Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

[Drongle McMahon]

Should LL decide to use any of these , I want 0.5% of the net income"

Sorry. I think you need to read section 7.4 of the ToS. :smileysad:

[Gavin Hird]

VEGA = Virtual Experience Galaxy

[Gavin Hird]

Crash

"What are you gonna do today?" – "I'm gonna Crash"

"What are you doing? – "I'm Crashing"

"Let's meet for a Crash!"

"Come Crash at my place"

 

That was just a wild idea, but IMO the name needs to be something you do and not something you have (like a second life)

 

[Mony Lindman]

---

The bottom line is that everyone can be not only a region owner, but a grid owner as well, and each grid can be configured as powerful or lightweight (in terms of CPU power per unit of virtual space) as needed. As an added bonus, if one such grid goes down, none of the others will be affected in any way. Users can teleport from one grid to another, send IMs across grid boundaries, take their inventory to any place they like, etc.

 

---

Any teckies around who could explain to me why should LL not be able to do something similar to the OS Grid for the old SL? And let people host their grids or at least their sims on their own computers with that "sim on a stick" solution or any other available, while using "hypergrid" technology to connect all these grids and regions and to teleport in between with their whole SL Inventory?

OK, SL would lose some tier money in this case but not all coz many will continue to rent land, mostly if it will be cheaper, but on the other side it would gain more users this way, would gain even more diversity and would become even more "interesting" for different groups of people than it already is ..

 

[Gavin Hird]

---

Mony Lindman wrote:

---

Any teckies around who could explain to me why should LL not be able to do something similar to the OS Grid for the old SL? And let people host their grids or at least their sims on their own computers with that "sim on a stick" solution or any other available, while using "hypergrid" technology to connect all these grids and regions and to teleport in between with their whole SL Inventory?

 

---

Sim on a stick might be bit of a stretch, but horizontal scaling through multiple connected grids are well within reach. 

Right now there are bound to be licensing issues, with the physics engine sprining to mind first, but that can be overcome if bulletsim physics is given a few more spins in the centrifuge.

Whole inventory? Doable but potential can of worms when it comes to IP. I would think a home grid where you have your inventory and base, and then a travel suitcase. At the end of the day it is up to the content creator to decide where items can move. 

[Perrie Juran]

---

WickedWanda1956 wrote:

At this time, I am a premium member with a quarterly billing cycle (yes, I know yearly would make more sense, can’t afford it), whose re-billing date is at the end of July. When I first started out, the only real incentive to be a premium member was the Linden house we got and the weekly stipend of 300L$. But I am renting a small piece of land now (1008 sq for 301L$ weekly getting 230 prims), and checking the buy lindens tab on the SL website a few minutes ago, I discovered that for $22.50 USD$ (the quarterly billing amount), I could buy 5,557L$ instead of receiving 3,900L$(300L$ times 13 weeks). What incentive is there for me to continue to be a premium member after this month?

---

It's one of those things you do have to do your math on.

Most Landlords charged at a per prim rate no matter the size of your parcel.  They generally did not discount the rate for larger parcels.

So the basic math was it was cheaper overall to rent if you were doing a 2048 or smaller.  But once you went over that because of the discounted rate LL gave per prim, it became cheaper to be premium and own your own.

I hope I've stated this in an understandable manner.  I used to always show the math on this but feeling lazy right now.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

---

Mony Lindman wrote:

---

Any teckies around who could explain to me why should LL not be able to do something similar to the OS Grid for the old SL? And let people host their grids or at least their sims on their own computers with that "sim on a stick" solution or any other available, while using "hypergrid" technology to connect all these grids and regions and to teleport in between with their whole SL Inventory?

 

---

Sim on a stick might be bit of a stretch, but horizontal scaling through multiple connected grids are well within reach. 

Right now there are bound to be licensing issues, with the physics engine sprining to mind first, but that can be overcome if bulletsim physics is given a few more spins in the centrifuge.

Whole inventory? Doable but potential can of worms when it comes to IP. I would think a home grid where you have your inventory and base, and then a travel suitcase. At the end of the day it is up to the content creator to decide where items can move. 

---

IP is a huge issue.

Also, I hate to use the word but I lack better, but is there any way to "police" the grid.

What do you do about renegade SIM's on a stick connecting to the hypergrid and dumping stolen content onto it?

 

[WickedWanda1956]

Thanks, Perrie. Yes you did. While I will continue renting, I am going to stop being a premium member unless something changes between now and the end of the month to give me an incentive to continue as premium.

