Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

[irihapeti]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

He wants a giant botnet for crypto coin mining (which I suspect is the major revenue stream)

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i dont think so. Might be but dont think so

the money is in clipping the ticket by trust-authenticating the legitimacy of the transaction for both parties

also I dont think the crypto-currency will be bitcoin (mining) style. The proof-of-work algo just dont give the volume of tokens required for the fluidity needed for a system in which 100s of millions (if not 1000s of millions) of individual transactions are conducted every day

proof-of-stake be the most likely candidate I think. Treasury-minted and then blockchained in some verifiable secure way. Probably end up being more than one Treasury Mint. Same like RL sovereign treasury mints

assume it all works out like P is planning

+

if was a name for these then i think they will be called mints and not coins

like the Pip Mint probably end up be worth more than say any number of Lemon Mint. or something (:

the investors in the Pip Mint probably banking on that

[irihapeti]

lucky that you got a spacesuit and helmet. Am quite relieved about that. Can go really purple in the face (purply blue even) when have to hold your breath for ages

(:

[Gavin Hird]

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irihapeti wrote:

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

He wants a giant botnet for crypto coin mining (which I suspect is the major revenue stream)

---

i dont think so. Might be but dont think so

the money is in clipping the ticket by trust-authenticating the legitimacy of the transaction for both parties

also I dont think the crypto-currency will be bitcoin (mining) style. 

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It won't be Bitcoin because it is too hard to mine on consumer equipment, but rather one of the scrypt based crypto coins that mines pretty well on such equipment. These coins will produce the volume needed. Lite-coin can already be exchanged directly to a number of real currencies in addition to bit-coin. 

[Chic Aeon]

Thanks for the link.

 

I simply meant that the inventories on Aditi and Agni do not MATCH -- unless of course you change your password and "remirror" them.

[Chic Aeon]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

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Gavin Hird wrote:

There is also a scenario 1 1/2 and it goes like this:

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you have pretty much described HiFi

the question for LL and FB and everyone else in (or getting into) the VW space isn't: Why would we clone the HiFi offering?

 

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My first reactions when I listened to the HiFi presentation were these:

• He is proposing Opensim with Hypergrid – just "better"
• He wants a giant botnet for crypto coin mining (which I suspect is the major revenue stream)
• His proposal will be void of content from day one (and day one is two years out)

 

________________________________________________________________________

I may not have listened to the talk you heard and I don't remember any minint references, but since there will be an ALPHA  (applying had many questions about skills and content creatrion included in the long form) I doubt the world will be void of content

.

___________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

 

LL stands to succed with the Hypergrid route better than anyone else simply because they

1. have the core infrastructure in place
2. the hypergird issues are well understood through the early work LL participated in and from opensim
3. they have a good staff of programmers who undersstand their code base and what needs to be re-engineered
4. they have a pationate customer base
5. there is content as well as established content providers
6. they can start executing on this business model tomorrow without creating massive disruption to their user base like anything else would do (hence this long thread)
7. It solves scalability problems (not all)
8. It resolves most performance issues due to geo location
9. It makes it significantly easier to operate in different cultural and legislative context than the current "California Dreaming" model  

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One thing that you are overlooking is that most of the Hypergrid and indeed other SL like worlds that are not connected to it do not WANT Linden Labs in any way. The general populous is adamant and passionate about this to the point of boredom.

_____________________________________________________________________________

[irihapeti]

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Chic Aeon wrote:

One thing that you are overlooking is that most of the Hypergrid and indeed other SL like worlds that are not connected to it do not WANT Linden Labs in any way. The general populous is adamant and passionate about this to the point of boredom.

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Gavin never got the memo (:

[irihapeti]

Gavin Hird wrote:

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It won't be Bitcoin because it is too hard to mine on consumer equipment, but rather one of the scrypt based crypto coins that mines pretty well on such equipment. These coins will produce the volume needed. Lite-coin can already be exchanged directly to a number of real currencies in addition to bit-coin. 

