next to nothing here. Some checked out significant other systems, like Blue Mars, so that they'd be there when it took off, but nothing has taken off. That will also happen with SL2 but, in that case, they'll stay there, as well as here until here is no longer worthwhile, because it will have a population from the outset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 I don't think that any creators/merchants left SL to go to other grids I know a couple who did. One is an art creator and the other is a builder (Koshari Mahana - http://kosharimahana.blogspot.com — I have a couple of her buildings I purchased before I started building.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: I guess LL figures there are enough premium members with an extra 500 prims to spare that we'll all be able to use it. That's the joke. It's worthless to a lot of people. I see vehicles like this for sale all the time in the marketplace. I always wonder... just who has the ability to buy those things and then use them? 500 LI... if it was a sim-sized roleplay platform with rooms galore and all kinds of things to do, sure. But as a vehicle - um, no. If most people cannot rez the thing - what's the point. What happens if you drive this into somebody's land that doesn't have 500 prims free? Nothing? Or something? As in; is it safe or is this basically a griefing platform? I think its safe... but... I've never tried to use something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Phil Deakins wrote: Parrish Ashbourne wrote: I was going to get a premium account today after seeing the 50% deal in my email last night, so I could finnish several large airships I have been working on for months, but I'm not going to pay LL to compeat with free stuff. I spent my $ else where, for 20$ I now have 5 sim on an other grid with a total of 1/2 a million prims to work with. This is a reply to Parrish but he deleted the contents of his post so I'm hijacking your post, Kelli. If you consider LL's gift as competition for you, then you must be thinking in terms of selling your airships. Yeah this is hardly competition. Its more like... OMG, that would be neat - I wonder if anyone out there sells one that I can actually rez... Oh look, this guy has one... /buy. Its advertising for people... if they realize that well, they can do one under 500 LI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Pussycat Catnap wrote: <snip> What happens if you drive this into somebody's land that doesn't have 500 prims free? Nothing? Or something? As in; is it safe or is this basically a griefing platform? I think its safe... but... I've never tried to use something like this. Usually you get a "Parcel is full, can not enter parcel" warning. So yes, you can't get there from here. ETA: The reason I use the word "usually" is that I don't know if that is an absolute, just that I have had that happen to me many times. And sometimes you get stuck at that border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhys Goode Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 The 500 prim gift is not the joke, the container it came in is the joke. A flat, 2-d image of the ship, inside a bottle with a bit of sand. LI is 27! Given its size, with proper LOD control on the mesh model, it really should not be more than 2 or 3. I can't concieve of uploading such a resource hog, if I wanted to build a similar ship in a bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 A flat, 2-d image of the ship, inside a bottle with a bit of sand. LI is 27! Given its size, with proper LOD control on the mesh model, it really should not be more than 2 or 3. I can't concieve of uploading such a resource hog, if I wanted to build a similar ship in a bottle. The thing is, the Lindens don't know what prims limitation is. And, of course, they'd love that us all would buy more land from them so we could rez that thing.. er... airship. Which once more shows that at least for some of them their concerns about our user experience is just blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Usually you get a "Parcel is full, can not enter parcel" warning. Exactly, Perrie, the same has happened to me too many times. Qie Niangao wrote "once you sit on it the Land Impact doesn't matter anymore. (That is, sat-upon objects do not count against the same 15,000 prim limit per sim, nor parcel limits.)" but my experience tells me something entirely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli May Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Holy moly, I rezzed that and didn't even check. It was this close *holds up finger & thumb* from being more than I could rez just to unpack it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 MBeatrix wrote: I don't think that any creators/merchants left SL to go to other grids I know a couple who did. One is an art creator and the other is a builder (Koshari Mahana - http://kosharimahana.blogspot.com — I have a couple of her buildings I purchased before I started building.) My full sentence was "I don't think that any creators/merchants left SL to go to other grids, and stayed there, unless they sold next to nothing here." I can understand creators who sell next to nothing in SL taking up residence in other grids, but not completely moving over if what they sold here was worthwhile. Doing other grids as well as continuing with SL is quite different, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 