[Mony Lindman]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

---

Mony Lindman wrote:

---

Any teckies around who could explain to me why should LL not be able to do something similar to the OS Grid for the old SL? And let people host their grids or at least their sims on their own computers with that "sim on a stick" solution or any other available, while using "hypergrid" technology to connect all these grids and regions and to teleport in between with their whole SL Inventory?

 

---

Sim on a stick might be bit of a stretch, but horizontal scaling through multiple connected grids are well within reach. 

Right now there are bound to be licensing issues, with the physics engine sprining to mind first, but that can be overcome if bulletsim physics is given a few more spins in the centrifuge.

Whole inventory? Doable but potential can of worms when it comes to IP. I would think a home grid where you have your inventory and base, and then a travel suitcase. At the end of the day it is up to the content creator to decide where items can move. 

---

Nonono.. im not talking (this time about grids OUTSIDE SL and connected with SL like in the hypergrid..

What i mean this tim is that people registerd as SL members could host their sims and maybe even whole grids on their computers and those sims, groups of sims or even grids would be still part of SL , bound to the rules of SL and the inventory would still be on SL servers and no sim or grid owner would be able to get full permissions on those items hosted on SL servers. And if they bring in copyboted content they should be treated like the other copyboters..

The idea is to host your sim or group of sims on your computer and save this way tier money. And that group of sims could be as big as your computer can hold , up to the size of a .. small grid on which you can create the kind of world that you like .. vampire grid if thats your passion , or Gorean grid , BDSM grid.. swingers grid , or educational grid , gamming grid, etc. Not necessarily all with the size of a grid but just a like 5-6 sims. And you can expand if needed and if your computer can hold more..

And this not as a replacement for the existing world but as an extenssion of it ..

Many creative people who cant afford or do not wish to pay the price of a small appartment in RL for a virtual sim , would take advantage of this choice and would create even more wonderful worlds, which would attract even more users in SL. And these worlds would not have to be filled with adboards and vendors because they cost no money so they dont neeed to do all that in order to pay the tier, unless thy want to.

This would be added value to SL and would cost nothing..

 

[Mony Lindman]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

IP is a huge issue.

Also, I hate to use the word but I lack better, but is there any way to "police" the grid.

What do you do about renegade SIM's on a stick connecting to the hypergrid and dumping stolen content onto it?

 

---

See my replay to Gavin above. It would be all WITHIN SL so no IP issue

[Ebbe Linden]

---

Indigo Mertel wrote:

Ebbe, can you share something about what graphic engine will LL use for SL2? Are you going to use Unity, by chance? Or, will you develop your own?

 

---

We're not ready to talk about this yet. 

[irihapeti]

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

There is also a scenario 1 1/2 and it goes like this:

---

you have pretty much described HiFi

the question for LL and FB and everyone else in (or getting into) the VW space isn't: Why would we clone the HiFi offering?

when the question is: How can we make a VW product that differentiates itself from the other companies offerings. Differentiated enough so that people/users/customers go: thats interesting. I am give that a go

Is not a question of why. Is a question of how. How is a doing word. Why is a wondering word. Can wonder forever and not do anything. So work out how you going to do it and then do it      

[irihapeti]

---

Gaia Clary wrote:

So, here is my name proposal

G

reat

O

utfits

,

N

o

D

rama

,

W

onderful

A

rt

,

N

atural

A

mbience

:

GONDWANA

Probably nobody would enter because lack of Drama or fear of Dino's :matte-motes-evil:

---

i vote for this name. I like it (:

 

 

  

[Chic Aeon]

---

---

Ebbe has been doing press for this in the past week. All of them use the term, SL2, even Ebbe. Look at all this talk about people's inventory. If they were not thinking it will be SL2, then why would they want their inventories? This is what I mean tho. By framing it as SL2, it implies many things, including inventories.

---

Can you paste in some documentation here with links? That would be good.  And Ebbe answered my question about inventories long ago saying that we would be able to keep inventories in both places but that since not everything would port to The New World, they would not be "mirrors". So similar to the beta grid effect which is like that.

 

 

[Dillon Levenque]

Nothing to to do with your post, really. I just wanted to interject that two posts above yours was a post from Ebbe Linden, answering a question posted three days ago. Meaning that in a span of three days someone at the lab has taken the time to wade farther through this thread and find a direct question that can be answered (even if the answer probably disappointed the asker since all he said was that it was too early to talk about that).

That post from Ebbe Linden indicates a level of attention from LL that the Forum has not seen since 2010 (or maybe 2011). IIRC, the old Jive forum shut down in late February of the same year as the first Hippiestock (which was 2010) and was reborn in Lithium guise a month or so later. We floundered around quite a bit, but at some point things leveled off and most of us became comfortable with the rules and conditions. What we did not see was any participation from LL employees, always excepting the constant blessing of Torley.