---

 

Litecoin can produce at most 84 million coins. (bitcoin 21 million)

84m is nowhere near enough when start apply to 100s of millions accounts. Even if all coins were mined and all accounted for

take even only 100 million accounts. 0.84 coin each. take FB with 1.3 billion accounts. how much fraction of a coin now?

shift each coin by 10 decimals places even. (All you doing when do a shift like this is printing more banknotes. Keep doing this then get hyper-inflation. But anyways)

How much are those coins worth each now at 10^10? What is the total sum available?

when start talk about 100s of millions of accounts then need heaps and heaps of money to keep it stable. Fluidity/liquidity yes. For example UK has M4 2.1 trillion pounds for 63 million people. Then think about rest of EU. 500 million people yes. How much M4 do they need?

so what happens when need heaps and heaps of money to keep the market stable fluid and liquid? Mint

+

ps

litecoin isnt any easier to mine than bitcoin. You just get more when the mine is successful. get 4x coins more than bitcoin for each. is computationally slower overall

can still have a blockchain tho to track transaction history. Is a benefit in that part. For digital goods blockchaining is the future (i hope so anyways)

mining is not the future. Mining dont scale. bc computation. Alternative? Mint

[Chic Aeon]

Thanks again for the link. I did read through ALL the articles and found "spiritual successor" in the text but no reference to SL2 or SL 2.0 (my personal fav at this point as it is short) and felt that the reporters followed the press release well (not necessarily a gold star in my book).

The article at engadget.com was excellent and the only one with ACTUAL NEWS. So worth taking the time to read IMHO.

AND after reading the quotes from Ebbe in THAT article I do have a clearer picture of the new platform and it honestly doesn't sound much like OUR SL at all. I am not really sure if it will be something I like, but not being in the Facebook or Desura crowd or an avid MMO gamer (which seems to be the target audiences at this point)  we will just have to see.

The statements about all devices enabled at the beginning wasn't actually new news as that had been spoken of before, but it does speak to the viewer question and the entry difficulty for "the masses". And that worries me a bit.

In the big picture though, it seems like SL and the NEW PLATFORM will be very different; good for some, not for others. So I suspect our current platform will be around without too many changes for a long time. 

[Medhue Simoni]

---

Chic Aeon wrote:

Thanks again for the link. I did read through ALL the articles and found "spiritual successor" in the text but no reference to SL2 or SL 2.0 (my personal fav at this point as it is short) and felt that the reporters followed the press release well (not necessarily a gold star in my book).

 

The article at 

engadget.com

was excellent and the only one with ACTUAL NEWS. So worth taking the time to read IMHO.

AND after reading the quotes from Ebbe in THAT article I do have a clearer picture of the new platform and it honestly doesn't sound much like OUR SL at all. I am not really sure if it will be something I like, but not being in the Facebook or Desura crowd or an avid MMO gamer (which seems to be the target audiences at this point)  we will just have to see.

The statements about all devices enabled at the beginning wasn't actually new news as that had been spoken of before, but it does speak to the viewer question and the entry difficulty for "the masses". And that worries me a bit.

In the big picture though, it seems like SL and the NEW PLATFORM will be very different; good for some, not for others. So I suspect our current platform will be around without too many changes for a long time. 

---

I think that all those descriptions kind of say the same thing tho, SL2.

If you understand the 3D creation process, and how things work together, it's pretty obvious that the New World, and SL will be 2 completely different things. Yes, it might have many of the same principles. Over time, they might even become more similar, but that will take time, as I don't see how LL can truly replicate some aspects of SL, without upsetting many people, if they were forced to use it.

This is why, I think, the REAL SL will be around for as long as people want it to be. And, I think, that perpetuating any thought that the new world will replace SL, will only hurt the REAL SL. I really do wish LL would be clear, or take the stand, that they are not making SL2, or at least, not trying to initially. Yeah, I kind think that is what they are saying, but it is not quite clear enough. I would just hate to see some of the histeria lead to people making uninformed decisions.

Did you see the part where he compares the New World to Unity? I think that is probably the most telling statement he can make. Many worlds are going in this direction, but unlike SL, they don't allow for content importing like SL. I do not expect Yahoo, nor Facebook to allow content importing. Yes, Unity does, but it isn't a world, just a game engine. Microsoft has been working on Project Sparks for the past couple of years. I'm in the beta, and it is totally a game creation platform, but more for kids, with no content importing. Microsoft supplies all the content for the kids to build their worlds with. So, IMHO, LL is setting itself up nicely to show how things should actually be done, when it comes to virtual worlds and games. If done right, those others worlds will attract the masses, and the new world that LL created should gobble them all up, just because it has millions more content to choose from.

[Gavin Hird]

You'd have to address HiFi on the disadvantages of crypto currency since they are the ones planning on using it. ;-)

My initial thought on the subject was that user machines on that grid technology will be used also for mining. - Which is totally viable. 

[Gavin Hird]

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Chic Aeon wrote:

---

One thing that you are overlooking is that most of the Hypergrid and indeed other SL like worlds that are not connected to it do not WANT Linden Labs in any way. The general populous is adamant and passionate about this to the point of boredom.

_____________________________________________________________________________

---

What you are overlooking is that I talk about using hypergrid (which is a technology Linden labs helped develop) between grids running Linden Lab's server backend, and not opensim. 