MBeatrix wrote: Usually you get a "Parcel is full, can not enter parcel" warning. Exactly, Perrie, the same has happened to me too many times. Qie Niangao wrote "once you sit on it the Land Impact doesn't matter anymore. (That is, sat-upon objects do not count against the same 15,000 prim limit per sim, nor parcel limits.)" but my experience tells me something entirely different. Really? I was trying not to complicate things and mention a very old bug that's an exception arising only when crossing a sim boundary directly into a parcel without enough prims. That's supposed to be the only case where the recipient sim will (usually) return the vehicle before it realizes it's a sat-upon vehicle. So if you're seeing that, yeah, sorry; I omitted it on purpose, but that may have been a mistake. If, on the other hand, you're seeing other occasions where sat-upon vehicles are returned (or generate that funky "cannot enter parcel" message) not involving sim crossings, then those may need new jiras. It is definitely not supposed to work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwine Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Qie Niangao wrote: MBeatrix wrote: Usually you get a "Parcel is full, can not enter parcel" warning. Exactly, Perrie, the same has happened to me too many times. Qie Niangao wrote "once you sit on it the Land Impact doesn't matter anymore. (That is, sat-upon objects do not count against the same 15,000 prim limit per sim, nor parcel limits.)" but my experience tells me something entirely different. Really? I was trying not to complicate things and mention a very old bug that's an exception arising only when crossing a sim boundary directly into a parcel without enough prims. That's supposed to be the only case where the recipient sim will (usually) return the vehicle before it realizes it's a sat-upon vehicle. So if you're seeing that, yeah, sorry; I omitted it on purpose, but that may have been a mistake. If, on the other hand, you're seeing other occasions where sat-upon vehicles are returned (or generate that funky "cannot enter parcel" message) not involving sim crossings, then those may need new jiras. It is definitely not supposed to work that way. I think it depends on whether the flight script is physical or non-physical. I know Galactic shipyards sells vehicle scripts for both and I seem to recall some planes have the option to become non-physical so they aren't limited by full parcels. Edit: I just flew into one that was being flown and it does seem to be physical. Which is curious... and suggests my understanding above is not entirely correct. But regardless, the good news is that this ship does go to zero land impact when you sit on it, I have just checked. Which does mean so long as you can rezz it and you can avoid orbs and are lucky with sim crossings you should be able to tour mainland in it pretty much as well as any other flight vehicle. I doubt I will use it, but it is a fun free gift. Are there premium sandboxes on the main continents?. (Edit I have found bricker on Zindra) I did lose it on a sim crossing soon after, but the sim crossings around there are bad enough without a vehicle. I should try it naked with just a pirate hat on next time hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Phil Deakins wrote: Parrish Ashbourne wrote: I was going to get a premium account today after seeing the 50% deal in my email last night, so I could finnish several large airships I have been working on for months, but I'm not going to pay LL to compeat with free stuff. I spent my $ else where, for 20$ I now have 5 sim on an other grid with a total of 1/2 a million prims to work with. This is a reply to Parrish but he deleted the contents of his post so I'm hijacking your post, Kelli. If you consider LL's gift as competition for you, then you must be thinking in terms of selling your airships. You may now have 5 sims and half a million prims to work with on another grid, but what you won't have are customers. You can make the best airships ever but if none of the 12 people who populate the grid you're on want to buy it, you're sunk. I'm exagerating about 12 people, of course, but I think it makes the point. A lot of people have cheap sims with high prim allotments on open sim grids for r&d purposes only and don't sell there. They can develope their products there without paying high land tiers or in some cases upload fees, then export the product and upload it to SL. It can save a lot of money, particularly for large builds and mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Thanks, Qie, I always assumed that was normal and not a bug. But I'll watch for those from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheriColette Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Derek Torvalar wrote: Pamela Galli wrote: What is depressing is thinking of all the things that could give Premium real value -- and they come up with this. Yes, like increasing sqm to 4096 instead of the paltry 512m. I vote for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Qie Niangao wrote: MBeatrix wrote: Usually you get a "Parcel is full, can not enter parcel" warning. Exactly, Perrie, the same has happened to me too many times. Qie Niangao wrote "once you sit on it the Land Impact doesn't matter anymore. (That is, sat-upon objects do not count against the same 15,000 prim limit per sim, nor parcel limits.)" but my