Then someone who used to be a frequent forum contributor—I think her name was Scylla something ;-)—started a thread asking the then new CEO to 'Phone Home' (since he'd already made an appearance in an unofficial SL forum elsewhere). He finally did respond to her thread and not long after that Lindens were thick on the ground around here. We'd see them answering questions in the Land forum and saying they'd look into possible violations and all sorts of stuff. It was a really nice time, or at least I thought it was. Since it happened in April and May there's no reason not to think of it as the Forum Spring.

Unfortunately, all that visibility stopped not long after, and has not revived until just recently. I kind of doubt the new CEO had enough spare time to ask about the resident forum but clearly SOMEBODY (possibly multiple somebodies) at LL knew about it and cared about it and asked for more participation. Ebbe has clearly encouraged that, just as his predecessor (after starting off so encouragingly) clearly did not. I'm quite happy with that.

I know this has nothing whatever to do with the OP, but since we know virtually nothing about the new virtual world (wasn't intended if you're wondering, but I'm sticking with it now that I see how clever it might be taken) everything in this thread is pure speculation anyway. At least it's honestly just speculation and wondering. There's another thread that was asking what the land pricing structure would be in the new SL. The one that is hopefully going to be ready for beta testing before the end of 2015, with (if all goes well) a full release in 2016. Land prices? Are you kidding?

I do like Gondwana, although I'd vote for the alternate Gondwanaland just because I like the way it reads.  Either way it would give a name to a starting point. Years later, it might have been tectonically separated into several entirely different places but those with the tools to learn could dig back through the past to find common origins in a place that existed in another time.

 

[Derek Torvalar]

Ebbe sez "Yes, we are thinking that there will be free accounts but that's a while out as Beta next year may not be completely open. "

 

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Forums-Feedback/Chat-with-us-masters-Lindens/m-p/2762604/highlight/false#M4343

[Medhue Simoni]

---

Mony Lindman wrote:

These "first hand" content creators are a MINORITY of the total amount of content creators in the present SL. The majority is the "second hand" content creators , those who buy items made by the "first hand", combine them , modify them and create new items contributing this way to the unequaled variety of content available in the old SL, and driving its economy!

 

If LL will leave behind THIS MAJORITY of "second hand" content creators together with 90% of thier inventories , filled with their previous creations and with their investments in future creations, then LL will not survive in this competition!

 

Because it ignores exactly that what LL states and KNOWS that is and should remain the BASE of their business. And their only chance ..

 

Mesh gurus alone will not create an economy ! They can sell those things from their HD anywhere.. Wile the "second hand" content creators can sell their creations ONLY IN SL ! So you can bet they will stay in SL.  In the old SL by all means and, if LL makes it possible .. also in the new SL ..  

 

But if their years of work and their millions of dollars invested in "first hand" items for future creations will not be ported to the new SL then good luck LL in surviving with only the mesh gurus around and a lot of kids looking for shiny worlds .. and leaving them when they get bored, which kids always do by default..

 

 

---

There is a small problem with this logic. See, those "second hand" creators purchased those full perm items for a reason. They did it to make money. And they did, for the most part, or they would not have bought so much. That investment will likely keep paying off until they are no longer competitive.

In the New World, even if they have to buy similar items all over again, it's just another investment, for another world. I sell animation, so I will likely have to redo them for them to work properly. As the "first hand" creator, the rework is not insignificant, besides learning the new system enough to create the proper animations. I would have to charge for them. Even meshes, If someone desides the mesh could use a bone system and animations for it, then it's not just an upload, but involved work to make it for this new world.

If "second hand" creators made a profit on things in SL, why would they not in the new world? See the cost is somewhat insignificant, because the end result is profit. Even in the real world, if I know that buying a program will make me alot more profit than the cost of the program, then I'd be kind of dumb not to buy the program. The real question is, whether the New World will build the economy fast enough to support all those "second hand" creators.

There is also another aspect that has not even been mentioned yet, and is actually the solution to this whole issue. Depending on the format LL decides to use, instead of "second hand" creators buying the items off of LL's Marketplace, only to be used in that world, creators might decide to sell these items on their own Websites in that format, with a more open license to sell the items in any world. Some are already doing this, and I would expect many more when this New World opens.

[Medhue Simoni]

---

Chic Aeon wrote:

---

---

Ebbe has been doing press for this in the past week. All of them use the term, SL2, even Ebbe. Look at all this talk about people's inventory. If they were not thinking it will be SL2, then why would they want their inventories? This is what I mean tho. By framing it as SL2, it implies many things, including inventories.