So they can be so passionate about it as they want. It is of no relevance to them ;-)

[Monalisa Robbiani]

I'd like to see a total separation of the avatar/s (name, account, appearance, clothing, outfits) and rezzable inventory (builds, worlds, sims, whatever). Talking in 2d terms, the avatar is the email address or chat handle while the world is made of web addresses (URLs). We could pick an identity to visit different worlds and we could pay a fee to buy a domain name instead of renting land. Just a thought ...

[Chic Aeon]

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

---

Chic Aeon wrote:

Thanks again for the link. I did read through ALL the articles and found "spiritual successor" in the text but no reference to SL2 or SL 2.0 (my personal fav at this point as it is short) and felt that the reporters followed the press release well (not necessarily a gold star in my book).

 

The article at 

engadget.com

was excellent and the only one with ACTUAL NEWS. So worth taking the time to read IMHO.

AND after reading the quotes from Ebbe in THAT article I do have a clearer picture of the new platform and it honestly doesn't sound much like OUR SL at all. I am not really sure if it will be something I like, but not being in the Facebook or Desura crowd or an avid MMO gamer (which seems to be the target audiences at this point)  we will just have to see.

The statements about all devices enabled at the beginning wasn't actually new news as that had been spoken of before, but it does speak to the viewer question and the entry difficulty for "the masses". And that worries me a bit.

In the big picture though, it seems like SL and the NEW PLATFORM will be very different; good for some, not for others. So I suspect our current platform will be around without too many changes for a long time. 

---

I think that all those descriptions kind of say the same thing tho, SL2.

If you understand the 3D creation process, and how things work together, it's pretty obvious that the New World, and SL will be 2 completely different things. Yes, it might have many of the same principles. Over time, they might even become more similar, but that will take time, as I don't see how LL can truly replicate some aspects of SL, without upsetting many people, if they were forced to use it.

This is why, I think, the REAL SL will be around for as long as people want it to be. And, I think, that perpetuating any thought that the new world will replace SL, will only hurt the REAL SL. I really do wish LL would be clear, or take the stand, that they are not making SL2, or at least, not trying to initially. Yeah, I kind think that is what they are saying, but it is not quite clear enough. I would just hate to see some of the histeria lead to people making uninformed decisions.

Did you see the part where he compares the New World to Unity? I think that is probably the most telling statement he can make. Many worlds are going in this direction, but unlike SL, they don't allow for content importing like SL. I do not expect Yahoo, nor Facebook to allow content importing. Yes, Unity does, but it isn't a world, just a game engine. Microsoft has been working on Project Sparks for the past couple of years. I'm in the beta, and it is totally a game creation platform, but more for kids, with no content importing. Microsoft supplies all the content for the kids to build their worlds with. So, IMHO, LL is setting itself up nicely to show how things should actually be done, when it comes to virtual worlds and games. If done right, those others worlds will attract the masses, and the new world that LL created should gobble them all up, just because it has millions more content to choose from.

---

After reading the ACTUAL OFFICIAL COMMENTS - to me at least the picture is clearer and I do agree that the worlds will apparently be VERY different and with a different primary focus. That may work for some SLers and for some not.

 

I think the important part is that Ebbe said "in the spirit of Second Life". To me that means the "your world, your imagination" idea. They are building the platform to enable the creators to create and push the envelope. The creator in me is happy about that part of the equation.

 

Both Oz and Peter Linden took part in an inworld discussion today (the video will be linked to the Firestorm blog when it is processed). There it seemed quite obvious (at least that is the party line) that SL will pretty much be going on as usual. Since, as mentioned in the video - and I had thought about this before - many of the devs had been working on the new platform for a quite some time (most likely Desura and TOS August days) and there have still been many improvements; things may work out just fine. The Lab owns and runs several businesses and has for some time. It hasn't been JUST SL for awhile.

The folks that remain on the SL team CHOSE to be on it and I think that is a very good thing.

 

 

 

[Chic Aeon]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

---

Chic Aeon wrote:

---

One thing that you are overlooking is that most of the Hypergrid and indeed other SL like worlds that are not connected to it do not WANT Linden Labs in any way. The general populous is adamant and passionate about this to the point of boredom.

_____________________________________________________________________________

---

What you are overlooking is that I talk about using hypergrid (which is a technology Linden labs helped develop) between grids running Linden Lab's server backend, and not opensim. 

So they can be so passionate about it as they want. It is of no relevance to them ;-)

---

I was here when The Lab developed it and remember when they demostrated and THEN abandoned it all and all ideas about interconnectivity. So I did note what you said. I just don't see it happening any more than I see SL being linked to OS and other grids.