experience tells me something entirely different. Really? I was trying not to complicate things and mention a very old bug that's an exception arising only when crossing a sim boundary directly into a parcel without enough prims. That's supposed to be the only case where the recipient sim will (usually) return the vehicle before it realizes it's a sat-upon vehicle. So if you're seeing that, yeah, sorry; I omitted it on purpose, but that may have been a mistake. If, on the other hand, you're seeing other occasions where sat-upon vehicles are returned (or generate that funky "cannot enter parcel" message) not involving sim crossings, then those may need new jiras. It is definitely not supposed to work that way. I'm aware of that bug. I hadn't thought of the relationship with the error message we mentioned. Right now I can't think of a location to test it (where I have encountered it). And I'm unsure now of the exact wording (though it's pretty close to what I said) but what makes sense here in this scenario also is that the SIM is not allowing object entry because it is both not recognising the object is sat on and it will exceed the prim limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 It ain't gonna happen, so better find something else to vote for. :matte-motes-wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheriColette Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 MBeatrix wrote: It ain't gonna happen, so better find something else to vote for. :matte-motes-wink: I know, but thanks for your concern lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillyBeth Filth Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Why don't they keep it simple? 50,000 L$ (Or some other amount that they feel is appropriate) That way, the money can go back into the economy and we ALL benefit. LL will make a 5% back on MP sales which the vast majority of sales are done anyway. EDIT: Or am I being naive? I never was good at maths or economy related things.... lol Would that cause an issue with the worth of the L$? I dunno...shooting from the hip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Now, that's something I would vote for, but L$50,000 sounds a bit excessive. Do you remember the ridiculous L$10 prize for all those who would login on a certain day a bit more than one year ago? So, I'd be happy with L$5,000, but of course the overall would be a lot of fake money (L$) that could be converted later to a real currency — at least, part of it. And considering the total number of premium accounts, that might hurt LL a tiny bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli May Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 LillyBeth Filth wrote: Why don't they keep it simple? 50,000 L$ (Or some other amount that they feel is appropriate) That way, the money can go back into the economy and we ALL benefit. LL will make a 5% back on MP sales which the vast majority of sales are done anyway. EDIT: Or am I being naive? I never was good at maths or economy related things.... lol Would that cause an issue with the worth of the L$? I dunno...shooting from the hip... A free $170-190? Not so bad if it stayed in circulation, but I'm prepared to bet a lot of people would just cash it out. If it was known to be a regular thing, it'd be worth creating premium accounts just to pick up - even in the highest VAT areas I know of, a years' subs only cost $90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 LillyBeth Filth wrote: Why don't they keep it simple? 50,000 L$ (Or some other amount that they feel is appropriate) That way, the money can go back into the economy and we ALL benefit. LL will make a 5% back on MP sales which the vast majority of sales are done anyway. EDIT: Or am I being naive? I never was good at maths or economy related things.... lol Would that cause an issue with the worth of the L$? I dunno...shooting from the hip... First off, the 5% Marketplace commission is just laughably low, regardless. It would make sense if there were serious competition, but that's not the case (anymore), so I hope for SL2 they have the good sense to crank that up to at least the industry-standard 30% for app-store like things. But the economics: It's true that pumping L$s into the SL economy stimulates activity, and that's why Premium weekly stipends exist. The thing is, it's a balancing act: as you guessed, if there are extra L$s circulating, they'll lose value, like any RL currency where too much of it has been printed. The reason that doesn't happen with the weekly stipend is that there are a bunch of "sinks" built-in to the economy that remove L$s from circulation (much) faster than they're sourced by stipends. One such sink is upload fees. In fact, the SL economy is balanced such that those sinks are considerably larger than regular sources, so LL sometimes sells L$s on the LindeX when the price of the L$ goes above the target. Hence, giving away L$s would in fact cost LL real money, in the form of lost sales on the LindeX. It's not quite one-to-one. Maybe some of that infusion of excess L$s would be absorbed in real growth to the SL economy. On the other hand, if the infusion were large enough, it would overwhelm the built-in L$ sinks and the L$'s value would decline. (As far as we know, LL never buys on the LindeX to prevent such an event.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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