---

Can you paste in some documentation here with links?

 

 

---

This thread has a list of interviews and press releases recently done. Most, if not all of them, reference this new world as "spiritual sequel", or just "SL sequel", or "successor".

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/SL-back-in-the-RL-news/m-p/2762754#U2762754

 

---

Chic Aeon wrote:

---

---

So similar to the beta grid effect which is like that.

---

I seriously doubt that is what he meant. I think he was just saying that we would have an inventory in the new world. He has said quite clearly that not all items can be ported over. Plus, it is pretty easy for a knowledgable creator to know almost exactly what will and won't be ported, and we have talked about this extensively. I'll predict right now, that nothing will be ported over. So, I really hope no1 is counting on that.

 

 

[irihapeti]

yes agree pretty much Dillon

is lots of speculation and chat about what if and what if not and some worries as well. Worries for the most part that are genuinely held and expressed.  And also some massive derails and sidetracks which happens as well in these kinda discussions and things

so is ok for us to wonder and would be a worry I think if we did not. For LL then i think they are best to just get on and do it. Which they show they are doing. so all good I think. Good that they are doing something and not wondering themselves about it anymore

+

about the land part added to Gondwana

am sorry but when I run into you in the inworld then imma orbit you q; (: Just so you can experience the thrill and excitement of being zillions of metres way up in the heavens and no more stuck with your feet in the ground with all them other flat land loving people. You will like it. I promise

jejejejje (:

not really. i maybe get in big truuubl (:

+

ps

Ebbe I want a spaceship please. I know you still reading here. So dont forget ok. getting orbitted is pretty exciting but a spaceship is a way better way to explore the heavens ok. and a much more predictable way of getting there

if you not sure if this is the actual case then I be happy to orbit you with your permission. Just so you can know firsthand how unpredictable that experience can be (:

 

[Suspiria Finucane]

---

Parrish Ashbourne wrote:

---

Suspiria Finucane wrote:

I realize there are many questions and missing some is expected. Here are ones I asked earlier.

---

Suspiria Finucane wrote:

---

Ebbe Linden wrote:

 

Goal is to empower creators to do any content we can (including skeleton), but again, early...

---

Can you say if this refers to in-world empowerment or external program empowerment? In my opinion, the in-world creation aspect of SL is something we've lost. The more in-world creation that is possible, the more attention span you garner.

Imagine how many hours are spent in external programs instead of occupying your virtual world.

---

 

Also;

I was curious if you can say whether the brand Second Life will be on the new product and the old SL would be something like SL classic or SL legacy?

---

 

---

coke classic was one of the biggest marketing success stories ever, may be SL will out do SL2 with the right marketing, I like SL legacy better sounds more Tron like, or how about the SL Matrix

---

The key word is of course marketing. Once the noob market dies for the old platform, the creators will run to the new one. If anyone honestly believes LL will sink the same marketing capital into the old platform that they will the new one, their rose-colored glasses need cleaned.

[Suspiria Finucane]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

---

Suspiria Finucane wrote:

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

 

I strongly suggest that you consult with the Firestorm team about their extra features and include as many of them as you can.

 

---

It's interesting how people are trying to transition power from old SL to the new. No one has announced the new platform specifics so how does anyone know there will be a current viewer type at all? Firestorm may be quasi-popular in the old platform but that doesn't necessitate popularity in the new platform.

 

For all we know the features you speak of are the cause of some of the problems we have in SL today. I would hope LL strives for a standard viewing experience for everyone instead of incompatibility.

 

Why would a creator waste time trying to fix something instead of creating something new for a new world. I thought the idea of a new platform was to get rid of all the hacks, not recreate the same pattern of hacks.

 

---

Why must there be a one size fits all viewer? If that were so important why have preferences in the SL viewer at all?

What is wrong with having a feature set for advanced users and content creators.?  Why not make things easier for us if a lot of new content has to be developed and a lot of legacy content has to be fixed?  Many of the extra features that firestorm offers allows creators to work faster with better quality results

 

 

---

Visual compatibility is much different than one viewer fits all. Your generalization is a misinterpretation. If you think each client has no effect on overall simulator performance, you are mistaken.

I've been a creator for almost 8 years using the LL viewer only. I've yet to see anyone create faster or with better quality due to the viewer. The majority of the work isn't even done in SL using a viewer.

Either way, the new platform will only have one and I'm sure LL will keep it that way. No corporation I know of appreciates renegade factions holding a club over their heads.