[Melody Regent]

I fully understand that this is a while out.  They may not understand fully what will happen technology wise and I do agree that land ownership is a smaller detail, but not by loads.  I fully doubt they will let us pull our sims with us, or even let us 'transfer' them, so to speak.  However, I do hope they will offer a significant discount on the purchase of sims.  But, at this point, I am not even sure we are talking apples to apples when it comes to sim size/prims.  So how do you compare something you do not know how it will work out in the end? 

What I do hope, is that they will keep this sort of thing in the fore front of their minds when the time comes and will not keep putting off the questions but will answer them honestly and openly at the right time.   As someone that invests hundreds of thousand of US dollars a year, I do hold out the hope that we will be treated with the respect this sort of investment deserves to be treated with.

I will wait till things are further down the line, but I do hope that LL will not treat us like redheaded child and leaves us to hang in the wind.

I may not be the CEO of a company like Linden Labs, but I am sure Mr. Altberg would not consider our business to be insginficant in the least.  Right Mr. Altberg?

Melody Regent
CEO - MoMel Technologies
Regent Estates
MLCC

[Mony Lindman]

The discussion with Oz and Peter Linden has been posted here:

http://www.slartist.com/inworld-special-the-future-of-second-life_e24669d7f.html

I wish i could comment on what they said but since they said nothing except "keep calm and carry on".. i cant.

I will therefore comment on an apparently minor aspect but that says a lot more than words: their appearance

So you have there 2 directors , LL Technical Director and LL Global Communications Director, both coming in front of the camera to represent the leadership of LL and to make important statements in a very important moment, knowing that their avatars will be seen by a lot of SL users.

Aaaand.. they both wear noob skins and clothes , probably from the library and the Communication Director of LL .. has no shoes..

Did i say i will comment on this ? Well.. in fact i should say only .. no comment.

But just to make sure my "no comment" is understood , I will explain.. If these LL officials don't even spend as much time in SL as it is needed to create a "not noob" avatar, how will they ever be able to understand whats going on here ? And if these LL officials dont even feel the NEED of having an at least normal look when they move in the virtual world that they lead.. how can we ever hope that they will ever love this world the way we do..

I know .. they are in fact "coders" and we all know that this kind of people look like noobs or dont care how they look even in RL (see Bill Gates or Zukerberg) but what we have here are 2 DIRECTORS of a VIRTUAL WORLD in which everybody can and does look a lot better than in RL. And if these 2 directors dont have the artistic skills to make a normal avatar , at least , out of respect for their users , they could have bought a ready made one.. even the (usual for scripters) mouse or dog or fox .. and even the same for both if they are so bad paid that they cant afford a different one for each ... but to come in front of the camera in just socks without shoes .. as a Director of Communications.. really no comment ..

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Mony Lindman wrote:

The discussion with Oz and Peter Linden has been posted here:

http://www.slartist.com/inworld-special-the-future-of-second-life_e24669d7f.html

I wish i could comment on what they said but since they said nothing except "keep calm and carry on".. i cant.

I will therefore comment on an apparently minor aspect but that says a lot more than words: their appearance

So you have there 2 directors , LL Technical Director and LL Global Communications Director, both coming in front of the camera to represent the leadership of LL and to make important statements in a very important moment, knowing that their avatars will be seen by a lot of SL users.

Aaaand.. they both wear noob skins and clothes , probably from the library and the Communication Director of LL .. has no shoes..

Did i say i will comment on this ? Well.. in fact i should say only .. no comment.

But just to make sure my "no comment" is understood , I will explain.. If these LL officials don't even spend as much time in SL as it is needed to create a "not noob" avatar, how will they ever be able to understand whats going on here ? And if these LL officials dont even feel the NEED of having an at least normal look when they move in the virtual world that they lead.. how can we ever hope that they will ever love this world the way we do..

I know .. they are in fact "coders" and we all know that this kind of people look like noobs or dont care how they look even in RL (see Bill Gates or Zukerberg) but what we have here are 2 DIRECTORS of a VIRTUAL WORLD in which everybody can and does look a lot better than in RL. And if these 2 directors dont have the artistic skills to make a normal avatar , at least , out of respect for their users , they could have bought a ready made one.. even the (usual for scripters) mouse or dog or fox .. and even the same for both if they are so bad paid that they cant afford a different one for each ... but to come in front of the camera in just socks without shoes .. as a Director of Communications.. really no comment ..

 

 

---

I listened to the first few minutes and really need to go back and finish it.

But it made me so ill I had to stop.

Is Jessica that naive?  In no way shape or form does Peter put his professional reputation on the chopping block by answering that question, "Are there plans to shut SL down?"  What a moot point. 

There may be no plans to shut it down to today but if tomorrow the Board decided to shut SL down he can stand there with complete integrity, announce it, and if anything it enhances his corporate reputation and value because said what the Board told him to.

What a bunch of unadulterated mooing.

I appreciate that she is trying to bring some calm to people but we are not that dumb.

Jessica, we aren't all children out here.

[Phoebe Avro]

Most of LL are tolal sl idiots bar say Torley linden who is very cool, I vote Torley as CEO though i am sure he would run if offered the job ^^

[arton Rotaru]

The one with no shoes is Oz actually. Now, the Technical Director of Second Life. :matte-motes-big-grin:

Give credit where credit is due. :matte-motes-smitten:

[Qie Niangao]

Not that it particularly matters, but just for completeness, it's Oz, the new Technical Director, who doesn't wear shoes, and I always assumed that was somehow associated with the vaguely Zen look of his overall avatar -- but admittedly, I never looked that closely. Pete, the Communications guy, wore sneakers. I have no idea if he picked his own avatar, or if they "have people for that."

The thing I was pondering about the whole arrangement was that the Lab chose to do this on FIrestorm's sim, presumably by invitation from Jessica. I'm not sure how to interpret that choice of venue.

The event comes on the heels of Ebbe's initial statements about SL2 which was at a TPV dev meeting.

It's probably true that most SL users now invest more credibility in Firestorm than in Linden Lab, so perhaps the Lindens were just being practical and leveraging that.

 

I know some Firestorm folks were making a tremendous fuss when they first heard that SL2 would start out closed-source. That made them look fairly silly, so maybe they realized that by themselves, or maybe a Linden helped them come to that understanding, but anyway they seem to have STFU about that now. No idea if the choice of venue for this was related at all.

 

[Phoebe Avro]

Oz go buy some fffing shoes and a skin etc to look like a noob in the position you keep!  get a damn SL^^

[Darkness Anubis]

As a guy who has only changed one thing about his avatar since 2004 I want to point out one mistake.

He IS wearing shoes. That is what flat system shoes look like. LOL  That is also the one thing I have changed about my avatar since 2004. I bought a pair of prim shoes about 5 years ago.

Now I keep my AV as he is because this has been my identity here for so long it just would not be me otherwise. I also keep him this way because I don't lag and never spend more than a second as a cloud even in busy place.

I have lost track of when OZ joined the lab maybe he is one of the older ones like me. Ebbe nope no excuse based on age there. I could make an argument that if they regularly have to deal with crowds the faster loading times and reduced lag might be part of the reason behind the avatar choices.

[Phoebe Avro]

my second reply ^^

More talk by LL staff at 3rd party sites but still no blog post! my opinion of LL was low before this almighty cockup and LL continue to act like complete amateurs with regards to the way they run a business!

Quite astounding!

People want to run to the so called better life, LL have a track record of contempt for SL residents they don't like you they just want your cash they do what others have done in the past they chase the new trendy customers while ignoring their old faithfull customers, yes me and you!

There is a story here Orange as an ISP did this exact same thing in the UK and you wanna know what happened?

They lost 60,000 customers in 12 months! I was one of those 60,000!

[arton Rotaru]

Open Positions

Software Engineer

Sr. Software Engineer

Sr. Software Engineer

Sr. Software Engineer

Grid Nanny

Sr. Software Engineer

Sr. Software Engineer

....

:matte-motes-smile:

[Mony Lindman]

Yes , i had the permanent feeling that im watching a program of the North Corean TV where all questions and answers were aproved in advance by the big leader and under each chair there was a bomb that would explode if any of them would say one single different word than what was aproved. Even Putin's press conference as he invaded Crimea was less "arranged" than this..

Jessica , as the one who put the word out in the first place may feel to some degree responsible for this mess and therefore i understand why she accepted to participate in this "comedia dell arte a la Pravda" but then she should have really stopped the meeting after 2 minutes (time code 02:14) as she said : "Thats it for today, thank you all for coming" and call it a done job.

Guys if you really want to full us in this particular way, then hire some real aces in the art of confusion, someone like Bill Clinton who can say such wonderful things like "that depends on your understanding of the word it" or even Rumsfeld himself who says: "Every generalisation is false. Including this one" and then he smiles ... and at that point i must give up asking anything..

But dont come with Dubaya Bush and say (and this is an exact  quote!) : "Full me once , shame on you. Full me twice... uhmmm.. you cant full me twice".

Fact is that with this show today , you cant even full me once..