 

[Suspiria Finucane]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Suspiria Finucane wrote:

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

Other than invalidating all existing content for which no such agreement could be practically obtained (

creators gone missing

, etc.), this all seems an utter waste of time. It may be the cost of doing business globally, but that doesn't make it less silly.

---

Interesting point and you should include avatars gone missing. How could anyone expect LL to bring in all the inventories of every sign up in SL history to the new platform? I know people who have left SL for years and returned. How will inventories be deemed "worthy" of adding to the new platform? Will there be a request form of some sorts?

 

I know you can't answer these but you sparked the sine wave.

---

Several things here. First, I wasn't particularly advocating that all that ever existed in SL Classic should be imported to BetterWorld, and that goes for accounts, too.

Someday

, however, SL will be shut down, and if there's still some functioning virtual world, I'd like to think some folks whose RL passed might still have their SL identity persist in some form. (Some form of persistence, that is, more veridical than early archives of these forums have been.) Maybe that's maudlin, or history-obsessed.

---

---

You may find this interesting Time Walk has just such a feature planned. They have a somewhat creepy trailer for a deceased Gramndmother talking to her alive grandson in a virtual world. I suppose this may fit some personalities.

 

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

As it happens, even the default access to legacy content is, uh, contentious, and I'm of two minds about it:

On the one hand, I can see the point of current creators wanting to update their back catalog of content to fit the technologies of the new platform before it appears there, rather than suffer a (possibly lossy) automated migration.

On the other hand, from a more legalistic perspective, those creators shouldn't necessarily have any say in the matter. Indeed, the line of commentary to which I was responding was about how Europeans can screw the rest of us by sprinkling TOS-disabling fairy dust. (Seems borderline fraudulent to agree to a ToS that's personally unenforceable, then exploit that special exemption to swindle everybody by selling content one can later just pull away: Ha-ha, suckers!)

---

I suppose greed plays a part in certain creators agendas but if the new platform is a new product and not a revision, why should anything old be "updated"? It seems to me a waste of valuable resources that can be used elsewhere. A new product deserves new creations, not some backwash of old tech.

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Finally, I'd just point out that as technology consumers we're quick to accept the idea that systems should be swapped out, rebuilt from the ground up. I think it was Mies van der Rohe who said that it is not necessary to invent a new architecture every Monday morning. Earlier I speculated about some reasons to start from scratch besides basic engineering failure, but someday it will seem unimaginably primitive (and immoral?) to introduce a whole new virtual word rather than augment what already exists. It's only that we have not yet evolved an aversion to capital punishment of our virtual worlds.

---

I understand your point. VW's are mere babes in the woods and without reinvention, the wolves have quite the meal. Figuratively, you could equate SL to an early civilization. Eating raw meat and wearing skins isn't for me. :matte-motes-agape:

 

 

[Dillon Levenque]

Feel free to orbit me. I have a spacesuit with a helmet and air tanks and everything, and I'm pretty sure I look even cuter in the spacesuit than I do in everyday life. Just give me some advance warning—changing to the spacesuit outfit on the fly is usually no problem but  I have to get the helmet on before I get much above 1000 meters.

After that I can get into situations where suit pressure exceeds air pressure and when that happens getting the helmet seals closed can really be a pain.

:-)

[Gavin Hird]

---

irihapeti wrote:

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

There is also a scenario 1 1/2 and it goes like this:

---

you have pretty much described HiFi

the question for LL and FB and everyone else in (or getting into) the VW space isn't: Why would we clone the HiFi offering?

 

---

My first reactions when I listened to the HiFi presentation were these:

• He is proposing Opensim with Hypergrid – just "better"
• He wants a giant botnet for crypto coin mining (which I suspect is the major revenue stream)
• His proposal will be void of content from day one (and day one is two years out)

LL stands to succed with the Hypergrid route better than anyone else simply because they

1. have the core infrastructure in place
2. the hypergird issues are well understood through the early work LL participated in and from opensim
3. they have a good staff of programmers who undersstand their code base and what needs to be re-engineered
4. they have a pationate customer base
5. there is content as well as established content providers
6. they can start executing on this business model tomorrow without creating massive disruption to their user base like anything else would do (hence this long thread)
7. It solves scalability problems (not all)
8. It resolves most performance issues due to geo location
9. It makes it significantly easier to operate in different cultural and legislative context than the current "California Dreaming" model  

[madjim]

---

Ebbe Linden wrote:

 

We're not ready to talk about this yet. 

---

I think everybody has worked this out by now.

But it's too late, the cat's out of the bag, and you can't stuff it back in. PR disaster or what!

Father "predicts the waldo hand of Peter Gray behind Ebbe's forum postings from now on - if there are any more" Jim